Need for RCIA for someone converting

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Brenda_V

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Hi everyone. A little background first: I have a friend who was Baptised Lutheran and recieved her “first communion” and “confirmation” as a Lutheran but was semi-raised Catholic. Her mother left the Catholic Church when she was a baby because “they” wouldn’t let her non-catholic minister relative baptize her baby (my friend). She has attended Mass off and on for years while growing up and has been talking to her Aunt (mom’s sister) about the Faith and has decided to “join” the Catholic Church. Now here is my question, she called the Parish Office and was told that the only Sacrament she hasn’t participated in yet is Confession, so this am she tried to go (ran out of time - Mass was about to start when it was her turn).

I was shocked and told her that this didn’t sound right, I am thinking that the Parish Office person didn’t quite understand what she was told. I advised my friend to call or drop in at the office and make an appointment with a Priest because the only Sacrament that is valid across Christian denominations is Baptism.

I wanted to know if I was right or if the Parish Office Person was right.

I will let you all know what she finds out as I am sure she will tell me.

Brenda V.
 
Sounds like a miscommunication between your friend and the parish office. And I have to wonder how many people have left the Church or not pursued becoming Catholic because of such miscommunications? It’s a good thing your friend didn’t get to go to confession only to be told by the priest she shouldn’t be there. Can you imagine what that would have done to her, with her thinking it all right and probably not thinking to tell the priest that she was told by the parish office that it was and so on? Yikes indeed! She should talk directly to one of the priests who will no doubt tell her to enroll in RCIA in the fall. In the meantime she can be attending Mass and reading up on Catholic teachings so she will be better prepared when RCIA begins and so she can find a good sponsor before then, too.
 
She has been baptised. So the Parish Officed was partly correct: she does not need the RCIA.
She needs the ceremony: “Reception of Baptized Christians into the Full Communion of the Catholic Church”.
For this: “The baptized Christian is to receive both doctrinal and spiritual preparation, adapted to individual pastoral requirements, for reception into the full communion of the Catholic Church. … Anything that would equate candidates for reception with those who are catechumens is to be absolutely avoided.”
(From The Rites Volume One, Liturgical Press, 1990, ISBN 0-8146-6015-0, page 276.)
 
John Lilburne:
She has been baptised. So the Parish Officed was partly correct: she does not need the RCIA.
She needs the ceremony: “Reception of Baptized Christians in to the Full Communion of the Catholic Church”.
For this: “The baptized Christian is to receive both doctrinal and spiritual preparation, adapted to individual pastoral requirements, for reception into the full communion of the Catholic Church. … Anything that would equate candidates for reception with those who are catechumens is to be absolutely avoided.”
(From The Rites Volume One, Liturgical Press, 1990, ISBN 0-8146-6015-0, page 276.)
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In addition to the ceremony: “Reception of Baptized Christians in to the Full Communion of the Catholic Church”. She needs to be prepared to receive Reconciliation, Receive Holy Communion and Confirmation.
 
John Lilburne:
She has been baptised. So the Parish Officed was partly correct: she does not need the RCIA.
She needs the ceremony: “Reception of Baptized Christians in to the Full Communion of the Catholic Church”.
For this: “The baptized Christian is to receive both doctrinal and spiritual preparation, adapted to individual pastoral requirements, for reception into the full communion of the Catholic Church. … Anything that would equate candidates for reception with those who are catechumens is to be absolutely avoided.”
(From The Rites Volume One, Liturgical Press, 1990, ISBN 0-8146-6015-0, page 276.)
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RCIA is not required, but I’d bet my last dollar that it is NEEDED.

I’m a proponent of craddle Catholics attending RICA at least once in their adulthood.

In currently in RCIA and I can’t count the number of sponsors who have mentioned how much they have gotten out of RCIA. My sponsor is a 65 year old craddle Catholic and she mentioned this to me yesterday.
 
John Lilburne:
She has been baptised. So the Parish Officed was partly correct: she does not need the RCIA.
She needs the ceremony: “Reception of Baptized Christians into the Full Communion of the Catholic Church”.
For this: “The baptized Christian is to receive both doctrinal and spiritual preparation, adapted to individual pastoral requirements, for reception into the full communion of the Catholic Church. … Anything that would equate candidates for reception with those who are catechumens is to be absolutely avoided.”
(From The Rites Volume One, Liturgical Press, 1990, ISBN 0-8146-6015-0, page 276.)
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I’m not sure that is correct. I was a born and brought up Methodist and properly baptised (recognised by the Catholic Church) and I had to go through the RCIA program. RCIA is a program for un-baptised people and baptised people converting to the Catholic Faith.
 
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thistle:
I’m not sure that is correct. I was a born and brought up Methodist and properly baptised (recognised by the Catholic Church) and I had to go through the RCIA program. RCIA is a program for un-baptised people and baptised people converting to the Catholic Faith.
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Actualy thistle, it is my understanding that most Parishes do this out of convenience for all involved. It is very much a matter of available time for those converting or who have never been baptised and for those who teach the RCIA.

I am so excited for my friend and her desire to become Catholic that I really want her to have all her “ducks in a row” so to speak (-:. I am just surprised her Aunt didn’t find it odd as well unless she hadn’t talked to her about the recent events as this all has happened in the last two days.

I can also see my Parish Priest after interviewing her as sort of putting her on a “fast track” to First Communion and Confirmation and not requiring her to take RCIA. Like I said, she was semi-raised Catholic by her Grandma and Aunt. She does need some instruction and I will ask if she would like any of my books that I have to get her started.

Brenda V.
 
Brenda V.:
Actualy thistle, it is my understanding that most Parishes do this out of convenience for all involved. It is very much a matter of available time for those converting or who have never been baptised and for those who teach the RCIA.

I am so excited for my friend and her desire to become Catholic that I really want her to have all her “ducks in a row” so to speak (-:. I am just surprised her Aunt didn’t find it odd as well unless she hadn’t talked to her about the recent events as this all has happened in the last two days.

I can also see my Parish Priest after interviewing her as sort of putting her on a “fast track” to First Communion and Confirmation and not requiring her to take RCIA. Like I said, she was semi-raised Catholic by her Grandma and Aunt. She does need some instruction and I will ask if she would like any of my books that I have to get her started.

Brenda V.
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The “Reception of Baptized Christians into the Full Communion of the Catholic Church” is what I and other converts went through at Easter 1992 while unbaptised went through a baptism ceremony at the same Mass.
However the Reception of Baptised Christians into Full Communion of the Catholic Church is the official ceremony accepting a convert like me into the Church. It is not an instruction program.
Even though a baptised Christian like I was will know more about Christ than an unbaptised person we both nevertheless need full instruction on the Catholic Faith, hence the RCIA program.

As my wife was Catholic I stopped going to my own church and attended Mass with my wife for 10 years before conversion. I did not participate but I probably attended Mass more than many Catholics but being baptised and attending Mass as a non-Catholic didn’t mean I knew a lot about the Catholic Church so the RCIA program, in my opinion, made great sense.

Actually I really enjoyed RCIA and because of that I found out how little my cradle Catholic wife knew about the Faith, even though she is a very devout person. I think converts and reverts know a lot more about the Faith than most cradle Catholics.
 
I’m not sure who to address this to but …

RCIA is GOOD for any Catholic or non-Catholic who wants to know about the Catholic religion.

There are too many Catholics out there who don’t have a clue what their religion is about, what each part of Mass means, how to live a good prayerful life, give a good confession, get the most out of the Eucharist, appreciate the gift Jesus gave us, etc., etc…
Need I go on?

When I come out of RCIA, I will be better catechised than most craddle Catholics.
 
Yes, candidates for full communion are technically supposed to be seperated out, but RCIA is the catch-all that is used. We only have perhaps 5-7 true catechumens in our class and perhaps 30 or so candidates. I worried about this early on but am glad I went thru the program. It made me wonder about how orthodox my parish was but me fears were all for naught.

We actually had an inquirer thinking of joining the next class sit in on our class tonight. I can’t imagine being at that point again. :whacky:
 
In my RCIA class there are 12 of us total. Of those 12, four of them are true Catechumens (although they do have Christian backgrounds and for whatever reason were not baptized), two are baptized into other Christian denominations, and the rest are baptized Catholics who never received First Communion or Confirmation.

Although I was a little frustrated about having to learn basics (I’m a theology student), I am very happy that I went through with the program. I have met some wonderful people, and I’ve really learned a lot as well. It has been wonderful to see those who are unbaptized come to know Christ. The whole experience has really helped me to see things in a different perspective.

Someone also said before that there are so many Catholics who do not even know what the Catholic faith teaches. This is so true. As a theology student at a Catholic university, it amazes me how many Catholics do not know what Immaculate Conception is, what a Sacrament is, are unable to tell you what a mortal and venial sin is, why we go to Mass, or that the Eucharist is TRULY the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ. I agree that RCIA is a good way for ANYBODY to learn about the Catholic faith. It might seem like going back to basics, but I do not think very many people would disagree with me that sometimes discussing the basics is needed very much. It also does not hurt to go over the basics again for those who may already have that knowledge.

For me, going through the RCIA program has really given me the chance to slow down and take the process seriously. I think that going through the entire program can be beneficial to anyone, even if it’s just for being able to share your experience with people who are also going through it. I don’t know if anyone else feels this way, but it can be difficult to talk to people about what you’re feeling, because unless you have had that experience, it can be difficult to understand what it feels like for the person going through it (especially in college when it’s not “cool” to talk about Jesus and God). I feel very blessed to be able to share this experience with others.
 
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LeahInancsi:
RCIA is not required, but I’d bet my last dollar that it is NEEDED.

I’m a proponent of craddle Catholics attending RICA at least once in their adulthood.

In currently in RCIA and I can’t count the number of sponsors who have mentioned how much they have gotten out of RCIA. My sponsor is a 65 year old craddle Catholic and she mentioned this to me yesterday.
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It all depends on the RCIA program. Some of them are so bad it’s a shame tocall them Catholic. It seems you might have gotten one of the good ones.

🙂 I like me the way I am: a cradle Catholic who was catechized at a young age during the growing up years, and continued to learn more about the Faith as she grew.

In any event, cradle Catholics are not required to “go through” RCIA.
 
in answer to OP, the caller should have been referred to the pastor or his delegate, who would invite them for a personal interview to ascertain their position and their needs, and then suggest the appropriate class and process to facilitate their return to the Church. What people say on the phone and what turns out to be the actual situation are usually different. that is also why we demand a certificate or other proof of baptism, paperwork on marriages etc. It is not for a secretary or DRE to make a determination that requires pastoral guidance, and possibly matter for confession. The priest should be the first stop.

Somebody on another post complained about all the rules. The rules are to ensure your rights under canon law and make sure we adhere to it. It sometimes takes 2 or 3 interviews to get all the facts straight. Getting the paperwork should not delay the classes, but the sooner the better. Nothing like coming up on Easter and finding out someone’s baptism is not valid, or there is a previous, possibly valid marriage that was never disclosed.
 
It is my understanding that there is separate classes or some kind of instruction for those baptized who were raised in the Christian faith. This person is a good example of someone who abviously wouldn’t need a full year of RCIA but a ceremony as someone pointed out and maybe a few meetings with the priest to insure they didn’t need any additional instruction.
 
it would be great if we had the resources for separate classes for:

the unbaptized undergoing true conversion, have never heard the proclamation of the Gospel, have no knowledge of Christian doctrine and practice

the unbaptized members of Catholic families who have been raised in Catholic homes but due to circumstances never received the sacrament.

the baptized Catholics who have never received any instruction in the faith, are in homes where it is not practiced, or even have been raised in other religions

the baptized members of other denominations who have received a thorough grounding in Christian doctrine, are highly conversant in Sacred Scripture, know and love Jesus Christ and have always tried to live by his commands, and are seeking the fullness of Truth in full communion with the Catholic Church

adult baptized Catholics who attend Mass and receive the sacraments regularly, raise Catholic children in good, stable marriages, are active parishioners, but have never for whatever reason been confirmed.

and for all these classes (and everyone who falls somewhere in between) bear in mind we have children, teens and adults.

add the 800 or so children and youth in regular CCD, communion and Confirmation classes, not to mention parent meetings for sacraments, baptismal preparation, marriage preparation, and adult education, Bible studies etc.

there are not enough rooms in the building or days in the week or catechists for separate classes for everyone specifically tailored to their needs and where they are “in their faith journey”.

The RCIA rites and manual specifically provides for this reality when it reminds us that there is a benefit in everyone, at least by age group, attending the same class, as those more in tune with the faith are witnesses to those less familiar with life in Christ. There is a definite benefit in preparing children for baptism together with those preparing for first communion, and the rites and guides for their preparation take this into account. There are combined rites just for this purpose for the baptized and the catechumens.

They key is always respecting the special status of the baptized, and ensuring the catechumens receive all the rites and blessings to which they are entitled to aid them on their journey.

forgot to mention all these classes must be provided, in many parishes in at least English and Spanish, and often in Vietnamese or other languages as well. pedagogically it makes sense to group children and teens by age group, and all groups by preferred language. Just because someone can speak and get along in English does not mean that religious instruction should be in English. Ideally instruction should be in the mother language, the language in which we pray, in which we think and internalize.
 
annie, you seem to know the score! 🙂 You are so right about resources. This is pretty much what I was told by our priest. Something else to think about besides room is getting people to volunteer. Some parishes have real trouble finding enough individuals to teach these classes. I recently volunteered to train alter servers and my priest was very happy that someone would step up to the plate but he said “I’ve had so many people say they will do this but then let things slip and not follow through”
 
Thank you to everyone who has posted on this subject. I want to especially thank Puzzleannie because she said exactly what I was thinking. So I did right to advise her to make an appointment with one of our Priests so he could help her figure out exactly what she needed to do.

I haven’t seen her since Tuesday when she told me all of this so I am hoping all is okay. She has two children, one school age, one pre-school age and she volunteers a lot in the classroom so just about anything can have happened.

Brenda V.
 
I’m very grateful the unbaptized are not separated any further than they are. The three Scrutinies are going to be hard for me in the coming weeks.

I won’t minimize baptism by saying it’s only a technicality, but for me it is. My Christian upbringing has been much better than baptized Catholics who never darkened the door of a church after their baptism and many who attend Mass every week. My situation is not something I’m proud of to say the least. As an adult, I should have addressed the matter long ago, but I’ve had to do it alone and it’s taken the maturity and wisdom I didn’t have when I was younger.
 
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LeahInancsi:
I’m very grateful the unbaptized are not separated any further than they are. The three Scrutinies are going to be hard for me in the coming weeks.

I won’t minimize baptism by saying it’s only a technicality, but for me it is. My Christian upbringing has been much better than baptized Catholics who never darkened the door of a church after their baptism and many who attend Mass every week. My situation is not something I’m proud of to say the least. As an adult, I should have addressed the matter long ago, but I’ve had to do it alone and it’s taken the maturity and wisdom I didn’t have when I was younger.
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Leahlnancs, You said a mouthful here. Often times with age comes wisdom and the ability to ignore those naysayers around us. I will pray for you as you go through the Scrutinies and come into the Church.

Brenda V.
 
RCIA is a relatively recent program.

The Church used to have many more conversions than they do now… so what kind of pre-RCIA program was in effect back before the 1960’s?
 
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