NEED HELP/advice for LOH morning prayer

[Dicerning]

Hello,

I am to lead morning prayer this saturday. I am in the united states and I notice it is our lady of Gudelupe.

I will be leading using CHRISTISN PRAYER.

1. I see the only thing listed in the proper of the saint is the closing prayer. Do I use the common of the BVM for everything else or do I use Saturday of 2nd week of advent?
   2)Can I just use Saturday 2nd week of Advent for everything and close with the prayer in the proper?

ANy advice as to exactly how to do this would be appreciated.

 

[Gaudium86]

I have seen internet sources differ as to how Memorials such as Our Lady of Guadalupe are to be prayed in the Liturgy of the Hours. I go by the instructions given in “Discovering Prayer,” a book-length treatment of the LOTH posted at:

prayer.rosaryshop.com/discoveringPrayer.pdf

Of course, this is not an official source, and I would be delighted if someone could confirm or refute the following based on an official document.

Following the instructions given on page 35-36 of the book, for Morning Prayer you would use 1) the regular psalms and gospel canticle from the Psalter for the 2nd Saturday of Advent; 2) antiphons, reading, responsory, antiphon for the Canticle of Zechariah, and intercessions from the Common of the BVM; and 3) and the closing prayer from the Proper of the Seasons.

More generally, for Memorials, one always uses the psalms and canticle in the psalter. For other elements, one uses the Proper of the Seasons and the relevant Common, with elements given in the Proper always trumping those given in the Common.

As I said, I have seen different interpretations. For example, the website of the Federation of Diocesan Liturgical Commissions website states that “In Morning and Evening Prayer, apart from anything provided in the Proper, everything from the reading to the Intercessions inclusive, may be taken either from the common appropriate to the saint being celebrated, or from the current weekday in the Four Week Psalter.” (fdlc.org/Liturgy_Resources/Liturgy_of_the_Hours6.htm#MEMORIALS) In light of this, I am interested to see what other people have to say.

Best of luck, and God bless you for spreading the LOTH!

 

[Dicerning]

I have seen internet sources differ as to how Memorials such as Our Lady of Guadalupe are to be prayed in the Liturgy of the Hours. I go by the instructions given in “Discovering Prayer,” a book-length treatment of the LOTH posted at:

prayer.rosaryshop.com/discoveringPrayer.pdf

Of course, this is not an official source, and I would be delighted if someone could confirm or refute the following based on an official document.

Following the instructions given on page 35-36 of the book, for Morning Prayer you would use **1) the regular psalms and gospel canticle from the Psalter for the 2nd Saturday of Advent; 2) antiphons, reading, responsory, antiphon for the Canticle of Zechariah, and intercessions from the Common of the BVM; and 3) and the closing prayer from the Proper of the Seasons. **
More generally, for Memorials, one always uses the psalms and canticle in the psalter. For other elements, one uses the Proper of the Seasons and the relevant Common, with elements given in the Proper always trumping those given in the Common.

Best of luck, and God bless you for spreading the LOTH!

1. There is no Psalter or canticle in CHristian prayer for 2nd saturday of advent.
2. This makes sense to me since the comon of the BVN reverts us back to the psalter SUnday week I
3. SInce this memorial always falls in Advent why is there a closing prayer in the proper of the saint if it were to never be used?

Can’t I use Antiphons from the common of BVM and psalter from SUnday week I and closing prayer for the common of the saint? The common of the BVM directs us to Sunday week I for the psalter. Which after the Psalms and Canticle I would then use the common of the BVM.

I guess my question is…Does Memorial of our lady of Guadelupe trump Saturday week II of advent? If so shouldn’t I be using the BVM and close with the proper?

 

[Gaudium86]

1. There is no Psalter or canticle in CHristian prayer for 2nd saturday of advent.
2. This makes sense to me since the comon of the BVN reverts us back to the psalter SUnday week I
3. SInce this memorial always falls in Advent why is there a closing prayer in the proper of the saint if it were to never be used?

Can’t I use Antiphons from the common of BVM and psalter from SUnday week I and closing prayer for the common of the saint? The common of the BVM directs us to Sunday week I for the psalter. Which after the Psalms and Canticle I would then use the common of the BVM.

I guess my question is…Does Memorial of our lady of Guadelupe trump Saturday week II of advent? If so shouldn’t I be using the BVM and close with the proper?

1. You’re quite right that there are not psalms/canticle specific to the 2nd Saturday of Advent. What I meant and should have made more clear is that you pray the same psalms/canticle that you would pray on the 2nd Saturday of Advent, which are the psalms/canticle of Saturday Week II of the 4-Week Psalter (page 845 of Christian Prayer).
2. The Common of the BVM does indeed refer one back to Sunday Week I in the Psalter for Morning Prayer, but I am under the impression (please correct me if I am mistaken) that for Memorials such as Our Lady of Guadalupe, you use the daily psalms/canticle from the 4-Week Psalter (see point 1). On Solemnities such as today, the Feast of the Immaculate Conception, you WOULD follow the Common of the BVM’s instruction to use Sunday Week I for Morning Prayer. For Memorials, however, you do not.
3. Again, I confused you in my original post. Where I said “Proper of the Seasons,” I meant “Proper of the Saints.” So you would use the closing prayer on page 1340 in the Proper of the Saints - NOT the Proper of the Seasons.

To make things relate to Christian Prayer, you would use Antiphon 1 on p. 1372, Psalm 92 on p. 845, Antiphon 2 on 1373, the Canticle on p. 847, Antiphon 3 on p. 1373, and Psalm 8 on p. 848. The reading, responsory, canticle antiphon, and intercessions would come from the Common of the BVM on 1373-1374. The closing prayer would come from the Proper of the SAINTS on 1340.

Sorry for the confusion. Hope this helps!

 

[Gaudium86]

I have seen internet sources differ as to how Memorials such as Our Lady of Guadalupe are to be prayed in the Liturgy of the Hours. I go by the instructions given in “Discovering Prayer,” a book-length treatment of the LOTH posted at:

prayer.rosaryshop.com/discoveringPrayer.pdf

Of course, this is not an official source, and I would be delighted if someone could confirm or refute the following based on an official document.

Following the instructions given on page 35-36 of the book, for Morning Prayer you would use 1) the regular psalms and gospel canticle from the Psalter for the 2nd Saturday of Advent; 2) antiphons, reading, responsory, antiphon for the Canticle of Zechariah, and intercessions from the Common of the BVM; and 3) and the closing prayer from the Proper of the Seasons.

More generally, for Memorials, one always uses the psalms and canticle in the psalter. For other elements, one uses the Proper of the Seasons and the relevant Common, with elements given in the Proper always trumping those given in the Common.

As I said, I have seen different interpretations. For example, the website of the Federation of Diocesan Liturgical Commissions website states that “In Morning and Evening Prayer, apart from anything provided in the Proper, everything from the reading to the Intercessions inclusive, may be taken either from the common appropriate to the saint being celebrated, or from the current weekday in the Four Week Psalter.” (fdlc.org/Liturgy_Resources/Liturgy_of_the_Hours6.htm#MEMORIALS) In light of this, I am interested to see what other people have to say.

Best of luck, and God bless you for spreading the LOTH!

As I cannot edit the above post now, I have made corrections below. Sorry for the confusion; hope this clarifies:

I have seen internet sources differ as to how Memorials such as Our Lady of Guadalupe are to be prayed in the Liturgy of the Hours. I go by the instructions given in “Discovering Prayer,” a book-length treatment of the LOTH posted at:

prayer.rosaryshop.com/discoveringPrayer.pdf

Of course, this is not an official source, and I would be delighted if someone could confirm or refute the following based on an official document.

Following the instructions given on page 35-36 of the book, for Morning Prayer you would use 1) the regular psalms and gospel canticle from the Psalter for the 2nd Saturday of Advent; because there are not psalms/canticle specific to the 2nd Saturday of Advent, you use those for Saturday Week II in the 4-Week Psalter 2) antiphons, reading, responsory, antiphon for the Canticle of Zechariah, and intercessions from the Common of the BVM; and 3) and the closing prayer from the Proper of the **SAINTS.
**
More generally, for Memorials, one always uses the psalms and canticle in the psalter. For other elements, one uses the Proper of the **SAINTS **and the relevant Common, with elements given in the Proper of the SAINTS always trumping those given in the Common.

As I said, I have seen different interpretations. For example, the website of the Federation of Diocesan Liturgical Commissions website states that “In Morning and Evening Prayer, apart from anything provided in the Proper, everything from the reading to the Intercessions inclusive, may be taken eitherfrom the common appropriate to the saint being celebrated, or from the current weekday in the Four Week Psalter.” (fdlc.org/Liturgy_Resources/Liturgy_of_the_Hours6.htm#MEMORIALS) In light of this, I am interested to see what other people have to say.

Best of luck, and God bless you for spreading the LOTH

 

[Dicerning]

OK I think I am getting it. ( I appreciate it BTW)

Psalms out of the week II. ANtiphons for those psalms from the commons of BVM.

Readings from Advent Week II (sat) and closing from the Proper of OLG.

HOWEVER that is some serious page flipping. Would it be OK to use Advent week II with Psalter week II and close with the common?

 

[Gaudium86]

Psalms out of the week II. ANtiphons for those psalms from the commons of BVM.

Readings from Advent Week II (sat) and closing from the Proper of OLG.

Almost. The reading would come from the Common of the BVM, page 1373. Even though we’re in Advent, nothing comes from the Proper of the Seasons.

The reading, responsory, canticle antiphon, and intercessions would come from the Common of the BVM on 1373-1374. The closing prayer would come from the Proper of the SAINTS on 1340

Put another way, the psalms and canticle come from Psalter Week II, the closing comes from the Proper of OLG, and EVERYTHING else comes from the Common of the BVM.

HOWEVER that is some serious page flipping. Would it be OK to use Advent week II with Psalter week II and close with the common?

You right, it is a lot of page flipping, and I could see how it could be distracting to keep announcing the page changes Since I assume you’re praying with a group of laypeople, you don’t have to pray the LOTH at all, so nothing is stopping you from altering it to meet your needs. As Benedictine Dom John Chapman used to say, “Pray as you can; do not pray as you cannot.”

In the alternative, you could print out the psalms/canticle before Saturday. This link to Universalis.com has them. universalis.com/20091212/lauds.htm. With a printout in hand and your copy of Christian Prayer opened to the Common of the BVM, you could avoid most of the page flipping. For that matter, if you added the Canticle of Zechariah and closing prayer to the printout, you could avoid all page flipping whatsoever.

 

[FrDavid96]

The feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe was only “recently” added to the calendar in the US.

The supplement to the Liturgy of the Hours (1992 is the most recent) has the text for this feast.

The supplement (which is an official text) says to use
Morning:
Sunday Week I for the psalm and canticle.
(remember it’s only a Saturday this year by coincidence)
Reading Zach 2:14-17 morning
There is a proper closing prayer

There is an evening prayer, but since it’s Saturday, 2nd Sunday of Advent, 1st Vespers would take precedence. Closing prayer is same as morning prayer

I don’t have the Mass text handy, but the prayers from the office are usually the opening prayer of the Mass–that’s probably the case here. I mention that because if you have a missallette handy, you can use that for reference.

For the rest of morning prayer, use the common of the Blessed Virgin Mary–that’s what is indicated in the supplement.

Hope this helps.

edit: PS the supplement also has proper intercessions, but using these, as opposed to what’s in the Common BVM wouldn’t be strictly required.

In short, use the common of the BVM, Psalter Sunday week I, and the opening prayer from Mass as the closing prayer for the office.