Need help; battle against marijuana

[Leela]

No. Alchohol leads to more alchohol. Not other drugs.

And marijuana leads to other drugs rather than more marijuana?

In what sense is marijuana a gateway drug? I assume it means that people who try marijuana are more likely to try other drugs than those who have not. Isn’t the same true about alcohol? Aren’t people who have smoked a cigarette more likely to smoke pot than those who have never smoked a cigarette? In general, isn’t someone who has done one illegal thing more likely to do another illegal thing than one who has never done anything illegal? Are you suggesting that there is something about the nature of THC that makes people want to use other drugs?

I have a friend who’s 18 who’s facing a sexual batttery charge because he was baked and made out with a chick against her will.

People do such things on various drugs and on no drugs at all. The question is, are such stories more likely to follow from marijuana use or alcohol use?

Best,
Leela

 

[teadough]

I disagree with you. Having lived in Humboldt County (nothern California) part of the so-called Emerald Triange where marijuana growing has sadly become deeply immersed in the economy and culture, growers and others have continued to genetically alter components of marijuana in order to make it more potent. They are quite like the cigarette companies taht engaged in practices to alter the effects of nicotene years ago in order to boost the addictive character of tobacco,

Furthermore, virtually every institution in Humboldt County was under a state of seige as rampant drug use was destroying families, schools and the workplace.

One hopeful sign was that the number of young adults who had grown up in a marijuana based culture were going through recovery programs and gradually entering the various churches.

Perhaps one of the best things we can do is work to oppose efforts to legalize marijuana. It’s not the harmless drug proponents claim it to be.

`
You know why Humbolt County became like it is? Because marijuana is illegal. It has nothing to do with the herb itself. Here is the thing. When you have an illegal substance, you are more than likely going to attract other illegal activities to provide the services and distribution needed for said substance. That is the whole point of a lot of peoples argument. Of course someone will always counter with “well, marijuana now, whats next? Cocaine?”.

 

[teadough]

I And by the way, marijuana addictions are NOT less dangerous that nicotine addictions, simply because you smoke marijuana with tobacco.

nobody in the U.S mixes marijuana with tobacco anymore. The people who normally mix the two are ones who would normally smoke tobacco by itself. Of course this is regional depending on what country you live in.

 

[teadough]

When people smoke marijuana it is to get high. Well people who enjoy getting high tend to not settle with marijuana. They seek “better drugs” to get higher.

That isn’t true at all and is an old propaganda promotion from back in the day. If marijuana wasn’t illegal you would not have people coming into the possibility of having contact with other types of drugs because the fact remains that one illegal activity normally attracts another. Make herb legal or even decriminalize it to a certain degree and you will see less of a chance of someone who smokes herb coming into contact with another sort of drug that a marijuana dealer may have on hand.

I have a friend who’s still screwed up to this day because he went down this path. Again, comparing it to cigarrets and alchohol doesn’t make it ok. If it were up to me, none of them would be legal. They’re nothng but a plague to health and the well being of society.

 

[teadough]

The gateway argument against marijuana is a bad one since there is alcohol is the biggest gateway drug by far, but if you think alcohol should also be illegal, then that is a different story. You are at least being consistent. But you should consider that given that there is a demand for these substances, the criminalization of these drugs has been “nothing but a plague to the health and well being of society.” That doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t do what can be done to reduce demand for harmful substances and promote responsible use of drugs such as alcohol, cigarrettes, and canibus. But our focus on the supply side has created an expensive war against very very lucrative crime. This war has a lot of collateral damage and has created vastly inflated prices that have made it possible for crime to pay and pay well.

Best,
Leela

Great points!! I whole heartedly agree that Alcohol is more of a gateway drug. A gateway to all types of behaviors as well. Sexual promiscuity is high on the top of the list.

 

[HyeDetroit]

How are you supposed to combat a plant that you can grow basically anywhere? There’s a reason they call it weed, it is hardy and will grow in a variety of environments.
People want the drug. The demand will never go down. Making it illegal is an expensive choice. If people want to smoke themselves stupid, it’s their own choice.

Anything can be addictive.
Food: look at our obesity problem.
Tobacco: look at the # of people dying from various forms of cancer
Sex: look at all the politicians, celebrities, and others who have been caught in affairs.
Money: just look at wall st.

 

[teadough]

People do such things on various drugs and on no drugs at all. The question is, are such stories more likely to follow from marijuana use or alcohol use?

Best,
Leela

Exactly!!

Of course there was that one anti-drug TV campaign that came out a couple years ago that portrayed that exact scenario as described earlier and I always thought it was just some new propaganda.

 

[da_nolo]

Our educators are doing a fine job of that all by themselves.

Other than that, marijuana should be legalized since the effects of the existing societal sanctions upon society as a whole are far more dangerous and deadly than anything the drug could ever do, and as Catholics we can’t ignore the repercussions of societal ignorance and prejudice, nor the acquiescence to that ignorance and prejudice.

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deadly is not standing up and doing anything about it. marijuana has countless contribution to gluttony and sloth. both deadly sins that tear us away from God and the people around us. there is no middle, no less bad, least evil, or slightly okay or better. only ONE GOOD. As Catholics we stand as whole in order to protect the whole. not let some thing slip by because it is not as important or least harmful. that in itself is sloth and damaging to our simple being.

Everyone seems disinterested and lazy to this issue simply because it doesn’t apply to them or they think it’s “no big deal”. that’s what is upsetting the most. at least there are people to oppose the other crude that is going on, but with this? like no body cares about Truth anymore simply because it’s not that big of a deal. sorry pal, but the even one foul is wrong and even one personal addiction could cause harm to your own peace. kind of like the rich merchant of whom Jesus asked to give up his possessions. even one little thing can explode into something that takes you off the road.

in the end it’s all gluttony and that’s addiction. in the end it still needs to be opposed.

 

[teadough]

Everyone seems disinterested and lazy to this issue simply because it doesn’t apply to them or they think it’s “no big deal”. that’s what is upsetting the most…

`
No, actually, a lot of people are educated on said issue and realized that the years of “reefer madness” are a long gone.

As Catholics we stand as whole in order to protect the whole. not let some thing slip by because it is not as important or least harmful.

As Catholics we are still obliged to follow the laws set place in whatever part of the world you live in, and in some places marijuana is legal, so there is no “stand as a whole” on the issue of marijuana unless you’re only pertaining to Catholics in the U.S

I hate to break it to you, but Marijuana is slowly becoming decriminalized and it is happening and has been happening for some time. Im not saying there is no hope for the cause you believe it, but I do hope you realized that the ball has been set in motion for a long time because people are being educated about the realities of marijuana.

 

[da_nolo]

I agree. I have much more concern for alcohol abuse than abuse of canibus. Alcohol and caffeine are drugs too!

I don’t think use of either canibus or alcohol should be considered a crime. Prohibition of marijuana and other drugs has had some very nasty results just as it did when we experimented with prohibition of alcohol.
Best,
Leela

Please explain how…the prohibition of marijuana is NOTHING like alc. trust me I am a mafia BUFF! I studied the underworld for most my life. people try to connect the two, however if you do that then you must realize that it is in favor of keeping it illegal. illegal sales of alc. did not stop once prohibition was over, infact it still occurs today!! why? taxes! it is cheaper to buy it under the table any day of the week. the difference of coarse is that most of it is stolen or bought from distributors in states (or countries) that sell it cheaper. Something that is on going trouble in UK right now. even tobacco can be found through the underground. what people don’t realize that it’s not just some drug dealer and a guy with a gun, it’s groups of people working together in order to make a profit and less amount of costs. Plus the ‘black market’ consists of both illegal goods and legal goods. There have been moments in U.S. history where you could even find food stamps on the ‘black market’. Legalizing marijuana would NOT destroy the illegal activities behind it. It would only change it.

How would it change? well most people who smoke pot are not using it for medicinal reasons, however the huge debate is to make pot treated like medicine. well guess what, that requires a doctors note and okay then and sold from behind the counter from your local drug store. NOT a dispensary of any kind that currently has NO regulations. (please note that U.S. has a horrible history in regulating business. it is not until corruption is found or someone gets hurt will there be reasonable regulation and that right there is total and complete stupidity!) Since I live in cali, im in the center of the mess and when Californians were allowed (with the medicinal card required in possession) to obtain marijuana, my class mates were passing out numbers and contacts to doctors who would give such cards out to individuals with ZERO medical problems. I see no change in that as the main reason anyone uses marijuana is to get HIGH!

 

[da_nolo]

Good post!!!

I notice that the article talks about the admittance numbers could very well be repeat patients. I also notice that the article states that those being admitted report use of exceptionally high dosages of the drug, over long periods of time. I also wonder if those reporting psychosis started using the drug in the formitive years of brain development (specifically, adolesence).

I’d be interested to see data about how most of the users in the United States use it. Moderately, in small doses, and spaced far apart. Anything to an extreme is bad, even water. Drinking too much water can kill you. Smoking too much pot over long periods of time can drive your brain over the deep end.

If you study human history and biology…there is no such thing as moderation. you are in taking a substance that is not created normally withing you, nor contains normal reactions to your body. that ‘high’ is a poison that your body is reacting to. it causes your body to act biologically abnormal. just like any other substance, that harms your body regardless to whether or not someone likes it or not.

Now you bring up the question about brain development during adolescence. Perhaps that can help create the cause and I would give the simple statement that could very well be the situation. I am curious as to why, however? I hope there is no attempt to separate adult years vs teen years and state one is okay vs the opposite not okay. after all since when does adolescence ever listen and agree to wait until a certain age in order to do something? they don’t wait to take a drink and won’t wait for sex…they won’t wait for drugs. all they want is that high, as would adults. so, again, there is no in between or area of gray…there could never be.

 

[da_nolo]

What do you mean by a gateway drug?

Cigarrettes and alcohol aren’t “gateway drugs?”

many marijuana users have taken to smoking cigarettes.

also our bodies over times also become numb to what we do. fighters become numb to pain (though there are still pain to be felt), alcoholics need heavier alcohol and more in order to get drunk, and the same is true for getting high. why? it destroys your nerve systems and eventually what you feel is not the same. because of that, individuals strive for a bigger and better high. it’s similar towards why people start with one cigarette and call themselves ‘moderate smokers’, but still they move into one - two packs a day. same reason why heroine addicts start with one use, to every weekend, to every day.
so you get the development of the pot head.

 

[da_nolo]

The gateway argument against marijuana is a bad one since there is alcohol is the biggest gateway drug by far, but if you think alcohol should also be illegal, then that is a different story. You are at least being consistent. But you should consider that given that there is a demand for these substances, the criminalization of these drugs has been “nothing but a plague to the health and well being of society.” That doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t do what can be done to reduce demand for harmful substances and promote responsible use of drugs such as alcohol, cigarrettes, and canibus. But our focus on the supply side has created an expensive war against very very lucrative crime. This war has a lot of collateral damage and has created vastly inflated prices that have made it possible for crime to pay and pay well.

Best,
Leela

you ask people to be responsible with how they use a substance and argue that legalization of cannabis (such as alc. & cigarettes) could help. however alc. is still a highest factor in car collisions, as thousands kids drink themselves to death. cigarettes still take countless lives regardless our knowledge about them and high taxation. legalizing the substance will do nothing but make cannabis worse. to create responsibility you do not take away a restriction. it’s like raising a child. you can’t expect that child to learn and develop responsibility if you do not teach it and do nothing to restrict or enforce such teachings.

 

[da_nolo]

`
You know why Humbolt County became like it is? Because marijuana is illegal. It has nothing to do with the herb itself. Here is the thing. When you have an illegal substance, you are more than likely going to attract other illegal activities to provide the services and distribution needed for said substance. That is the whole point of a lot of peoples argument. Of course someone will always counter with “well, marijuana now, whats next? Cocaine?”.

that doesn’t make sense when cigarette companies have been doing the same thing and have been legal for centuries.

food companies have been doing the same as well. injecting animals with hormones in order to develop bigger animals = more meat.

farming products have developed several concerns over the past several decades…maybe even further! pesticides among other chemicals are added to not just keep bugs out, but enhance the plant’s production and growth (kind of like miracle grow for grass). many scientists/farmers have attempted to change cellular make up in order to produce the juiciest and biggest fruit/vegetable.

farmers higher illegal migrant workers to try to cheapen costs and raise revenue.

remember Enron? a legal corporation knee deep in illegal activities!

this is nothing new in the business world and will occur no mater what business your in. whether it’s legal or illegal…it wont matter. might as well keep that sin, that temptation away form the legal business world all together.

 

[da_nolo]

`
No, actually, a lot of people are educated on said issue and realized that the years of “reefer madness” are a long gone.

As Catholics we are still obliged to follow the laws set place in whatever part of the world you live in, and in some places marijuana is legal, so there is no “stand as a whole” on the issue of marijuana unless you’re only pertaining to Catholics in the U.S

I hate to break it to you, but Marijuana is slowly becoming decriminalized and it is happening and has been happening for some time. Im not saying there is no hope for the cause you believe it, but I do hope you realized that the ball has been set in motion for a long time because people are being educated about the realities of marijuana.

last I checked the law does not say we have to accept what is law. last I checked laws can change if the people demand it as well. last I checked, we were obligated to follow the laws of God, and not surrender ourselves to what man desires. so yes, it should be Catholics AS A WHOLE, to understand the stand against marijuana and to ensure that they themselves don’t use it as well as ensure that their friends/family understand why not to use/support it. After all we are supposed to copy the Saints, and follow Christ into heaven. They didn’t give up so why should WE!?!?!?! There are countless Saints to disobey a law set in a country and in threat of popularity. heck, what you think our earliest brothers and sisters did when Christianity was illegal? think they gave up? NO.

You think we are bending over or giving up on the fight against abortion? NO. did we give up against nazism? NO. so what makes this any different? just because it looks different, feels different, and has a different effect does not make it okay nor less desirable to defeat.

I understand the ball has been moving and that’s why I started this post. sadly most you hear in media and normally find elsewhere is the pros and everyone for it. I’m searching for others who are like me and are against it. I could not find that before unfortunately and now I have a desire to create a group if I am still unable to find one.

 

[Leela]

I understand the ball has been moving and that’s why I started this post. sadly most you hear in media and normally find elsewhere is the pros and everyone for it. I’m searching for others who are like me and are against it. I could not find that before unfortunately and now I have a desire to create a group if I am still unable to find one.

Is your group also going to stand against all alcohol use?

 

[teadough]

last I checked the law does not say we have to accept what is law. last I checked laws can change if the people demand it as well. last I checked, we were obligated to follow the laws of God, and not surrender ourselves to what man desires. so yes, it should be Catholics AS A WHOLE, to understand the stand against marijuana and to ensure that they themselves don’t use it as well as ensure that their friends/family understand why not to use/support it. After all we are supposed to copy the Saints, and follow Christ into heaven. They didn’t give up so why should WE!?!?!?! There are countless Saints to disobey a law set in a country and in threat of popularity. heck, what you think our earliest brothers and sisters did when Christianity was illegal? think they gave up? NO.

You think we are bending over or giving up on the fight against abortion? NO. did we give up against nazism? NO. so what makes this any different? just because it looks different, feels different, and has a different effect does not make it okay nor less desirable to defeat.

I understand the ball has been moving and that’s why I started this post. sadly most you hear in media and normally find elsewhere is the pros and everyone for it. I’m searching for others who are like me and are against it. I could not find that before unfortunately and now I have a desire to create a group if I am still unable to find one.

`
I don’t think you understood what I was saying in my earlier post and I have no idea why you even bring up abortion or the other things because it has nothing to do with what I was trying to say. Sorry if I was confusing. I will try again.

As Catholics we are obligated to follow the laws in the U.S(this does not mean you can do whatever you want in the eyes of God just because it is a law. That isn’t the point here). As of now marijuana is not legal. If it does indeed become legal one day, and you’re Catholic, then you can partake if you choose to do so depending on what the law states in regard to usage. And yes, you can fight to overturn a law if it comes to play just like you mentioned with abortion but comparing abortion to being legal in the U.S to marijuana is not even in the same category.

Why not fight against having Alcohol overturned? I mean…it kills more people than marijuana ever will Why not tobacco?

 

[Leela]

last I checked the law does not say we have to accept what is law. last I checked laws can change if the people demand it as well. last I checked, we were obligated to follow the laws of God, and not surrender ourselves to what man desires…

According to Romans 13 there is a law that says you have to follow the law. Obama rules by define authority:

1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

 

[teadough]

that doesn’t make sense when cigarette companies have been doing the same thing and have been legal for centuries.

food companies have been doing the same as well. injecting animals with hormones in order to develop bigger animals = more meat.

farming products have developed several concerns over the past several decades…maybe even further! pesticides among other chemicals are added to not just keep bugs out, but enhance the plant’s production and growth (kind of like miracle grow for grass). many scientists/farmers have attempted to change cellular make up in order to produce the juiciest and biggest fruit/vegetable.

farmers higher illegal migrant workers to try to cheapen costs and raise revenue.

remember Enron? a legal corporation knee deep in illegal activities!

this is nothing new in the business world and will occur no mater what business your in. whether it’s legal or illegal…it wont matter. might as well keep that sin, that temptation away form the legal business world all together.

I have no idea what you are even talking about and don’t see how it relates to my response about marijuana in Humbolt County.

 

[teadough]

According to Romans 13 there is a law that says you have to follow the law. Obama rules by define authority:

1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

right. And this doesn’t mean we, as Catholics, have to partake in certain things just because they are legal.

Examples:

1.Im married. Strip clubs are legal. should I go to one tonight and get drunk? Probably not. What about just checking out some internet porn? Nope!!

1. I live in NC. casino slot machines are illegal. Can I have some slot machines in my basement or open a store and make money off of them? No!! However, the state of Nevada has different rules. Catholic Churches have raffles and all sorts of stuff all the time. What about the people with a gambling problem? should all gambling cease on their behalf?