Need help; battle against marijuana

[karoleck]

last I checked the law does not say we have to accept what is law. last I checked laws can change if the people demand it as well. last I checked, we were obligated to follow the laws of God, and not surrender ourselves to what man desires. so yes, it should be Catholics AS A WHOLE, to understand the stand against marijuana and to ensure that they themselves don’t use it as well as ensure that their friends/family understand why not to use/support it. After all we are supposed to copy the Saints, and follow Christ into heaven. They didn’t give up so why should WE!?!?!?! There are countless Saints to disobey a law set in a country and in threat of popularity. heck, what you think our earliest brothers and sisters did when Christianity was illegal? think they gave up? NO.

You think we are bending over or giving up on the fight against abortion? NO. did we give up against nazism? NO. so what makes this any different? just because it looks different, feels different, and has a different effect does not make it okay nor less desirable to defeat.

I understand the ball has been moving and that’s why I started this post. sadly most you hear in media and normally find elsewhere is the pros and everyone for it. I’m searching for others who are like me and are against it. I could not find that before unfortunately and now I have a desire to create a group if I am still unable to find one.

Good point,I too cannot see any good coming from the use of smoking pot.The whole issue of using Marijuana is linked to a drug culture.Christ’s followers should adopt a Christian Culture or Catholic Culture.Comparing the excess use of alchohol and the use of a drug like marijuana is rather stupid.Two wrongs do not make a right.Jesus turned water into wine,He also used wine at the last supper–so if Jesus saw this as a good, then a moderate use is good.St.Paul even recommends it as being good for the digestive system.NOWHERE is there an endorsement in Scripture to smoke marijuana!

The Catechism points to the fact that the use of marijuana (as an illicid drug) is not desirable and is even stronger in condemnation to those who those who push it.I would say that those who on this thread “push” for it’s use;should examine their motives;as they are on a dangerous moral position.

How a state or a country deals with how the offenders are dealt with–well that is another subject.Personally I think that first time offenders should have compusory treatment,decriminalization in my view is just capitulating to an evil.No different to legal prostitution,abortion,sex shops,same sex marriages etc.The road to hell is wide–and many take it.Catholics should stand for a counter cuture–against a drug culture.!

I can speak from personal experience,as I adopted the drug culture for over two years.Through the Mercy of God,His grace helped me to see the reality that God is.To deny that there is not a drug culure; that goes with dope smoking is to state a falsehood–I wonder why?perhaps it is either ignorance or a denial of truth.

 

[karoleck]

right. And this doesn’t mean we, as Catholics, have to partake in certain things just because they are legal.

Examples:

1.Im married. Strip clubs are legal. should I go to one tonight and get drunk? Probably not. What about just checking out some internet porn? Nope!!

1. I live in NC. casino slot machines are illegal. Can I have some slot machines in my basement or open a store and make money off of them? No!! However, the state of Nevada has different rules. Catholic Churches have raffles and all sorts of stuff all the time. What about the people with a gambling problem? should all gambling cease on their behalf?

Right on the button!! A Catholic Culture or a Judaic/Christian culture is what we should strive for and push for social laws that uphold it.A drug culture is bad news!

 

[Leela]

Right on the button!! A Catholic Culture or a Judaic/Christian culture is what we should strive for and push for social laws that uphold it.A drug culture is bad news!

Well, yeah, of course a drug culture is bad news. But, “Drugs are bad” is not the answer. Drugs aren’t essentially good or bad any more than technology is essentially good or bad. Do you take an aspirin for a headache? Does your cup of coffee help wake you up in the morning? Does a glass of wine help you relax in the evening? Do antibiotics not cure your sinus infections? The fact is that there is such as thing as responsible and irresponsible drug use just as their is responsible and irresponsible technology use. I’d like to be able to legally inhale a little herb vapor when I have an upset stomach, for example, and I don’t see anything any more irresponsible about that than taking Tylenol for a headache.

Of course a “drug culture” is bad, but the question is still whether decriminalization of marijuana will help us diminish a drug culture. I think it will for reasons already discussed.

Best,
Leela

 

[MrZetterlund]

Omfg…

Ciggarets are ****ing stupid!!!

Alchohol is ****ing stupid!!!

Marijuana is ****ing stupid!!!

 

[Leela]

Omfg…

Ciggarets are ****ing stupid!!!

Alchohol is ****ing stupid!!!

Marijuana is ****ing stupid!!!

Oh. Well then. Since you put it that way, I am entirely convinced. From now on, whenever someone offers me a beer, I will just smile and say, “Alchohol is ****ing stupid!!!”

But Wait!!! I just remenbered. Even if I thought that these things were all ****ing stupid I would still need to decide whether or not legislating any use of these things as criminal would be good or bad. That’s been the issue in this therad, so I guess your comments (and your exasperation) are really irrelevent here, aren’t they?

Best,
Leela

PS, I don’t think you are supposed to be say “omfg” around here.

 

[da_nolo]

Is your group also going to stand against all alcohol use?

I already pretty much am. However there is a patience in battle whether it is war or fighting to control and develop your spirit away from sin. So the first stand would be against marijuana and it’s use. That would be if I can not find one however. I don’t want to as I don’t like creating multiple groups/organizations to do one thing as it will compete against one another for members, resources, and eventually ideas.

 

[da_nolo]

cbs13.com/local/reed.says.sorry.2.1648953.html

murder suspect convicted in association during home invasion for weed

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

If you study human history and biology…there is no such thing as moderation. you are in taking a substance that is not created normally withing you, nor contains normal reactions to your body. that ‘high’ is a poison that your body is reacting to. it causes your body to act biologically abnormal. just like any other substance, that harms your body regardless to whether or not someone likes it or not.

I would make a case that there is such a thing as moderation, other wise nicotine, caffeine, and especially alcohol would be off limits to Catholics. We are commanded to live in moderation with our food, drink, and daily habits. Just because some people fail, does not mean that all will. People indulge in recreational drugs constantly that don’t seek to get “high.” Alcohol is one of these instances. Can you say that every time you drink it is to get drunk? I can tell you that I frequently have a glass of wine or two with my friends and family, or enjoy a beer with pizza or a burger. I am not getting drunk, and since I see that many, many, MANY people do this, I am betting that moderation is a trait shared by most humans.

Now you bring up the question about brain development during adolescence. Perhaps that can help create the cause and I would give the simple statement that could very well be the situation. I am curious as to why, however? I hope there is no attempt to separate adult years vs teen years and state one is okay vs the opposite not okay. after all since when does adolescence ever listen and agree to wait until a certain age in order to do something? they don’t wait to take a drink and won’t wait for sex…they won’t wait for drugs. all they want is that high, as would adults. so, again, there is no in between or area of gray…there could never be.

The point of bringing up adolesense is purely physiological. A developing brain of a teenager is far less tolerant to outside substances than that of an adult. This is why it is illegal for someone under the age of 21 to drink. Again, I submit that while some teens fit into the category of impatient, and intemperate, I would disagree that they all are like this. Mr, my friends, and my husband were all very temperate teens. We remained chaste, saved alcohol for when it was legal, and conducted ourselves in a sober way. I would actually argue that most teens are this way. There are only a handful who behave intemperately that give the rest of them a bad name. I actually find it vey hard to believe, as someone just barely out of my teen years, that all of them are the way that is being described. I think we can have faith in the young ones that they know what is right, and most of them are following that.

This doesn’t mean that I think we should let them drink before 21. This is just too dangerous. It means that I trust most of these kids to make good decisions, and most of them do.

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

I already pretty much am. However there is a patience in battle whether it is war or fighting to control and develop your spirit away from sin. So the first stand would be against marijuana and it’s use. That would be if I can not find one however. I don’t want to as I don’t like creating multiple groups/organizations to do one thing as it will compete against one another for members, resources, and eventually ideas.

If you are taking a moral stand against alcohol, you will find it difficult, neigh impossible, to get the backing of the church. The church has maintained since its foundation by Christ himself that alcohol in moderation is acceptable. Christ himself drank wine, made wine for others to drink, and used alcohol in the sacrament of the eucharist. You can’t abolish alcohol and maintain the sacraments. You will also find several references to the good of alcohol, and it’s use. Proverbs 31:6, for example:

Give beer to those who are perishing, wine to those who are in anguish;

The truth is, when you are talking about abolishing alcohol, you are taking a step beyond that of the church. It would be like trying to ban sugar, meat, or marital sex (part of a sacrament!) because you find objections to it.

I wish you luck in leading others to the Lord, but I cannot help you with what you seek in this case as I feel it violates those things which the church and scripture has called good and uses in its sacraments.

 

[teadough]

The Catechism points to the fact that the use of marijuana (as an illicid drug) is not desirable and is even stronger in condemnation to those who those who push it.I would say that those who on this thread “push” for it’s use;should examine their motives;as they are on a dangerous moral position.

I always understood the Catechism pointing out the obvious of the activity that surrounds the “pushing” of illegal drugs as I was trying to say earlier.

I do think marijuana can be used in moderation and know plenty of people who do so. I am not one of those people. I can’t moderate any sort of mind altering chemical. I can’t even just have 1-2 drinks of alcohol, and when I go to receive communion I only receive the Host because I have decided that it would be best for me to receive that way.

I really hope that I am not coming off the wrong way but I know I am to many people because they already have a preconceived notion of marijuana. I am by no means trying to make it seem like marijuana is some sort of non-drug, because just like other legals drugs(alcohol is a drug) I think it can be a very powerful. I believe there is some therapeutic value in this particular plant and I would at least like to see it decriminalized so young people who get caught with $50 worth of weed don’t end up having their life thrown away of such a small petty charge(doesn’t take much to have a felony depending on what state your in) while the person with the DUI get off comparatively light.

People who drink don’t always drink just to get drunk. You can argue that one just likes the taste but you can’t deny the fact that people drink for reasons more than taste. Even if it is just a couple drinks. The same goes for marijuana. People use marijuana in the same way. Not everybody is sitting around smoking blunts. You would be surprised at the people you know that do partake of the drug. I can guarantee that someone that you least expect smokes a little herb from time to time.

 

[da_nolo]

`
I don’t think you understood what I was saying in my earlier post and I have no idea why you even bring up abortion or the other things because it has nothing to do with what I was trying to say. Sorry if I was confusing. I will try again.

As Catholics we are obligated to follow the laws in the U.S(this does not mean you can do whatever you want in the eyes of God just because it is a law. That isn’t the point here). As of now marijuana is not legal. If it does indeed become legal one day, and you’re Catholic, then you can partake if you choose to do so depending on what the law states in regard to usage. And yes, you can fight to overturn a law if it comes to play just like you mentioned with abortion but comparing abortion to being legal in the U.S to marijuana is not even in the same category.

Why not fight against having Alcohol overturned? I mean…it kills more people than marijuana ever will Why not tobacco?

That’s where you are wrong…Catholicism teaches against gluttony and addiction. it also teaches that we SHOULD NOT take part in any ritual/action that would oppose God’s law & Church teachings(God’s teachings to be exact).

Now last I check the Church is highly against any person getting ‘high’ for several reasons. We are supposed to keep within ourselves, that means control of our bodies. Though this may be different with individuals, one hit and your high. you just lost control of your body. More than less (as I think about it currently) your in a state very similar to sloth, and well…that’s another deadly sin. How is there a similarity? well in both situations, you’re a lazy stupid bum, don’t care about anyone nor anything. Some would state that it calms you down, well so does tobacco and that’s due to the drug itself nothing else. your body is receiving what it cries out for and getting it quiets the body’s tantrum. then we get back into gluttony and that’s no longer in your control, but your addiction.

Also, is there anywhere in the Bible that supports drunkenness? no! it condemns it, and whether it be by drink or smoke or any other means, doesn’t rather matter. It’s the aftermath that should be kept away from so in marijuana’s case…the substance must be kept away from.

In regards to ritual, marijuana is highly connected to several religious activities as well as groups. many being asian and native american. there are also other religions from the caribbeans if Im not mistaken. Much of which are incredibly against Church teachings as well as they target the Church itself. so where’s the right in that? where’s the good?

Oh but someone could just smoke pot instead of affiliating themselves with that stuff?
Then you get into the above where that person is still getting high, which in most cases involve that person trying to get away from reality.

Now to discuss the law. no where in the Bible nor in any Church teachings does it say,“If something is legal in the country we can do it.” may not be exactly in those words, but that is the point you are trying to get across. just because it is legal, we can commit to it. WRONG! porn is in all way legal (though some illegal of coarse) and yet the Church, as God has shown us, teaches against it. this would be just another example of that. marijuana is legal, oh but guess what…you still should not partake in this IMMORAL activity.

Furthermore, as said before. there are countless Saints that have done illegal and legal activities in the name of morality vs popularity, culture, heritage, namesake, etc., etc.
(NOTE:I connect one activity with another whether directly connected or not because everything is indirectly connected. how you work -lazy vs hard worker- is because how you live at home and what you do at home. understand?)

 

[catsrus]

The answer to any “addiction” is the same.
Stop doing it. Duh!

 

[da_nolo]

According to Romans 13 there is a law that says you have to follow the law. Obama rules by define authority:

1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

hey, yea this totally works…if your talking about the Catholic Church! however government (especially today’s government) is not directed/directly under God, from God, or deals with God. If you noticed, government is trying to be separate from God and secular.
Let’s also read the whole book of Romans instead of one little piece as one piece of the puzzle does not show the picture.

Romans 13:13
** “13Let us walk honestly, as in the day: not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and impurities, not in contention and envy. 14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ: and make not provision for the flesh in its concupiscences.”**
newadvent.org/bible/rom013.htm

 

[da_nolo]

The answer to any “addiction” is the same.
Stop doing it. Duh!

easier said then done I’m afraid. I have been dealing with addiction for past year or so and that’s when I finally realized what I was doing wrong. now it’s the up hill battle that I still fail in from time to time.

 

[stringbeanduck]

`
You know why Humbolt County became like it is? Because marijuana is illegal. It has nothing to do with the herb itself. Here is the thing. When you have an illegal substance, you are more than likely going to attract other illegal activities to provide the services and distribution needed for said substance. That is the whole point of a lot of peoples argument. Of course someone will always counter with “well, marijuana now, whats next? Cocaine?”.

I agree. I personally believe marijuana is a gateway drug in that by keeping it illegal people are encouraged to do more illegal drugs simply by association. I have friends who say, “well I do one illegal drug(marijuana) might as well try others since I can get them from the same guy”.

 

[da_nolo]

I have no idea what you are even talking about and don’t see how it relates to my response about marijuana in Humbolt County.

you were doubting that companies would add or alter cannabis to create it more addicting or something like that…I disagree and gave you examples of several businesses that have done illegal as well as immoral activities.

 

[teadough]

That’s where you are wrong…Catholicism teaches against gluttony and addiction. it also teaches that we SHOULD NOT take part in any ritual/action that would oppose God’s law & Church teachings(God’s teachings to be exact).

Yes, I understand that.

Now last I check the Church is highly against any person getting ‘high’ for several reasons. We are supposed to keep within ourselves, that means control of our bodies. Though this may be different with individuals, one hit and your high. you just lost control of your body.

 

[da_nolo]

I would make a case that there is such a thing as moderation, other wise nicotine, caffeine, and especially alcohol would be off limits to Catholics. We are commanded to live in moderation with our food, drink, and daily habits. Just because some people fail, does not mean that all will. People indulge in recreational drugs constantly that don’t seek to get “high.” Alcohol is one of these instances. Can you say that every time you drink it is to get drunk? I can tell you that I frequently have a glass of wine or two with my friends and family, or enjoy a beer with pizza or a burger. I am not getting drunk, and since I see that many, many, MANY people do this, I am betting that moderation is a trait shared by most humans.

The point of bringing up adolesense is purely physiological. A developing brain of a teenager is far less tolerant to outside substances than that of an adult. This is why it is illegal for someone under the age of 21 to drink. Again, I submit that while some teens fit into the category of impatient, and intemperate, I would disagree that they all are like this. Mr, my friends, and my husband were all very temperate teens. We remained chaste, saved alcohol for when it was legal, and conducted ourselves in a sober way. I would actually argue that most teens are this way. There are only a handful who behave intemperately that give the rest of them a bad name. I actually find it vey hard to believe, as someone just barely out of my teen years, that all of them are the way that is being described. I think we can have faith in the young ones that they know what is right, and most of them are following that.

This doesn’t mean that I think we should let them drink before 21. This is just too dangerous. It means that I trust most of these kids to make good decisions, and most of them do.

youtube.com/watch?v=7bbaRyDLMvA
In the above link “Ferguson Speaks From The Heart”. Perhaps many have seen it, maybe many haven’t. At first he speaks about his comical act in making fun of people, however, towards the end he speaks about his personal experience with alcoholism as well as other possible issues. I wanted to put this here cause it speaks about addiction in a new perspective.

Now I can’t say that every time I drink I want to get drunk, mostly because I usually don’t drink; AT ALL. I prefer never drinking, but to be honest my girlfriend and brothers have a way to play devil’s advocate. Even then, however, I never try to get drunk because I think of it as a vile feeling. Just like marijuana and any kind of drug (even over the counter, considered ‘safe’) because I don’t know what is going on with my body. Pain is there for a reason, so we understand that something bad is happening. So that’s my personal idea. So you understand where I’m coming from; horrible experiences through out years in growth with family/non family individuals threatening to kill others, pissing on themselves, puking themselves, black outs, etc. So in that understanding, there is absolutely nothing worth getting drunk for, however most individuals do cause it is associated (in our culture and many others) with parties. that is alcohol however and not marijuana…so lets stay focus on the problem right? I’v already stated that I am against alcohol, but that is a different fight. there are factors in it that may help me and there may be times to look at it, but still not on target if you keep saying, “oh what about this?” Furthermore, simply because that is legal, does not dictate me giving up and allowing another harsh chemical become legal and easier to obtain by children and adults regardless. it’s like this. If I had two F’s and a C in three different courses…would I give up on them? no you’d work hard in all of them, and safe the C into getting an A. Plain and simple…you sound like you are saying “give up” because other two substances (which I do not use nor like) are legal. that’s what I get from what your saying. in reply = NEVER GIVE IN.

on moderation; I’v never seen it when dealing with substances that is not normally digested by the human body. by normal I’m talking about biological. I don’t care that there would be millions or billions drinking across the globe, that just expresses what I mean and the world’s corruption. Alcohol biologically, will kill you from the inside over time. even with ‘moderation’ the effect is still the same. everyone at least should understand that. beer among other alcoholic beverages are made from the left overs of micro-organisms. yea that means their pee basically. biologically the moderation of alc. is none; in my opinion. However, in that … most definition of moderation is based on opinion and the person who is using over another. In relation towards my own addictions, I did not tell myself the truth until I really studied why it was wrong and discovered that wrong in my own life. yet who’s using mary jane? the people with the addiction and view it as okay…so legalizing it would just deepen that okay thought.

 

[da_nolo]

I take it you have never smoked marijuana because you are comparing the way marijuana acts to drugs of a higher caliber like heroin or meth.

you mean I’m comparing marijuana with heroin…I must disagree with this assumption as I describe what I am told. Your right I never have, and never will (I hope), but that does not mean I am completely absent to what occurs when someone uses it. nor would that change the teachings of the Church.

you’re stereotyping it like the movies do.

No, Im thinking it like how my friends acted while on it. they acted stupidly and cared about nothing. the drunks acted similarly to pot heads. in that I mean all they wanted to do was get drunk/get high. now it’s either I grew up experiencing your so called small percentage while others experienced a normal life (which I doubt) or that is how it is. those are the only two options I see, unless you also think I’m a lair. so which is it?

Nobody is saying get all blitzed or drunk on either alcohol or pot.

then i guess you never went to high school? that’s all I heard at high school, that’s all I heard growing up. before, during, after any party…“Im going to get baked”, “I was so baked”. it is that feeling of high that makes marijuana what it is, if it wasn’t then who would use it? no one ! after all it is that ‘high’ that people refer to when they try and say, “let’s relax” when ever someone speaks as such they are referring to the high feeling from it. to them that’s how you relax, unrealized about the only reason that they think they are ‘relaxed’ is because their bodies/mind was craving the substance…which is not moderation but addiction. Also, how else would it be considered for use to get an ‘out of body’ experience? that is just one common phrase by most pot heads and the reasons towards using pot.

False stereotype and sort of a degrading statement to people of other cultures

How is it degrading, I’m telling you fact. If someone is telling you that the best means to nirvana is weed and you should bake your self before meditating…is that not against Catholic teachings? it is the exact opposite and to be told to participate is to put your Catholic upbringing to the side. that’s what I get out of it as I see no possible way for anyone to partake in another religious activity and remain open to Christ. I think that’s why the occult, paganism, and other religions & practices are heavily frowned upon and normally you are explained why you should not take part. “Have no other gods beside my”. “do not bow to other idols”. then again I only see this world black and white … some people have a problem with that cause then it is too trick or something. guess what, the devil’s favorite color is gray. that field of unknown okays.

That isn’t what I said and I explained myself fully. Sorry if you missed it.

You started a thread asking questions but it seems you already know all the answers so Im not sure why you started the thread.

I think Im done with this thread. Good luck and Peace Be With You

Regards, T:thumbsup:

My thread is titled, " NEEP HELP; BATTLE AGAINST MARIJUANA".
if you think I was trying to obtain a position for it, then it is your own misunderstanding. My questions was to further my knowledge in the issue as well as (similarly to the title) understand the best means to defeat every single assumption that marijuana should be legal and is okay to use. sorry if I had confused you some how.

 

[Jermosh]

I watched “Reefer Madness” the other day, its amazing that the propaganda machine is still in full force.