Need help biblically addressing the Real Real Presence

[Kolbe300]

***Hi, Michael!

…on the surface you and the scholars seems to be right on the money…

…but only on the surface:

1. Jesus did not use metaphor when He spoke to the disciples about His death on the hand of the Jews (how they would hand Him over to the foreigners to be Killed.
2. When facing His accusers and those who wished Him ill He would not use metaphor to charge them about their desire to Kill Him: “…why do you wish to kill me?” “…every day I preached in the Temple, why are you seeking Me as though I were a criminal?” “…you have no power over Me, if it had not been given to you from above… that’s why those who handed Me over to you will have to account more dearly than you” (paraphrased)
3. In John 6 Jesus is not addressing those who are seeking His Death; He is addressing His intimate disciples (12) and His general audience (general disciples and the curious) so there is no need for Him to go into some metaphoric discourse about the Jews wanting Him Dead.
4. Jesus’ insistance in using the those very precise terms over the visible objection of His audience clearly demonstrates that they (Jesus and the audience) were on the same plane of communication and both understood each other as having an exchange on actual language rather than metaphorical euphemism!

Maran atha!

Angel***

More great points. Thank you.

 

[ryanoneil]

Here are a few exerpts from scripturecatholic.com/the_eucharist.html#eucharist-IIa

John 6:54, 56, 57, 58 - He uses an even more literal verb, translated as “trogo,” which means to gnaw or chew or crunch. He increases the literalness and drives his message home. Jesus will literally give us His flesh and blood to eat. The word “trogo” is only used two other times in the New Testament (in Matt. 24:38 and John 13:18) and it always means to literally gnaw or chew meat. While “phago” might also have a spiritual application, “trogo” is never used metaphorically in Greek. So Protestants cannot find one verse in Scripture where “trogo” is used symbolically, and yet this must be their argument if they are going to deny the Catholic understanding of Jesus’ words. Moreover, the Jews already knew Jesus was speaking literally even before Jesus used the word “trogo” when they said “How can this man give us His flesh to eat?” (John 6:52).

John 6:55 - to clarify further, Jesus says “For My Flesh is food indeed, and My Blood is drink indeed.” This phrase can only be understood as being responsive to those who do not believe that Jesus’ flesh is food indeed, and His blood is drink indeed. Further, Jesus uses the word which is translated as “sarx.” “Sarx” means flesh (not “soma” which means body). See, for example, John 1:13,14; 3:6; 8:15; 17:2; Matt. 16:17; 19:5; 24:22; 26:41; Mark 10:8; 13:20; 14:38; and Luke 3:6; 24:39 which provides other examples in Scripture where “sarx” means flesh. It is always literal.

John 6:55 - further, the phrases “real” food and “real” drink use the word “alethes.” “Alethes” means “really” or “truly,” and would only be used if there were doubts concerning the reality of Jesus’ flesh and blood as being food and drink. Thus, Jesus is emphasizing the miracle of His body and blood being actual food and drink.

The whole article is even more convincing.

Peace,

Ryan

 

[jcrichton]

Here are a few exerpts from scripturecatholic.com/the_eucharist.html#eucharist-IIa

John 6:54, 56, 57, 58 - He uses an even more literal verb, translated as “trogo,” which means to gnaw or chew or crunch. He increases the literalness and drives his message home. Jesus will literally give us His flesh and blood to eat. The word “trogo” is only used two other times in the New Testament (in Matt. 24:38 and John 13:18) and it always means to literally gnaw or chew meat. While “phago” might also have a spiritual application, “trogo” is never used metaphorically in Greek. So Protestants cannot find one verse in Scripture where “trogo” is used symbolically, and yet this must be their argument if they are going to deny the Catholic understanding of Jesus’ words. Moreover, the Jews already knew Jesus was speaking literally even before Jesus used the word “trogo” when they said “How can this man give us His flesh to eat?” (John 6:52).

John 6:55 - to clarify further, Jesus says “For My Flesh is food indeed, and My Blood is drink indeed.” This phrase can only be understood as being responsive to those who do not believe that Jesus’ flesh is food indeed, and His blood is drink indeed. Further, Jesus uses the word which is translated as “sarx.” “Sarx” means flesh (not “soma” which means body). See, for example, John 1:13,14; 3:6; 8:15; 17:2; Matt. 16:17; 19:5; 24:22; 26:41; Mark 10:8; 13:20; 14:38; and Luke 3:6; 24:39 which provides other examples in Scripture where “sarx” means flesh. It is always literal.

John 6:55 - further, the phrases “real” food and “real” drink use the word “alethes.” “Alethes” means “really” or “truly,” and would only be used if there were doubts concerning the reality of Jesus’ flesh and blood as being food and drink. Thus, Jesus is emphasizing the miracle of His body and blood being actual food and drink.

The whole article is even more convincing.

Peace,

Ryan

***Hi, Ryan!

Thank you for your clarifications–having a deeper meaning of those key words is a wonderful thing (just downloaded the page to my comp).

Keep up the excellent work!

Maran atha!

Angel***

 

[ryanoneil]

***Hi, Ryan!

Thank you for your clarifications–having a deeper meaning of those key words is a wonderful thing (just downloaded the page to my comp).

Keep up the excellent work!

Maran atha!

Angel***

Your very welcome.

God bless,

Ryan