Need Help Debating a Fundamentalist

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Maranatha:
As to his point about one mediator, ask him if he prays for his friends and family. If he does then ask if he is acting as a mediator? There i s no difference between asking your family to pry for you and to have Saints to pray for you. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ.

Praying to the Saints
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That’s a good point. That’s how it was explained to me last year. Thanks for the link.
 
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Nicene:
This one always cracks me up. I have yet to get an satisfying answer from a fundy (other than being embarrassed by the prospect).

“So let me get this straight you are rebuilding the temple for the anti-christ yet claim to be worshipping God?” :eek:

Dispy’s pump money into Isreal in order to have the temple rebuilt and have actually bought some of the junk for it.

Yet they have a problem with Mary? It’s always interesting to me that the rest of christianity builds houses of worphip to God, yet they build one for the antichrist. Who would build a house of worship for the antichrist unless one actually worshipped him? If the eye is focused on the antichrist it isn’t focused on God.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
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To be honest, what he was saying didn’t make much sense to me either. I got the impression that he was just badly confused.
 
Church Militant:
Hi Jew_Man_73!

Sounds like you really had an enjoyable evening. :rolleyes:
I can suggest quite a few good resources for you my friend.
Since you’re dealing with someone who’s all into the “Left Behind” series,
( :rotfl: I’m sorry but every time I see or hear that title lately I get a mental image of something rude. :o ) I suggest you check out this LINK on that series.

I also suggest that you print out God’s Love For You and give it to them after reading it carefully. These articles on the last things will also help you greatly.

The praying to the saints link above is a good one too.

Are Catholics Born Again? and Assurance of Salvation

These articles on Anti-Catholicisim will give you sort of a primer on the sort of stuff that you ran into.

One of THE very best sources that I’ve discovered and use constantly is The San Juan Catholic Seminars Apologetics Series and there is no better bargain for such a great resource. They also have a brand new booklet out on the end times that I’m gonna have to get!

Finally, if you would like to get into an OUTSTANDING study of the Catholic faith, I highly recommend the Catholic Home Study Service which offers at least 7 FREE courses that will inform and encourage you in the faith. I have completed them all and they were greatly instrumental in my return to the faith. I usually recommend that people begin with “We Believe…” but they’re ALL good.

Feel free to PM me if you run into anything too bizarre. I’ve probably seen and heard it all. 👍
Pax tecum,
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Thank you for your help. I’ll be sure to check out these resources. It looks like I have alot of reading to do! 🙂 That home study course sounds like just what I need. I’ll check it out.
 
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MarySon:
You may mention that as a Catholic you received Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior. Moreover, you receive Jesus Christ - His body, blood,.sould and divinity every time your receive Communion. I would suggest to select one topic at the time and explain to him what the Catholic Church believes.
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That’s a good point, but before I bring it up I’ll need to know how to counter his arguments. I know he’ll have some.
 
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Lazerlike42:
I would recommend this, from a little bit of experience.

When I was anti-Catholic, folks used to try to argue the entire reformation all over again with me. This never worked, because each point was dilluted. It also didn’t work because of the fact that doctrines like faith alone and the symbolic presence of Christ were just too important for me to seriously consider any arguements about. What got to me was when I was introduced to a very minor, relatively inconsequential idea that was not only less important, but also much smaller in scope. Once I saw that the Catholics were right on that point, it made me a LOT more interested to pay attention to evidence for other points.

That one minor thing for me was the practice of calling priests father. What really got me was something very, very simple. Someone showed me all the places in the Bible where it shows that the Apostles were called spiritual fathers:

It was very simple, very quick, and very straightforward. What’s more, it really hit home because I had always believed that, “well, you can argue with me on the real presence, or on this or that, but the instruction to call no man father is SOO straightforward and solid that the Catholics just can’t defend it in a million years.” Nevertheless, seeing those few scripture verses made me realize that the Apostles were known as fathers, so not only did it show me that the Church was right on this point, but it showed me that I had to take an entirely different approach to interpreting Scripture. It made me realize that the method of taking verses as literal instructions direct to me just didn’t work.

So I’d recommend studying up on this topic and approaching him with this, nothing else. Try to get him to see this, then wih any luck he’ll be curious for more.
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Thank you very much for the Scripture references. I’m going to write them down. I agree that aroaching this one topic at a time is the best way to go. Otherwise, I’d get overwhelmed and nothing would be accomplished.
 
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VociMike:
Yes, and to expand a little bit, Christ redeemed the material component of humanity as well as the spiritual component. He took on our material nature as well as our spiritual nature. Thus, asking Jesus into your heart is only going half-way. It is asking the spiritual component of Jesus into our spiritual component. But in the Eucharist we not only receive the spiritual component of Jesus into our spiritual component, but we also receive the material component of Jesus into our material component. It’s all so…darned…logical! 🙂
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Thanks, I’ve never heard that before. I really need to learn more about the Eucharist. Being new to the Catholic faith, that;s the hardest thing for me to understand/accept too.
 
Semper Fi:
J,

Order the book Catholicism and Fundamentalism by our own Karl Keating. Here are some great apologetics websites:

scripturecatholic.com
catholic.com (listen to Catholic Answers Live or read the tracts)
ewtn.com
amm.org/chss.htm (Catholic Home Study Service operated by Father Oscar Lukefahr)
catholicity.com/maryfoundation/ Free apologetics CDs.

Feel free to PM me if you need a list of more books.

God bless brother,
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Thanks for the links, and the book suggestion. I just looked the book up on amazon.com, and it sounds like something I need. I just ordered it. I’ll let you know once I’ve read it. 🙂
 
Daniel Marsh:
where is the “sinner’s prayer” in the bible?

Lumen Verum Apologetics
A 30-Part Course in Defence of the Catholic Faith
by Robert M. Haddad
theworkofgod.org/Library/Apologtc/R_Haddad/Course/Contents.htm
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That’s an excellent point. In the past year, I’ve read the New Testament from beginning to end, and I haven’t seen the sinner’s prayer in there at all. Interesting, coming from a group that claims to be Bible Christians. I was going to mention that to him the other night, but I was afraid it would cause the discussion to get ugly.
 
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CARose:
I think you’ve been getting some good advice. Do you expect to talk with him again some time soon? I hope so, as it sounds like a great opportunity to challenge both your knowledge and his understanding of the Church.

I would strongly recommend that you read the book “Catholicism and Fundamentalism” by Karl Keating. I read it a few years ago and found it covered these issues quite nicely.

There are also a couple of other books out there that I haven’t yet gotten but which I’m interested in eventually getting. One is “Radio Replies” or something like that, which is a compilation of an answers to questions put together by Tim Staples. You can find some excerpts at Ghttp://www.newadvent.org/library/almanac_rumble.htm.

Another resource I don’t have, but would like to get are a series of answers a sidewalk apologist back in the early 20th century compiled. Unfortunately, I no longer remember his name or the name of his book(s). (anyone out there know what I’m referring to?)

Do you have the Catholic Answers Bible yet? If not, know that they’ve got a new addition, called the New Catholic Answers Bible, that in addition to having a complete Catholic Bible, has pages that answer the common questions you may encounter with non-Catholic Christians who don’t understand how Catholics come to their understanding of the Faith Christ gave us.

For me, when I’ve had this kind of encounter I’ve prayed to the Holy Spirit for guidance. It’s often a good idea to ask the other person if we can start by agreeing that we love God and choose to do His will. Once we agree that this is our common motivation in life, I then ask if we can begin our discussion with an agreement that we seek to serve God and that we desire that our discussions lead us to the truth as given by God through Christ Jesus and that we are willing to follow this truth, regardless of where it might lead. And finally I ask that we begin further discussion with a prayer asking God for guidance so that we might remember at all times that He is our goal, not winning of any discussion but rather seeking His will.

Then, try to limit the scope of the discussion to one item at a time. If he tries to change the subject, try to keep it on one item at a time. If you are finally backed into a corner for which you have no answer, relax. You know that you have the Church covering your back. Therefore, while you may not know how to defend the Truth, you know that the defense exists and you can come here to find it. Simply tell him you’ll get the answer and get back to him. But then, do get back to him. This provides you with an excellent opportunity to better know Catholicism and to help him learn that there is more to being Christian than Fundamentalism provides.

This reminds me, there are a bunch of excellent tapes available on Catholic Apologetics put together by John Matinoni, available for FREE from www.biblechristiansociety.com.

Heck, the return to sacrifice is what we already have in the Catholic Church. The Church is the new Jerusalem.

I wish you all the best as you talk further with him or others regarding your path into Catholicism.

God Bless
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Thank you for your suggestions. I had no idea there was a Catholic Answers Bible. I definitely need to look into this. Catholicism and Fundamentalism should be on its way to me. As for discussing one topic at a time, I agree wholeheartedly. This man is very militant. He definitely wants to go on the attack and disprove the Catholic faith. I’d be overwhelmed if I tried to discusss several issues at once.

I’m not sure exactly when, but I will see him again soon.
 
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Lorarose:
So…all I have to do is pray a prayer that isn’t in the bible?
Sounds like a man-made ritual to me :rolleyes:

Where does it say in the bible that that is how we are all saved :confused:
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Good point. And this man thinks the Catholic Church is full of man-made rituals. :confused:
 
Jew_Man_73, hello, Christ is risen!!!

Hey, if I may interject a little, I like the way lorarosa thinks.

If you try to answer the other person’s questions directly, it will be probably just turn into a circular debate. So I would recommend asking questions back directly, such as;** “If I may sir, what did Christ establish on earth, a Church or a Book?”** or What does the Bible say is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth" (1Tim 3:15)

By asking questions directly back , it will usually put that person on the defensive, and out of offensive mode. (Usually)😃
One of my favorites, ask him if his Minister has been sent by Chirst to Preach? Jesus over and over tells us that He was sent by the Father, He then sends His Apostles to Preach the Gospel to the whole world, and the Apostles tell us, “how can you preach if you were not sent” (Rom 10:15)

Just a few thoughts…

Praise Jesus…

Joao
 
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Jew_Man_73:
Thanks, I’ve never heard that before. I really need to learn more about the Eucharist. Being new to the Catholic faith, that;s the hardest thing for me to understand/accept too.
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If you are Jewish by birth this site may help you Salvation is from the Jews It also has links to a large community of Jewish converts to the Catholic Church. (I don’t care for the word convert in this circumstance because truthfully it is we who have been grafted onto the Jewish tree. More correctly it should probably be said those who have come to the fulfillment of Judaism I suppose)

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
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Jew_Man_73:
Hello,

Last night I was invited to a friend’s home for dinner. Her father was there as well. I’d met this man briefly in the past, but had never had an in-depth conversation with him before last night.

During the course of the evening, he asked both me and another friend who was there what religion we were. When we responded individually by saying that we were converting to the Catholic faith, he became argumentative. He shared his salvation experience with us, then proceeded to tell us that the Bible states that there is only one mediator between God and man, that mediator being Jesus. He made it very clear that he had no use for praying to Mary or to the Saints. He also told us that in order to be saved, you must ask Jesus into your heart by praying the sinner’s prayer. He asserted that if you don’t do that, you’re not saved. He also began to discuss Revelation. He explained how the Temple in Jerusalem would be rebuilt, sacrifices reinstituted, and this would help usher in the reign of the Antichrist. (He’s a big Left Behind fan.) I restrained myself and didn’t say much, partly because I didn’t feel well-equipped. (I hate that feeling.) I’m not an expert on the Catholic faith. Can someone recommend some resources I can study so I can respond to him next time? Any help anyone can give would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
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Shalom Alaikum.

I think these web sites may provide some tools.

hebrewcatholic.org/

secondexodus.com/html/sitedesign/israeliteheritage.htm

secondexodus.com/html/sitedesign/defendingthecatholicfaith.htm

hebrewcatholic.org/welcomemessage.html

secondexodus.com/html/basics/jewishorigins.htm

Shlom haMashiach!
 
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JoaoMachado:
Jew_Man_73, hello, Christ is risen!!!

Hey, if I may interject a little, I like the way lorarosa thinks.

If you try to answer the other person’s questions directly, it will be probably just turn into a circular debate. So I would recommend asking questions back directly, such as;** “If I may sir, what did Christ establish on earth, a Church or a Book?”** or What does the Bible say is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth" (1Tim 3:15)

By asking questions directly back , it will usually put that person on the defensive, and out of offensive mode. (Usually)😃
One of my favorites, ask him if his Minister has been sent by Chirst to Preach? Jesus over and over tells us that He was sent by the Father, He then sends His Apostles to Preach the Gospel to the whole world, and the Apostles tell us, “how can you preach if you were not sent” (Rom 10:15)

Just a few thoughts…

Praise Jesus…

Joao
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Thank you. I think I’ll try that the next time I see him. By the way, I forgot to mention something. He’s also a “King James Only” Christian. How do I combat that?
 
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Nicene:
If you are Jewish by birth this site may help you Salvation is from the Jews It also has links to a large community of Jewish converts to the Catholic Church. (I don’t care for the word convert in this circumstance because truthfully it is we who have been grafted onto the Jewish tree. More correctly it should probably be said those who have come to the fulfillment of Judaism I suppose)

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
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Thank you. I’ve read it. It was an awesome book. I also like you point about coming to the fulfillment of Judaism. I’ve had several Catholics refer to me as a “Fulfilled Jew.” I like that term.
 
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Jew_Man_73:
Thank you for your suggestions. I had no idea there was a Catholic Answers Bible. I definitely need to look into this. Catholicism and Fundamentalism should be on its way to me. As for discussing one topic at a time, I agree wholeheartedly. This man is very militant. He definitely wants to go on the attack and disprove the Catholic faith. I’d be overwhelmed if I tried to discusss several issues at once.

I’m not sure exactly when, but I will see him again soon.
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Brother, seeing as this person is already sorely misguided about the Catholic faith, I would suggest not talking to him about faith matters until you are more schooled in the Catholic faith. Fundamentalists love to throw out 100s of accusations they know not everyone will know the answer to right away, and many times lots of what they throw out is just a fallacy. You can if you want, and sometimes it can be good to know what you will experience when you do become a Catholic at Easter. I have the Catholic Answer Bible, and also the New Catholic Answer Bible published by Our Sunday Visitor (I prefer the New Catholic Answer Bible). It is an NAB version which contains many Catholic tracts which point to Sacred Scripture and the Catechism references. If you don’t have one, get the New Catholic Answer Bible and a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. I will send you a few titles you can order or look through to see if they’ll help. PM me and I will see what I can dig up. Also, since you come from a Jewish background (my great grandmother was a Catholic convert from Judaism too), you might want to PM Rosalind Moss as she is a convert from the Jewish faith as well and is an apologist here at Catholic Answers. I wonder if you’ve read any of St Edith Stein’s works? She was a convert from Judaism. I wonder if you also know that the head Orthodox Jewish Rabbi of Rome converted to Catholicism after WWII?

God bless!

P.S. Scott Hahn’s Rome Sweet Home and The Lamb’s Supper helped me appreciate the Mass a lot more, and he delves into how the Eucharist is the final Sacrifice God will make for mankind. Get “We Believe - A Survey of the Catholic Faith” from the Catholic Home Study Service for free.
 
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Jew_Man_73:
Thank you. I think I’ll try that the next time I see him. By the way, I forgot to mention something. He’s also a “King James Only” Christian. How do I combat that?
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*King James? I would definetly ask, "By what authority did a secular King have to authorize a revision of Sacred Scripture? Since the men that he choose to undertake this task, kept the same Canonical books as the Catholic Church said were inspired, shouldn’t that Church have the final say on the Translation?

*You could go on and on…

*What year did the Bible fall from the sky?

**If the average piece of paper parchment only lasted about 100 years, who continued to copy the letters over and over, and who preserved the Sacred Scripture through the ages?

How does he know that the Bible is true?

*Anyway you get the point, I would recommend two books, one from Catholic Answers, “Where we Got The Bible” from a former Protestant, and Saint Frances De Sales’ “The Catholic Controversy”.

If you read St. Francis De Sales, you will see where I get most of my Apologetics from. 😉

Praise Jesus
 
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