Need help defending Pro-life issues in overpopulation discussion in school

[Ma.Eugenia]

Ask them to show you where the bible says not to cut off your arm.

Hi hasikelee!

This is so funny–but you’re right. The ability to have children is a beautiful gift from God to us women. It is sad that some people seem to find it more of a burden.

Seriously, though. Overpopulation is an issue because of bad governing policies and poor food distribution. Their concerns are good, but their conclusions are wrong. Instead of being dragged into a debate on keeping every human alive, start guiding them towards the truth of overpopulation issues. They won’t give into and say abortion is wrong until they can see that their initial assumption is wrong.

You, know, I have been praying that if I am able to make at least one person in my class to understand better the issue of contraception and and why it is not a good option, nor a good excuse to curb what people fear to be looming overpopulation in my country—I would be very happy.

As a would-be-nurse, but first and foremost, a Catholic, after studying about the different contraception methods, I cannot, in conscience, inform the others of the option to use the artificial methods.

Thanks for your help. : )

 

[Ma.Eugenia]

Many of the forms of Contraception can actually cause abortions.

pregnantpause.org/abort/untold.htm
lifesite.net/abortiontypes/pillabortion_types.html

Therefore if you need Biblical references look for verses about murder or perhaps just “Thou Shalt not Kill”

Hi Syele!

You’re right. “Thou shalt not kill” is a good verse to quote.

Problem is I have to make others believe that there is life in what some people call “just a clot of blood.” --that is the understanding of many poor people here. Some people say that since, the fertilized egg has not taken the physical features of a human being at the start, they conclude that there is no life at that point.

For some people, the end (freedom of responsibility for unwanted child, freedom from marring of physical figure, etc.), justfies killing the unborn.

Thanks for referring the sites. I am really wondering why after knowing all the possible consequences, people still opt to use the artificial means.

Please help pray for me that if God wishes me to be a nurse (though, in truth, I am already a dentist–I pray for that too. ), that I would be a good one, to understand what I am supposed to understand, and act always in accordance to God’s will.

Thank you very much for your help.

 

[Ma.Eugenia]

Tell your class about NFP (Natural Family Planning). In America today the divorce rate is about 50% (most couples contracept). Did you know there are study’s which show the divorce rate for those who use NFP are around 2%!

Hi PLAL!

No, I didn’t know about this study. It is an interesting and useful piece of information.

God invented human sexually to have the livegiving and lovegiving component together. The fact NFP is natural and the divorce rate is virtually non-existant shows that God’s Plan is the natural way.

I think you have a good explanation on the “procreation and unitive” aspects of marriage. It makes me understand it more.

Thanks also for your explanation about the world’s population being able to fit in the state of Texas. If thats the case, then overpopulation is indeed a myth. I wonder why proponents still think there is overpopulation? What is their purpose?

Thank you too for referring some sites to me.

God bless!

 

[Syele]

Hi Syele!

You’re right. “Thou shalt not kill” is a good verse to quote.

Problem is I have to make others believe that there is life in what some people call “just a clot of blood.” --that is the understanding of many poor people here. Some people say that since, the fertilized egg has not taken the physical features of a human being at the start, they conclude that there is no life at that point.

For some people, the end (freedom of responsibility for unwanted child, freedom from marring of physical figure, etc.), justfies killing the unborn.

Thanks for referring the sites. I am really wondering why after knowing all the possible consequences, people still opt to use the artificial means.

Please help pray for me that if God wishes me to be a nurse (though, in truth, I am already a dentist–I pray for that too. ), that I would be a good one, to understand what I am supposed to understand, and act always in accordance to God’s will.

Thank you very much for your help.

Honestly, I think people opt to use artificial contraceptives because they are selfish. We live in a world of fast paced, getting whatever you want when you want it convience, They are so used to this, they do not want to make exceptions for Anyone else. People in this condition ar enot generally ones to be swayed by scripture anyhow. I would look instead for Journals and other evidence that supports scripture instead of starting with scripture. If you really want to know what they are thinking about you, and What youa re up against… read some of this…democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=217&topic_id=2955&mesg_id=3430

 

[Ma.Eugenia]

Population research Institute

Population Research Institute is a pro-life educational organization dedicated to protecting and defending human life, ending human rights abuses committed in the name of family planning, and dispelling the myth of overpopulation.

Hi buffalo!

Thanks for taking time to help me with my research for my assignment.

Its funny when I see so many people in the city I live in, I had automatically thought that there were truly too many people in the world. I thought that it was an obvious reality.

Going through the answers in this thread, I realize that I have to go deeper to understand the situation better.

You are right, it seems that whenever overpopulation is taken up, the issue of contraception always seems to be connected to it.

Thanks for your help.

 

[Ma.Eugenia]

Being a sexual female means being responsible, not just in procreating but not to use sex as a tool. Self gratification later on in life, and lead to an adult completely incapable of loving another sexually and only use another as if s/he were their hand.

Hi Renee!

I agree with you, a woman’s sexuality is a gift from God for a purpose. To turn away part of this gift is like telling God I don’t like your gift.

I know the Billings Ovulation Method is large in the Phillipines, I would check out their site www.woomb.org .

How interesting. They even have animation in this site you recommended.

Thanks!

 

[Ma.Eugenia]

Honestly, I think people opt to use artificial contraceptives because they are selfish. We live in a world of fast paced, getting whatever you want when you want it convience, They are so used to this, they do not want to make exceptions for Anyone else.

Hi Syele!

I agree with you. There is an element of selfishness there, especially, if one claims to be Catholic (knowing that the Church defines the start of life as being at the start of conception).

People in this condition ar enot generally ones to be swayed by scripture anyhow. I would look instead for Journals and other evidence that supports scripture instead of starting with scripture.

Its funny that my teacher makes a point to show that she is Catholic by insisting that we pray to be good nurses at the end of each class session, and yet, seems to think that artificial means are ok. This is after she tells her students on possible effects of artificial contraception on women and the fertilized ovum. I really don’t know how she is able to reconcile the two diverging views.

If you really want to know what they are thinking about you, and What youa re up against… read some of this…democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=217&topic_id=2955&mesg_id=3430

Ok, I see what you mean. Yikes! It really is an uphill battle for some people.

Still, I believe that God can move mountains. He converted St. Paul, so those people are not a lost cause but souls who are lost. We should pray for them.

God bless!

 

[Ma.Eugenia]

Your teacher has a responsibility to teach you scientific fact, not the politically correct misnomers of junk science.

Hi Rosalinda!

My teacher tells us the facts. Example: She tells us that after morning-pills predisposes a woman to give birth to a child with severe malformations resulting from a blighted (degenerated) ova. She tells us that it also predisposes the woman’s child (conceived while taking these pills) to have pregnancy problems --in short, the problem passes on to her own child.

She tells us that she saw a woman who used IUD who got pregnant and the IUD was seen floating together with the baby.
Yet, she told our class that IUD was still her choice for contraception–apparently, because it was supposed to be 98% effective.

She tells us some hormone pills prevent an already fertilized egg from implanting in the uterus --predisposing the mother to ectopic pregnancy.

Apparently, to her, all these negatives are negligible as opposed to preventing an unwanted pregnancy.

Thank you, Rosalinda, for sharing this site with me.

 

[buffalo]

The World Health Organization (WHO) reported in its July 29, 2005 press release that a team of scientists has determined that combined oral contraceptives (estrogen plus progestogen) and combined menopausal therapy are “carcinogenic to humans.” Menopausal therapy was formerly classified as “possibly carcinogenic to humans.” It has been upgraded to a Group 1 classification, “sufficient evidence of carcinogenicity in humans.” Oral contraceptives received the same classification.

This provides additional biological support for a link between abortion and increased breast cancer risk. All three risks involve estrogen overexposure.

 

[buffalo]

Theology of the Body

 

[Syele]

Hi Syele!

I agree with you. There is an element of selfishness there, especially, if one claims to be Catholic (knowing that the Church defines the start of life as being at the start of conception). Its funny that my teacher makes a point to show that she is Catholic by insisting that we pray to be good nurses at the end of each class session, and yet, seems to think that artificial means are ok. This is after she tells her students on possible effects of artificial contraception on women and the fertilized ovum. I really don’t know how she is able to reconcile the two diverging views.

If she is Catholic, perhaps citing the Catechism might sway her?

Ok, I see what you mean. Yikes! It really is an uphill battle for some people.

Still, I believe that God can move mountains. He converted St. Paul, so those people are not a lost cause but souls who are lost. We should pray for them.

God bless!

He Certianly Can! But often when talking to people you have to know where they are starting from. Thats why I linked to that forum… I see it as a list of objections you should be prepared to counter. Didn’t mean to be discouraging.

 

[Ma.Eugenia]

The World Health Organization (WHO) reported in its July 29, 2005 press release that a team of scientists has determined that combined oral contraceptives (estrogen plus progestogen) and combined menopausal therapy are “carcinogenic to humans.” Menopausal therapy was formerly classified as “possibly carcinogenic to humans.” It has been upgraded to a Group 1 classification, “sufficient evidence of carcinogenicity in humans.” Oral contraceptives received the same classification.

This provides additional biological support for a link between abortion and increased breast cancer risk. All three risks involve estrogen overexposure.

Hi buffalo!

I am learning more from this site.

Carcinogenicity of hormones was not taken up in my class.

Thanks for the information!—and also for the link to Theology of the Body.

 

[magician]

Ma.Eugenia: I suggest that you find a new school. Or quit school and join a convent.
Why not focus on string theory? At least there’s a possibility of a positive outcome.

Perhaps you should suggest to your “teacher” that human biology and reproduction are best left to biology teachers.

About your “recommendations” on hormonal “pills”, I would remind you that neither you nor your “teacher” are physicians or qualified to do so.

I really suggest string theory. It’s much more intriguing and you might find some enlightment…

 

[Ma.Eugenia]

If she is Catholic, perhaps citing the Catechism might sway her?

You’re right Syele. Looking back, when I was giving my answers in class trying to defend my position why I would never use artificial contraception and why I would never choose abortion—I knew in my heart I believed it, but did not know how to defend my position. I felt afterwards that I could have done a better job explaining and making my classmates understand. I missed my oppurtunity in that class.

Catholics comprise the majority of our population. However, many are not aware of the teachings of the church as to when life really start. Many, despite being openly Catholic, cling to the belief that it occurs at the time of implantation so taking those contraceptions pills become acceptable.

My teacher is very good at making academic lectures on Nursing subject, but she obviously is not educated on the reasoning of the church on its stand against artificial contraception. I, myself, unless I made this extra effort to know, would never have understood.

This report I am making is for another class whose students are just about to take that teacher’s subject next semester. I am hoping that this report would help them answer better when its their turn to get asked about their position about contraception.

Imagine, at first I didn’t want to get the topic, but then I ended not having any choice about it because nobody wanted to take it.

God works in mysterious ways. He made me learn more about myself and my beliefs on why I don’t believe in artificial contraception and why there really isn’t a problem of overpopulation.

Going through this process of learning about this topic. It turned out to be a blessing in disguise.

I see it as a list of objections you should be prepared to counter. Didn’t mean to be discouraging.

Oh no! I was not discouraged at all. I am grateful for that link because its the best way to understand why Pro-choice people think what they think. I allows me to formulate answers that may come my way ahead of time.

God bless!

 

[hasikelee]

Eugenia,

Another way of arguing that might be effective is to argue for the classmates’ interests.

For example, in trying to change a woman’s heart and mind on birth control, emphasize the many problems with ABC. That stuff is a pretty toxic cocktail!

Many young women are not ready or are unable to worry about others, such as little unseen babies. Helping them to see that there are reasons against abortion, ABC, premarital sex, etc that is all good for them, might help.

 

[Ma.Eugenia]

Ma.Eugenia: I suggest that you find a new school. Or quit school and join a convent.
Why not focus on string theory? At least there’s a possibility of a positive outcome.

Hi magician,

What is a string theory?

Sorry can’t quit school, am almost finished with it. Besides, I don’t see why I should quit…

Actually am enjoying my time there. Isn’t school a place to question and formulate ideas about what is being taught? That is part of learning. We all need to discern and not just swallow every bit of information that comes our way.

As for a convent–gee, that did cross my mind…

Actually, there is a nun who goes to school there as a student too. I greet her, even though she doesn’t know me.

Perhaps you should suggest to your “teacher” that human biology and reproduction are best left to biology teachers.

That is part of the curriculum for nurses because family planning is part of community health teaching that will be expected of us. So we have to know. I don’t think the school I am studying in would have gotten the professor if she was not qualified to teach the subject.

About your “recommendations” on hormonal “pills”, I would remind you that neither you nor your “teacher” are physicians or qualified to do so.

I am just quoting what my teacher taught us regarding contraceptives.

I am also being vocal about my going through a process of understanding church position on the issue based on information taken from varied sources—church teachings, reports on overpopulation, including physicians reports on actions of contraception.

Anyway, gotta go to school already–I have a test to get ready for. Be back later on this site.

God bless!

 

[magician]

Eugenia, from your last post, I presume you are in nursing school? If that’s the case, then you should be knowledgeable in all aspects of human reproduction, including contraception. A professional school is not the place to argue philosophy. It’s a place to learn an art, in this case a medical art.

I don’t understand your dilemna. You don’t have to practice birth control and you don’t have to administer birth control prescriptives.

If you are spending your time in class arguing the philosophy of birth control in what should be a professional learning environment, then I again suggest you find another school.

 

[buffalo]

Eugenia, from your last post, I presume you are in nursing school? If that’s the case, then you should be knowledgeable in all aspects of human reproduction, including contraception. A professional school is not the place to argue philosophy. It’s a place to learn an art, in this case a medical art.

I don’t understand your dilemna. You don’t have to practice birth control and you don’t have to administer birth control prescriptives.

If you are spending your time in class arguing the philosophy of birth control in what should be a professional learning environment, then I again suggest you find another school.

Yeah, but they teach that stuff to confuse one’s conscience. It makes for a more willing participant. Kudos to Eugenia for the guts to take this on. Give them the facts and let them know you know.

 

[Ma.Eugenia]

Eugenia, from your last post, I presume you are in nursing school? If that’s the case, then you should be knowledgeable in all aspects of human reproduction, including contraception. A professional school is not the place to argue philosophy. It’s a place to learn an art, in this case a medical art.

I don’t understand your dilemna. You don’t have to practice birth control and you don’t have to administer birth control prescriptives.

If you are spending your time in class arguing the philosophy of birth control in what should be a professional learning environment, then I again suggest you find another school.

Hi magician!

That is right, I am taking Nursing as a second course.

I don’t agree that ethics and philosophy should be left out of any learning program for professionals. In school, we even have a 3 unit subject called Health Ethics. It is part of the curriculum because it is important for nurses to know about the issues.

As nurses (which I hope to be in the future) we will be faced with issues that go directly against our Catholic faith. Should we keep quiet let comments that publicly demean the teachings of our church just pass quietly without bothering to defend it?

See my original post #1

The same professor asked everyone in class to write down our choice of contraceptive method and defend our answer. I said that if I get married, it will have to be, natural family planning method.

Imagine, when she read the answer of one of the guys who answered the same, she related a story of a colleague who gave birth in a Catholic university hospital here which does not advocate artificial birth control.

She told everyone that when she saw this colleague again she had many children in tow, looked old and bent! Imagine, the young people in class were listening to this professor insinuating that the colleague looked like that because of the belief of the church against artificial contraception.

School is the best place to learn about the issues. There is no rule that says we should only stick to the technical aspect for it to be a professional learning environment.

Nurses should be trained to ask questions in order to know right from wrong. What better place to learn that–but in school?

As for the topic of overpopulation–I did not pick it. It was given to me by the professor to discuss/ report in class. After that a question and answer will follow. Based on the reaction of some classmates I sounded on my ideas regarding the position of the church on artificial contraception (a topic that is connected to my main topic),it would be a lively one.

I needed to get more information on the church stand on both issues. That is why I posted this thread.

You are right that nurses will not be prescribing/administering the contraceptives, but contraceptive Health teaching is part of a nurse’s job, so we have to know everything we need to know about it–including the moral/ethical considerations.

So far, I have learned a lot from those who are helping me with my research in this thread.

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut, magician.

God bless!

 

[Ma.Eugenia]

Yeah, but they teach that stuff to confuse one’s conscience. It makes for a more willing participant. Kudos to Eugenia for the guts to take this on. Give them the facts and let them know you know.

Hi buffalo!

Thanks for your vote of confidence.

Please help me pray that I make a good report this Sunday (yep–my class is on a Sunday).

Thank you for helping me with my report.

God bless!