Need help - Divorce, remarry and my obligation

[theguidedheart]

First let me please request that only Catholics respond to my question - I need solid Catholic feedback on this issue:

My father recently divorced my mom - both are non-denominational Christians, or in my father’s case, at least claim to be Christian. However, my father has recently met another woman, and has set a date to remarry. She is a cradle Catholic, previously married, now divorced, and has not practiced the faith in quite a long time from what I understand, and infact rejects the Church for supposed ‘hipocrisy’. Both him and her have planned to get married, and requested that I attend the wedding. I let my father know that I could not attend the wedding due to my strong beliefs in what the Church teaches about marriage, and what Christ clearly outlines in Scripture about marriage - it would be something I can not support, and will not accept as a valid marriage. That being said, he figured I wouldn’t go to the wedding anyway, but wanted to know where we will stand in the future if he happens to show up my house with his new ‘wife’, and her son one day - will they be accepted cordially in my house. This was a good question, and really left me wondering where I can stand on the situation as a good Catholic. My heart tells me that I should love the sinner, hate the sin, and being that he is my father, it would be my duty out of love to stand strong on the issue - maybe they can visit, but they would not be allowed to sleep at my house. Or can they not even visit? How do I treat them in this invalid marriage?

ANY support, or suggestions from people in similiar situations or with insight on what I should and should not allow would be GREATLY appreciated, I just don’t know where my moral obligations allow me to stand on this, and its especially difficult since it concerns my family, not a friend, and most especially my own father. Can I honestly allow them to visit my house, and act cordial with them when I know my father’s soul is risking death because of his blatent disregard for the teachings in Scripture?

Help please, and God bless!

Peace

 

[Traditional_Ang]

First let me please request that only Catholics respond to my question - I need solid Catholic feedback on this issue:

My father recently divorced my mom - both are non-denominational Christians, or in my father’s case, at least claim to be Christian. However, my father has recently met another woman, and has set a date to remarry. She is a cradle Catholic, previously married, now divorced, and has not practiced the faith in quite a long time from what I understand, and infact rejects the Church for supposed ‘hipocrisy’. Both him and her have planned to get married, and requested that I attend the wedding. I let my father know that I could not attend the wedding due to my strong beliefs in what the Church teaches about marriage, and what Christ clearly outlines in Scripture about marriage - it would be something I can not support, and will not accept as a valid marriage. That being said, he figured I wouldn’t go to the wedding anyway, but wanted to know where we will stand in the future if he happens to show up my house with his new ‘wife’, and her son one day - will they be accepted cordially in my house. This was a good question, and really left me wondering where I can stand on the situation as a good Catholic. My heart tells me that I should love the sinner, hate the sin, and being that he is my father, it would be my duty out of love to stand strong on the issue - maybe they can visit, but they would not be allowed to sleep at my house. Or can they not even visit? How do I treat them in this invalid marriage?

ANY support, or suggestions from people in similiar situations or with insight on what I should and should not allow would be GREATLY appreciated, I just don’t know where my moral obligations allow me to stand on this, and its especially difficult since it concerns my family, not a friend, and most especially my own father. Can I honestly allow them to visit my house, and act cordial with them when I know my father’s soul is risking death because of his blatent disregard for the teachings in Scripture?

Help please, and God bless!

Peace

guidedheart:

You posted that your mother and father were “non-denominatonal Christians”. Does that mean that you’re a “convert’ to Catholicism”? and, Do your parents and your father’s fiancee still go to church? Which one? How faithfully?

I understand your frustration and your desire to do the right thing, and the fact that this is your father, and that you don’t want you mother to feel betrayed. I also understand the potential for confrontations with someone who believes the Church is “full of hypocrites”.

The Commandment to “Honor your Father and your mother” is the only one that come with a promise. So the question is how to honor both parents in this situation, and how to show the Gospel to someone who may very well be using someone else’s “hypocrisy” to excuse her own sinfulness and self-centeredness…

The Catholic Church does allow you to attend his wedding even though he’s being remarried in a non-Catholic Church. It’s just that you’re not allowed be part of the Wedding Party or to have any active part in the ceremony. You would be allowed to be what most of the other guests are, a guest in the congregation. If you have any questions about this, you should talk to your pastor and follow his direction.

If you are still uneasy about attending your father’s wedding ceremony, you could have a long conversation with your mother to see how uncomfortable she is with this and of she would be angry with you if you attended. If she is adament about it, you have an automatic out as you would be acting out of consideration for your mother’s feelings.

On the subject of your father visiting your house - Each time he goes to your house, you have a chance to provide a Christian witness and to demonstrate the love of God. And the Church does not prohibit the visits. God understands that he is your father and that this is a chance to preach the Gospel to him and his new wife. St Francis of Assisi said, “Always preach the Gospel, use words when necessary.”

Although your father and his second wife won’t be married in the Catholic Church, they will be legally married. The choice of whether they would stay overnight would be up to you. I think that seeing your family going togther to Mass, exp. if you invite your father and her to join you and your family, just might cause his new wife to begin to question her assumptions about Catholics, and there’s only one way she could ever see that.

One of the Early Church Fathers used to pray: “Lord, in our zeal for the truth, let us not forget the truth about Love.” One of the Roman writers wrote of the Early Christians, “Look at how they love one another.”

It’s our love that will bring them to the Church.

I hope this helps.

Your Brother in Christ, Michael

 

[theguidedheart]

guidedheart:

You posted that your mother and father were “non-denominatonal Christians”. Does that mean that you’re a “convert’ to Catholicism”? and, Do your parents and your father’s fiancee still go to church? Which one? How faithfully?

First of all, thank you very much for the response, I appreciate you taking the time to go through those details. When I say they are Christians, that is true about my mother - she is a practicing Christian attending a non-denominational church. My dad does not attend church, and infact doesn’t really have a good knowledge of the basics of Scripture from what I have seen talking to him this past weekend about this issue. Infact when I brought up the fact that marriage is once, and for life, and remarriage would be considered adultery, his response was, ‘well, I understand that, but I am getting married anyway.’ So I don’t think he adheres too strongly to Christian teaching, and I don’t think he has attended church since I lived with him, which has been over 12 years at least. I was raised with the basic non-denominational principles of Christianity, basically accept Christ as your lord and savior and you are saved, although was never baptized, and had hardly any structure outside of that one aspect of accepting Christ into my heart. But we hardly ever went to chuch, never read the Bible together, barely prayed before meals, and that was probably about the extent of it.

Now however, I am indeed a convert to Catholicism, have been attending Mass for 6 years, have been Catholic for 4. My father and fiance do not attend any church at all, although his fiance was raised Catholic but fell away from the Church quite awhile ago.

I understand your frustration and your desire to do the right thing, and the fact that this is your father, and that you don’t want you mother to feel betrayed. I also understand the potential for confrontations with someone who believes the Church is “full of hypocrites”.

I would say more than wanting my mother to not feel betrayed, I want my dad to adhere to the teaching that he says he is a follower of. Its hard for me to accept in one breath he will tell me he is Christian, and in the next say he does not care about the teaching on divorce in Scripture. He tried to turn it into a ‘thats your Catholic understanding of Scripture, I have my own’. I am more worried about him losing his soul than I am causing friction in this life. Also, I was quite pleased to find out his fiance at least had SOME basis of Catholicism in her life at one point in time, because like you said, it gives me the opportunity to preach the Gospel to her, and maybe help her understand some of her problems with the Catholic Church in truth.

Although your father and his second wife won’t be married in the Catholic Church, they will be legally married.

This is where I struggle - how so? This would only be civilly right? Sacramentally he would still be married to my mother, and that is something he can not break, or am I wrong in my understanding of divorce? So if that first marriage is sacramentally valid, I see attending his second wedding as showing ‘support’, and infact allowing a mortal sin (adultry) to take place with my consent as his son. I see that as wrong unless I have a skewed perspective of the details involved in remarriage? This I think is my biggest problem with the entire issue. Also, wouldn’t it be enabling their sin to allow them both to sleep in my house if they were to visit? If I knew someone suffered from alcoholism, I would not allow them to bring alcohol with them when they visit if it consumes their lives and distracts them from living the way God intended them to - the problem with my father’s marriage, is that it is not a struggle against sin, it is a once and for all giving into sin, especially considering he knows the Bible’s stance on divorce and yet knowlingly rejects it - or am I wrong?

At the same time, I don’t want to condemn anyone, I just want to stand strong in defense of the sacredness of marriage, and let him know that I will not bend my knees to this social ‘disease’ in our culture, that when our finite love dies in marriage, and we do not seek the infinite love of God toghether with our spouse in marriage, we can not just quit, and go find another finite love in our life.

Thanks in advance for any more help you can offer…

Peace
chris

 

[wcknight]

We are all sinners, and it is not our roles to judge the actions of others, even our parents. As the other response said, ask your mother how she feels about the divorce and remarriage (and the potential to have contact with your father and step mother). And ask how she would feel if you still associated with your father and his new family.

Jesus did not abandon the woman who had 5 husbands and was still living in sin. He asked her to reform her life. You may ask your pastor or priest what the Church policy is with regards to association with divorcees is.

(I don’t think we are to treat them much differently than most anyone else) You might tell your father that you are Catholic and wish to abide by Church teachings. I think the key, is how do you personally feel about establishing a relationship with your father and his new family ? Are you upset with him (and/or your future step mother) ? Do you want to socialize with them ? And will this affect your relationship with your mother ?

I think the choice is almost entirely up to you as to how much or how little you want them to be a part of your life.

 

[Daniel_Kane]

It is generally improper to participate in an invalid marriage ceremony but there are a lot of nuances here and solid Catholic commentators have varied opinions based on the situation. If I were you, I would consult a priest known for wisdom and piety where all the fact can be disclosed with candor.

Your father is not held to Catholic form since he is not a Catholic however his new wife is held to Catholic form even though she is currently very lapsed according to your description.

It would seem to me that this planned would be an invalid marriage because of the prior marriages of both parties and the obvious lack of permission to marry outside of the faith for the Catholic party. Legally, they would be of course married in the eyes of the State.

What should you do? This is just me but I would attend the ceremony alone but not participate or sit in a place of honor. I would sit in the last pew and skip the reception. I would not allow them to cohabitate in my home because of the irregular marriage situation. I would not allow my children to overnight in their home for the same reason. They would not be allowed to give gifts to the children directly. They would be welcome in my home and I would welcome them with respect and affection.

I would explain that you attended alone to maintain the lines of communication so that you can influence them to amend their ways. But they may not act as if they were married in the presence of your children because they are a bad example of the married state, making up the standards of marriage as they go.

 

[wcknight]

Personally I tend not to judge other folks by my faith’s standards. Yes, I believe marriage is for life through thick and thin. But if someone is not Catholic, their view of marriage is much different than mine. I can’t force them to abide by my rules. I may voice my opinion but that is about all I can or would do.

I would not attend the marriage since as you say you disagree with the union (or sit in the back as someone else suggests). Afterwards, that is up to you. You may advise the former Catholic what the Church’s teaching is on divorce and remarriage is, and you may debate her as to what her objections are with the Church. It may turn out that after talking to you, they may not want to come back. Most folks resent being told they are not doing the right thing.

OR they may decide to try the Church’s process to get their former marriages annulled.

AS far as your father eternal destination, no one knows how God will judge anyone. He is not Catholic and is following whatever moral code he has established for himself. I would continue praying for him. He is in God’s hands, and whether he converts at some later date, or lives by his own standards or principles (or lack of standards and principles) is up to the Almighty. You can only make suggestions and pray.

 

[MilesXpisti]

It is generally improper to participate in an invalid marriage ceremony but there are a lot of nuances here and solid Catholic commentators have varied opinions based on the situation. If I were you, I would consult a priest known for wisdom and piety where all the fact can be disclosed with candor.

Your father is not held to Catholic form since he is not a Catholic however his new wife is held to Catholic form even though she is currently very lapsed according to your description.

It would seem to me that this planned would be an invalid marriage because of the prior marriages of both parties and the obvious lack of permission to marry outside of the faith for the Catholic party. Legally, they would be of course married in the eyes of the State.

What should you do? This is just me but I would attend the ceremony alone but not participate or sit in a place of honor. I would sit in the last pew and skip the reception. I would not allow them to cohabitate in my home because of the irregular marriage situation. I would not allow my children to overnight in their home for the same reason. They would not be allowed to give gifts to the children directly. They would be welcome in my home and I would welcome them with respect and affection.

I would explain that you attended alone to maintain the lines of communication so that you can influence them to amend their ways. But they may not act as if they were married in the presence of your children because they are a bad example of the married state, making up the standards of marriage as they go.

Excellent. Well said, my friend. Attend out of respect, but do not countenance sin where it can have a deleterious effect on someone impressionable, like a child. The previous poster is correct in that people do not like being told that they are doing wrong. But we, as our brother’s keepers, still have an obligation to do it. Stay strong and know that you and your family will be in my prayers.

 

[theguidedheart]

We are all sinners, and it is not our roles to judge the actions of others, even our parents. As the other response said, ask your mother how she feels about the divorce and remarriage (and the potential to have contact with your father and step mother). And ask how she would feel if you still associated with your father and his new family.

Thank you wcknight for your sincere reply… I am going to offer my opinion to this part, not as a challenge, but just to show why I am having trouble thinking of it in the way you described, so here is my view:

I agree, do not judge the sinner, and this is something my father has accused me of when I would not accept his remarriage. However, I asked him flat out - do you consider yourself Christian? His reply was ‘yes’. I said, and do you believe that by being Christian we must follow the teachings of Christ? ‘Yes’… and Christ says that he who divorces his wife, must not remarry because it will be adultry - when Christ is asked in one case how do I receive eternal life, his reply is ‘obey my commandmants.’ - Adultry is one of the 10 commandmants… and so therefore my father’s final response was ‘Here is what it comes down to, I am getting married in 2 months, how will you treat me and my new wife then?’

All I am asking of him is that he adhere to the principles that we both supposedly hold to. I don’t think thats judging, but simply holding to a standard we are supposed to both accept as we call ourselves Christian. So its not the sinner I am rejecting, its the very conscious decision he is making to reject Christ flat out, and say that his human needs are more important than his spiritual ones.

My mother by the way is completely opposed do him dating, and he hasn’t even told her he is remarrying… infant he didn’t even tell me at first, I found out on accident through a relative. But my mother has vowed to live a single life after he left, since she recognizes they are one flesh, for eternity.

Jesus did not abandon the woman who had 5 husbands and was still living in sin. He asked her to reform her life. You may ask your pastor or priest what the Church policy is with regards to association with divorcees is.

One difference I think, and a distinction to be made possibily, is that I am not confronting my father with the truth after he already married, as it would be clear he would need to repent of his sin at that point. But he is ABOUT to jump headfirst into this sin, and I am outlinning for him his obligations to God before he makes that choice - he is rejecting them.

If he continues with the marriage, I will be there as a strong witness to the faith, and do what I can to show a good example and lead them both back to Christ and repent of their marriage, but I feel like this is D-Day, and I am in my last ditch effort to
testify to the truth.

(I don’t think we are to treat them much differently than most anyone else) You might tell your father that you are Catholic and wish to abide by Church teachings. I think the key, is how do you personally feel about establishing a relationship with your father and his new family ? Are you upset with him (and/or your future step mother) ? Do you want to socialize with them ? And will this affect your relationship with your mother ?

Well as a practicing Catholic who takes the matter seriously, I would not consider his new wife related to me at all, since sacramentally the marriage would be invalid - and marriage is God’s institution, the civil benefits and legal standing of the marriage may follow, but do not justify a new status for them. I would simply treat them as friends, but would not allow them to stay at my house out of the fact that I would be enabling a sinful and invalid relationship. This is pretty much the stance I am leaning towards I think.

Thank you again, very much for your insight.

Peace,
chris

 

[theguidedheart]

It is generally improper to participate in an invalid marriage ceremony but there are a lot of nuances here and solid Catholic commentators have varied opinions based on the situation. If I were you, I would consult a priest known for wisdom and piety where all the fact can be disclosed with candor.

Your father is not held to Catholic form since he is not a Catholic however his new wife is held to Catholic form even though she is currently very lapsed according to your description.

It would seem to me that this planned would be an invalid marriage because of the prior marriages of both parties and the obvious lack of permission to marry outside of the faith for the Catholic party. Legally, they would be of course married in the eyes of the State.

What should you do? This is just me but I would attend the ceremony alone but not participate or sit in a place of honor. I would sit in the last pew and skip the reception. I would not allow them to cohabitate in my home because of the irregular marriage situation. I would not allow my children to overnight in their home for the same reason. They would not be allowed to give gifts to the children directly. They would be welcome in my home and I would welcome them with respect and affection.

I would explain that you attended alone to maintain the lines of communication so that you can influence them to amend their ways. But they may not act as if they were married in the presence of your children because they are a bad example of the married state, making up the standards of marriage as they go.

I appreciate your feedback, and agree with much of what you said - in regards to the last part, my father actually said to me ‘if we came and visited, I would not just pretend we are not married, because we will be’… also he mentioned ‘you know your daughter will come across divorced people who remarry in her life, you can’t keep her from knowing that’… I think its a bad excuse - just because more and more people in this society are having premarital sex, doesn’t mean that I would allow it in my own house - I don’t see this as much different. This is difficult… its easy to love my father and show him the truths of Catholic teaching, but its another thing entirely to draw some kind of line where my obligations as a Catholic stop, and my love for family members can go on even where they cross the boundaries of Christian teaching. Jesus said he came to cause division, and now I see why… the ‘hardness of his heart’ has kept him from understanding the moral significance of what he is about to do, and he seems fine with that, even telling me that ‘he is human, and has to do things that satisfy his human needs’ - that is a bad excuse, which cancels out objective moral law, and essentially puts himself on the level of animals who act out of instinct, and not out of love for God.

This is hard…

Peace
chris

 

[theguidedheart]

Personally I tend not to judge other folks by my faith’s standards.

this is exactly what my father told me, my problem with that reasoning is, and especially as a Catholic, I can confindently say these are not MY faith’s standards… but God’s.

Yes, I believe marriage is for life through thick and thin. But if someone is not Catholic, their view of marriage is much different than mine. I can’t force them to abide by my rules. I may voice my opinion but that is about all I can or would do.

Yes, true… and this is where things get hard for me… I don’t want him to abide by my rules, I want him to adhere to the Christian morals he SAYS he believes in.

AS far as your father eternal destination, no one knows how God will judge anyone. He is not Catholic and is following whatever moral code he has established for himself. I would continue praying for him. He is in God’s hands, and whether he converts at some later date, or lives by his own standards or principles (or lack of standards and principles) is up to the Almighty. You can only make suggestions and pray.

Very true, thank you - its just hard to see someone so opposed to understanding God’s commandments for his life, and yet in the next breath look me in the face and say he is Christian. You know St. Paul says it is better for one who converts to the Christian faith to never be born at all if he turns away from the faith later and reject it. And thats what my Dad is esentially doing, and its hard to watch, its hard to let happen… because although God may or may not judge him on it, by the standard of Sacred Scripture, things do not look good in his favor, so I am worried.

Peace,
chris

 

[Daniel_Kane]

Guided Heart,

All I can say is “your house, your rules”. My sister and cousin can tell you for certain that they were always welcomed in my home along with their live-ins and irregular marriage partners. One got the guest room, one got the couch. I set this up before they got here, so there were no surprises, no drama.

The upshot was that they FINALLY (years later) regularized their relationships.

Similarly, your children (and mine) will run across smokers but no one can smoke in my home, drugs, porn and a litany of vices; but not in my home. There is no need for them to experience this in the safety of their home.

In fact, if they see your charitable, loving firm line in the sand, they may very well be less inclined to enter irregular relationships because "If mom made grandpa sleep on the couch because of an irregular marriage, she sure will make me sleep on the couch as well."

Do discuss this with a priest known for his wisdom and piety, there is no shortage of such priests in Georgia.

 

[theguidedheart]

Guided Heart,

All I can say is “your house, your rules”. My sister and cousin can tell you for certain that they were always welcomed in my home along with their live-ins and irregular marriage partners. One got the guest room, one got the couch. I set this up before they got here, so there were no surprises, no drama.

The upshot was that they FINALLY (years later) regularized their relationships.

Similarly, your children (and mine) will run across smokers but no one can smoke in my home, drugs, porn and a litany of vices; but not in my home. There is no need for them to experience this in the safety of their home.

In fact, if they see your charitable, loving firm line in the sand, they may very well be less inclined to enter irregular relationships because "If mom made grandpa sleep on the couch because of an irregular marriage, she sure will make me sleep on the couch as well."

Do discuss this with a priest known for his wisdom and piety, there is no shortage of such priests in Georgia.

Thank you for the response, great advice - I would hope that if I even allow them to stay over in my house that I could be strong enough to enforce that, thats a great position to take! And I agree, there are no shortage of great priests here to talk to, I think it will come down to that, thanks again!

Peace
chris

 

[Rebecca_New]

Children are not supposed to deal with divorce and remarriage. It hurts even if you are an adult. You have to honor your parents, that is your obligation. It is not your obligation to try and make things “right” again. Maybe if you talked to your Priest you would get some sound counsel.

 

[rwoehmke]

Your Father is apparently well aware of your opinions on his attempt to remarry.That is good. I doubt very much that he will be hurt by your staying away from the wedding and possibly the reception if there is one. When it comes to visits after the fact I would be inclined to treat him and her with respect, but be firm in that overnight stays are something you would be very uncomfortable with. Your Father may disagree with you, but it sounds like he does respect your right to feel and believe as you do.
Aside from your problem, I am still left wondering why a very lapsed Catholic is still considered a Catholic when they have not darkened the door of a Catholic Church for years and basically disregard most of what the Church teaches. Why can we not accept that they have at base apostasized and have become a pagan or member of a non-catholic church? Do their actions not demonstrate as well as a formal spoken declaration that they have left and are no longer Catholic…

 

[Traditional_Ang]

Guided Heart,

All I can say is “your house, your rules”. My sister and cousin can tell you for certain that they were always welcomed in my home along with their live-ins and irregular marriage partners. One got the guest room, one got the couch. I set this up before they got here, so there were no surprises, no drama.

The upshot was that they FINALLY (years later) regularized their relationships.

Similarly, your children (and mine) will run across smokers but no one can smoke in my home, drugs, porn and a litany of vices; but not in my home. There is no need for them to experience this in the safety of their home.

In fact, if they see your charitable, loving firm line in the sand, they may very well be less inclined to enter irregular relationships because "If mom made grandpa sleep on the couch because of an irregular marriage, she sure will make me sleep on the couch as well."

Do discuss this with a priest known for his wisdom and piety, there is no shortage of such priests in Georgia.

Daniel Kane:

I think this is a wise position and that this would give guided heart a chance to provide a christian witness to his father and his new wife.

I think this may be esp. needed as his father has pretty much stopped attending Church and isn’t hearing the Gospel or studying the Scriptures at all.

Your Brother in Christ, Michael

 

[Traditional_Ang]

In Response to:

Re: Need help - Divorce, remarry and my obligation Post #3
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1675842&postcount=3

Chris:

I’m sorry to hear that your father hasn’t been to any Church in a long time. It means that he’s “forsaken gathering with other brothers and sisters”. I’m also sorry to hear that his knowledge of the scriptures is so spotty. It must have been upsetting talking to a father that you had looked up to saying he either didn’t know the scriptures or didn’t care what it said.

One of the posters shared a way to have them stay over without providing them an occasion for sin (just don’t have them over as part of their honeymoon).

None of this is going to be easy for you, so I think you do need to spend some time talking to your pastor and your spiritual advisor (find one if you don’t have one already) as well as posting here. You’re going to need all the advice and support you can get.

Congratulations on finding the Church and coming home. I know that probably took some courage, at least initialy, because of the misinformation about Catholicism that tends to be taught at Non-Denominational Churches (I went to Calvery Chapel and lived in a Christian Community for a while). Congratulations and welcome home.

Remember the words of St. Augustine, “In those things necessary for salvation, Unity; In the other things, Liberty; And, In all things, Charity.”

If possible, we want to accomplish 3 things: 1. Preserve and Strengthen your Faith; 2. Bring your father and his new wife to repentence and to the Church; and 3. Do these while not providing a brother or sister a stumbling block or occasion of sin.

Remember to keep praying about this and that God wouldn’t give you something you couldn’t handle with His help and the support of your brothers and sisters in Christ.

Your Brother in Christ, Michael

 

[puzzleannie]

you cannot attend the wedding, there is no wedding. Your father is married to your mother so by definition he cannot marry another woman.

if they visit your house, you act in strictest Christian charity under the assumption, despite appearances, that they are at least in that moment in a state of grace, and that your father is coming with a friend and you greet them and treat them as you would any other guests–without any speculation at all on their spiritual condition or lifestyle outside your home. Of course if they were to stay overnight you would point them in the direction of the nearest motel and assume in your charity they will be taking 2 rooms, but you won’t inquire or even speculate about it. You greet this lady as “Susan” not as mom.