Need help from someone who understands Hebrew (Proverbs 8:11)

[spockrates]

For wisdom is more precious than rubies,
and nothing you desire can compare with her.

(Proverbs 8:11)

A friend and I have met a roadblock in our discussion about the nature of Love and Wisdom. We think there is good reason to believe selfless Love the most desirable virtue, but the wise Jewish king Solomon tells us that nothing we desire compares to Wisdom.

(For more information, see post 379 here: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=407812&page=26 .)

**Our question: **What does the word translated *desire *mean in the Hebrew text?

 

[Richard_Kastner]

For wisdom is more precious than rubies,
and nothing you desire can compare with her.

(Proverbs 8:11)

A friend and I have met a roadblock in our discussion about the nature of Love and Wisdom. We think there is good reason to believe selfless Love the most desirable virtue, but the wise Jewish king Solomon tells us that nothing we desire compares to Wisdom.

(For more information, see post 379 here: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=407812&page=26 .)

**Our question: **What does the word translated *desire *mean in the Hebrew text?

Proverbs 9:10 The **fear of the LORD **is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

Take the emboldened part of this proverb and substitute it for wisdom in your psalm. Fear in this respect is not fear with trembling, but more awe or respect.

Also I think we need to ask ourself. Is love something we desire, of coarse we desire love, but how do we recieve love, isn,t it by giving it.
Proverbs 8:11 in the KJV is 11For wisdom is better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it. I think the things talked about here are the things of the world.

 

[Jesus_123]

+Just a few thoughts . . . upon reading your post it occurs to me that . . . perhaps . . . faulty logic is the problem - not - the translation of a word . . .? . . . it seems like you’re trying to compare and equate something like a large fruit tree . . . *so-to-speak *. . . in its complete whole essence with all its components . . . to one of its components . . . i.e. . . . one single twig among many various components of the tree. . . one single blossom . . . one single root . . . one single fruit . . . etc.

:bible1: God is love. - I John 4:8b drv

To begin with LOVE is not an attribute/grace . . . it is . . . God Himself . . . Who . . . is a total WHOLE . . . and continuing along the line of thought above . . . think of . . . **God Himself **. . . as the . . . total tree/everything . . . so-to-speak . . . with all parts intact . . . then one part among an abundant multitude of parts . . . cannot . . . be equated to the WHOLE of which it is only a part . . . it won’t compute/equate . . . *no matter how hard you try *. . . the WHOLE is always the SUM of its parts . . . and cannot ever be a singular part of itself . . .

:bible1: 4 For as in one body we have many members, but all the members have not the same office: 5 So we being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. 6 And having different gifts, according to the grace that is given us, - Romans 12:4-5 drv

Below are little portions of the Divine Office (Liturgy of the Hours), the church’s prayer for today . . .

---

:coffeeread: **Mid-Morning Reading (Terce) **
4 Now there are diversities of graces, but the same Spirit; 5 And there are diversities of ministries, but the same Lord; 6 And there are diversities of operations, but the same God, who worketh all in all. - I Corinthians 12:4-6 drv

---

:coffeeread: **Noon Reading (Sext) **
12 For as the body is one, and hath many members; and all the members of the body, whereas they are many, yet are one body, so also is Christ. 13 For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Gentiles, whether bond or free; and in one Spirit we have all been made to drink. - I Corinthians 12:12-13 drv​

:compcoff: Link: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=6189931#post6189931

Wisdom is only a facet . . . a part of . . . God’s WHOLE Nature . . . and mankind partakes of it as a grace/gift of the **Holy Spirit **. . . and as such wisdom is just a part of the WHOLE . . . but is not the whole in and of itself . . . and in the Old :bible1: Testament time . . .was considered the greatest . . . attribute/gift . . . whereas . . .

LOVE . . . on the other hand . . . is **God Himself **. . . in the . . . **Person of the Holy Spirit **. . . and as such is the COMPLETE essence of our **Wonderful God’s ** sharing of Himself a portion of His **COMPLETENESS of being ** . . . with his beloved children . . . the closest thing I can think to compare this to is the Blessed Holy Eucharist . . . which outwardly appears to be bread . . . but actually in truth is the . . . COMPLETE . . . **body and blood **. . . *soul and divinity . . . of our Lord Jesus Christ ***. . . prepared for God’s children . . .

:bible1: 8 Charity never falleth away: whether prophecies shall be made void, or** tongues **shall cease, or knowledge shall be destroyed. 9 For we know in PART, and we prophesy in PART. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, that which is in PART shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child. But, when I became a man, I put away the things of a child. 12 We see now through a glass in a dark manner; but then face to face. Now I know in part; but then I shall know even as I am known. 13 And now there remain faith, hope, and charity, these three: but the greatest of these is charity. - I Corinthians 13:8-13

Prophecies, tongues, knowledge, wisdom, etc. are all merely parts/graces/attributes of the WHOLE . . . Charity/Love Who is God . . . which WHOLE is infinite . . . which before listed parts do fit into the WHOLE . . . but not vice versa . . .

. . . all for Jesus+​

 

[spockrates]

Proverbs 9:10 The **fear of the LORD **is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

Take the emboldened part of this proverb and substitute it for wisdom in your psalm. Fear in this respect is not fear with trembling, but more awe or respect.

Also I think we need to ask ourself. Is love something we desire, of coarse we desire love, but how do we recieve love, isn,t it by giving it.
Proverbs 8:11 in the KJV is 11For wisdom is better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it. I think the things talked about here are the things of the world.

Thank you Richard. So you would say this,

For wisdom is more precious than rubies,
and nothing you desire can compare with her.

(Proverbs 8:11)

means this?

For wisdom is more precious than rubies,
and [no sinful thing] you desire can compare with her.

(Proverbs 8:11)

 

[spockrates]

+Just a few thoughts . . . upon reading your post it occurs to me that . . . perhaps . . . faulty logic is the problem - not - the translation of a word . . .? . . . it seems like you’re trying to compare and equate something like a large fruit tree . . . *so-to-speak *. . . in its complete whole essence with all its components . . . to one of its components . . . i.e. . . . one single twig among many various components of the tree. . . one single blossom . . . one single root . . . one single fruit . . . etc.

To begin with LOVE is not an attribute/grace . . . it is . . . God Himself . . . Who . . . is a total WHOLE . . . and continuing along the line of thought above . . . think of . . . **God Himself **. . . as the . . . total tree/everything . . . so-to-speak . . . with all parts intact . . . then one part among an abundant multitude of parts . . . cannot . . . be equated to the WHOLE of which it is only a part . . . it won’t compute/equate . . . *no matter how hard you try *. . . the WHOLE is always the SUM of its parts . . . and cannot ever be a singular part of itself . . .

Below are little portions of the Divine Office (Liturgy of the Hours), the church’s prayer for today . . .

Wisdom is only a facet . . . a part of . . . God’s WHOLE Nature . . . and mankind partakes of it as a grace/gift of the **Holy Spirit **. . . and as such wisdom is just a part of the WHOLE . . . but is not the whole in and of itself . . . and in the Old :bible1: Testament time . . .was considered the greatest . . . attribute/gift . . . whereas . . .

LOVE . . . on the other hand . . . is **God Himself **. . . in the . . . **Person of the Holy Spirit **. . . and as such is the COMPLETE essence of our **Wonderful God’s ** sharing of Himself a portion of His **COMPLETENESS of being ** . . . with his beloved children . . . the closest thing I can think to compare this to is the Blessed Holy Eucharist . . . which outwardly appears to be bread . . . but actually in truth is the . . . COMPLETE . . . **body and blood **. . . *soul and divinity . . . of our Lord Jesus Christ ***. . . prepared for God’s children . . .

Prophecies, tongues, knowledge, wisdom, etc. are all merely parts/graces/attributes of the WHOLE . . . Charity/Love Who is God . . . which WHOLE is infinite . . . which before listed parts do fit into the WHOLE . . . but not vice versa . . .

. . . all for Jesus+​

But if Love, and only Love, is the whole of who God’s being, and if Wisdom is part of God’s being, then God’s Wisdom must be part of His Love. Is this what you are saying is True, J123?

 

[spockrates]

I’m also still hoping someone who understands Hebrew will enlighten us.

 

[spockrates]

Or perhaps someone knows a Jewish discussion forum that is helpful to non-Jewish people who want to respectfully ask questions but not debate?

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Thank you Richard. So you would say this,

For wisdom is more precious than rubies,
and nothing you desire can compare with her.

(Proverbs 8:11)

means this?

For wisdom is more precious than rubies,
and [no sinful thing] you desire can compare with her.

(Proverbs 8:11)

Or more likely

For (fear of the Lord) is more precious than rubies,
and [no sinful thing] you desire can compare with her.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

For wisdom is more precious than rubies,
and nothing you desire can compare with her.

(Proverbs 8:11)

A friend and I have met a roadblock in our discussion about the nature of Love and Wisdom. We think there is good reason to believe selfless Love the most desirable virtue, but the wise Jewish king Solomon tells us that nothing we desire compares to Wisdom.

(For more information, see post 379 here: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=407812&page=26 .)

**Our question: **What does the word translated *desire *mean in the Hebrew text?

Again here is the KJV of Pro 8:11 For wisdom [is] better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it.
According to Strongs concordance “all the things that may be desired” is transliterated
chephets
חֵפֶץ
Transliteration
chephets
Pronunciation
khā’·fets (Key)
Part of Speech
masculine noun

Root Word (Etymology)

From חָפֵץ (H2654)

TWOT Reference
712b

Outline of Biblical Usage

1. delight, pleasure

a) delight

b) desire, longing

c) the good pleasure

d) that in which one takes delight

 

[spockrates]

Or more likely

For (fear of the Lord) is more precious than rubies,
and [no sinful thing] you desire can compare with her.

Perhaps. But if the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, then what is the end of her? I mean, maybe Solomon was speaking of the end of wisdom and not the beginning when he wrote:

For wisdom is better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it.

(Proverbs 8:11)

 

[spockrates]

Again here is the KJV of Pro 8:11 For wisdom [is] better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it.
According to Strongs concordance “all the things that may be desired” is transliterated
chephets
חֵפֶץ
Transliteration
chephets
Pronunciation
khā’·fets (Key)
Part of Speech
masculine noun

Root Word (Etymology)

From חָפֵץ (H2654)

TWOT Reference
712b

Outline of Biblical Usage

1. delight, pleasure

a) delight

b) desire, longing

c) the good pleasure

d) that in which one takes delight

Yes. Put then all together and the meaning is much the same:

For wisdom is better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired, delighted in, pleasing, longed for, and taken good pleasure in,] are not to be compared to it.

It seems, then, that Solomon believed there is nothing he desired, delighted in, was pleased with, longed for, and took pleasure in, that compared to this wisdom. But do you think he was speaking the truth?