Need help lighting the fire in Confirmandi

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LOL! Yes, I’m sure St. Pius X in Acerbo nimis was speaking of the post Vatican II crisis. :rolleyes:
Oh catechesis has always - and will always- be an issue. The Springtime of VII did so much to destroy the very structures put in place to catechize (including those mandated by Pio X) that “in part” today’s crisis is indeed a glorious blossom of the VII Springtime. Poor Pope Pio X seeing his efforts overturned to put in place what? Priests preaching heresy? Nuns who regularly “dis” dogma to their charges. All manner of liturgical abuse and disbelief in the Real Presence?

Oh my, yes, catechesis is and will be a constant concern of all true pastors. It’s just that the last 40 years represent a stunning nadir in those efforts.
 
Kids? This sacrament is for ADULTS! No one should be forced into it! Would you force an adult to go through marriage, or holy orders? Those are also sacraments that require preparation.
You do know that the Byzantine Catholics (in fact, ALL the Eastern Catholics) give both the Sacrament of Confirmation AND First Holy Communion to infants at the time of their Baptism.

There are hundrends of Catholic Bishops (and even a few Cardinals) who would be glad to discuss the errors in your Sacramentology with you 😉
 
My first question would be why the Pastor does not have the inclination to do this very important thing. Time constraints I can understand, but not wanting to, that sounds just a tad strange. As far as you, I think you should spend enough time with each person you interview to get a total picture. If you cannot give them that, in this very important process, then maybe the job really isn’t for you. Or you may have to set a limit on the number of people you can take.

But to not have as clear a picture of each person in this endeavor, seems to me to be shortchanging them for the sake of the program. The program exists to serve them, not the other way around.

I really don’t understand the Pastors actions in this at all.
you are quite right to take this responsibility seriously, and I do, and it will take up the bulk of my time up through Lent, that and RCIA, and first communions. The pastor believe me has very valid reasons why it simply is not possible, and fortunately the two year prep period helps me to know a lot of the kids by name. We could not possibly wait and have this be the only interview, so among the catechists we make sure we meet with each candidate several times during the process, immediately address issues that come up with individuals, and if serious things come up the pastor will drop everything to meet with a youth (or RCIA candidate) who needs pastoral counselling.

Yes, I am supposed to have help, the interview is supposed to involve the candidate, parent and sponsor. The first is a captive audience but it is like pulling teach to get the other two to participate. My time is not the issue, I get paid for this, so I take as much time as I need. The time of the people God put on earth to do this is the issue raised by OP and seconded by myself.

my point is going back to the issue of “requirements”. They have validity and purpose, but the way they are carried out often fails in the real world, and I think that is what OP is getting at. The requirements in his parish or diocese were very carefully thought out to give the candidates the best possible preparation, to involve the parents in the sacred responsibility of preparing their children for sacraments–a promise they made at baptism–and so forth. So it gets very frustrating when neither the parents, the youth, or often even the parish at large seems to take any of this seriously.

There is a real “put your quarter in the machine and we will dispense the sacrament” mentality in a lot of what is going on under the “sacramental prep” umbrella. There is also a lot of criticism, and most of it right here on the forums, of the lack of preparation, the lack of knowledge of the faith, that youth are getting. So it makes it all the worse to know that these riches are there for them to have, yet they won’t claim them.

Another poster made the point, and it is extremely important, that it is not the catechist, DRE, sponsor, candidate or parent who prepares the child for confirmation–it is the Holy Spirit. Our job is to, insofar as humanly possible, place the youth in the best possible condition and atmosphere to cooperate with the action of the Holy Spirit. When they resist, it does get very discouraging.
 
Oh catechesis has always - and will always- be an issue. …Oh my, yes, catechesis is and will be a constant concern of all true pastors. It’s just that the last 40 years represent a stunning nadir in those efforts.
Then your parish must surely be blessed to have you as one of their volunteer catechist to assist in providing more orthodox catechesis. 👍
 
Could I ask a real dumb question? I’m not trying to sound sarcastic, although I do reserve the right to revert to that at the right time:thumbsup: , but what in the name of Grace does journaling have to do with preparation for confirmation, RCIA or anything else for that matter? I mean, is there really a purpopse for it or is it just some excuse for a rudimentary form of self examination?

I can’t figure it out.
 
my point is going back to the issue of “requirements”. They have validity and purpose, but the way they are carried out often fails in the real world, and I think that is what OP is getting at. The requirements in his parish or diocese were very carefully thought out to give the candidates the best possible preparation, to involve the parents in the sacred responsibility of preparing their children for sacraments–a promise they made at baptism–and so forth. So it gets very frustrating when neither the parents, the youth, or often even the parish at large seems to take any of this seriously.
It is exceptonally frustrating having to deal with parents and confirmandi with a lack of interest. Part of it is the cascading effect of poor catechesis from one generation to the next.

But I think the other issue has to do with how many parishes often catechize without evangelizing. It is oftentimes not enough to just prepare someone for a sacrament without also helping them in their own relationship with God. Many teens (and adults in our parishes) lack an intentional relationship with God, and helping them grow in that relationship will also help them receive the full graces of the sacrament. That relationship gives life to all of the theology and catechesis that they have learned.

I know folks have disparaged confirmation retreats in this thread, but as a retreat director and someone who helps form teens in their faith, well-planned retreats are often critical moments for helping young men and women build their relationship with God.

Some folks have often said, rightly so, that the grace of the sacrament is present whether or not a confirmand is “getting it” or on fire for God. But that doesn’t mean that our default position should be to not worry about their formation. Why wouldn’t we want to give each confirmand a firm foundation in their faith, the right preparation for the sacrament, and the opportunities to grow in their relatiomship with God? Sure the graces in the sacrament will unfold as they start to take their faith journey seriously–so why not help them draw on those graces earlier instead of just expecting that they’ll come back to their faith when they have kids of their own?

Keith

There is a real “put your quarter in the machine and we will dispense the sacrament” mentality in a lot of what is going on under the “sacramental prep” umbrella. There is also a lot of criticism, and most of it right here on the forums, of the lack of preparation, the lack of knowledge of the faith, that youth are getting. So it makes it all the worse to know that these riches are there for them to have, yet they won’t claim them.

Another poster made the point, and it is extremely important, that it is not the catechist, DRE, sponsor, candidate or parent who prepares the child for confirmation–it is the Holy Spirit. Our job is to, insofar as humanly possible, place the youth in the best possible condition and atmosphere to cooperate with the action of the Holy Spirit. When they resist, it does get very discouraging.
 
Re: Journaling and service work

In our diocese the confirmandi also have a journaling requirement, which actually serves a very good purpose. Each student is to record when/where they attended Sunday Mass, who the celebrant was, what the Gospel reading was about, and then from listening to the Gospel and the Homily offer some thoughts on how what they heard applies to their daily lives. In the class I teach (for a parish I don’t even belong to - but that’s a whole other story), we also read the Gospel for the coming Sunday and discuss it a bit in class - so they should hear each Gospel reading twice. As a catechist, you quickly get a sense of who attends mass regularly and of those, who actually pays attention!

Our diocese also requires the students perform some service hours - most parishes I know of have quite a wide variety of activities that are considered service work and any volunteer work the kids perform for the parish counts towards their total hours. They are also encouraged to help out at one of the local soup kitchens or perform some kind of outreach work, but it’s generally not a mandatory thing. The whole point of this is to help them realize that being a Catholic entails more than just showing up on Sunday…their faith needs to be put into action by learning to perform the Corporal and Spiritual Works of Mercy in their day-to-day lives.

This does seem to be a ‘bad’ year though for committment. The mother of one of my students just pulled her and her siblings out of classes due to these ‘onerous’ requirements. Such a sad example for a parent to show their children. :confused:

Jennifer
 
I think OP said he was preparing 7th graders, presumable for confirmation in 8th grade. Ours are confirmed in 10th grade. The age is all over the map. No need to discuss age for confirmation, we have done it a hundred times on other threads. My point is that by the time kids get to jr hi their parents are burned out from the high level of participation modern parenting seems to demand. I don’t know what changed since we raised our kids but parents have raised the bar themselves, and placed burdens on themselves that are artificial, and I don’t know who is to blame.

Parents feel they have to attend every school function, every soccer game, every t-ball practice, enroll the kid in 2-3 activities every semester, spend most of their waking hours in a van driving kids to manufactured play opportunities. Not to mention the cost of the shoes and equipment for all these activities.

When did play become so organized?

this is not really off topic, I am making a point, confirmation, CCD, PSR whatever is usually regarded as just another extra-curricular activity and has to compete on that level. Most jr hi parents seem to be so unengaged in their child’s life, maybe as a reaction to over-involvement in the earlier years, or just burn-out. I don’t know because I don’t get it at all.

We have our love & life program in Jr Hi, which is designed to be parent-child learning and interaction on the topic of Christian Sexual Morality, most parents don’t even bother to come to the info session, let alone participate in the parent sessions. How on earth could a parent allow anyone, even in CCD, discuss this topic with their child and not participate?

Jr Hi is also the group where we have the most kids standing around waiting for rides after CCD for up to an hour. What kind of parent leaves a kid on a street corner in the winter for an hour? granted weather is warm, and we wait with them (which is more than they do at the public school–I see kids standing outside the Jr Hi at 9 when I am driving home, not a soul around.)

I don’t know if we are discussion a sacramental issue or a parenting issue here. but I can say the purpose of the confirmation journal is a healthy spiritual practice that is helpful to any maturing Christian, and one–not the only–purpose of the confirmation journal is for the teen to write about things and clarify his thoughts on issues he wants to discuss with parents and sponsor. the ideal is that he sits down with them and they have a conversation about what is in the journal, and the events or issues discussed in the journal. The “program” builds in “quality time” as a gift for candidates and parents, but what is intended as a gift is regarded as a burden. How sad.
 
Alright, I’m confused now… a few people objected to me saying that confirmation is a sacrament for adults, and that people shouldn’t be forced into it. It seems that there are two camps: those who see the graces that one gets from confirmation, and relizing that they would be very useful and good for a person to have access to, say, essentially, that as many people as possible should be confirmed, no matter whether they really want to be or not. Then there are those who see that confirmation, in the Roman Catholic church at least, is a rite of innitiation, where the confirmandi stands before the congregation and says “Yes, I do believe!”

Forgive me for saying so, but it seems those in the first ‘camp’ wish to force these graces on everyone in the class, reguardless of whether they are old enough or prepared enough to know that they will be receiving graces, and commiting to the Catholic faith. Please correct me if I’m wrong, but if the confirmadi sees this rite as something that finally ‘frees’ them from Sunday school and from ever attending church again, will they be likely to call on those graces? On the flip side, it kind of belittles the choice people like me made, who understood the sacrament, knew they wanted to be a full member of the Catholic church, and accepted the graces from the sacrament. To think that, no matter whether I really wanted to or not, reguardless of whether I understood, I would have been forced to under-go this rite, is mildly insulting.
Please correct me if I misunderstand???
 
It’s not those receiving who “confirm” their belief in the Church, the Sacraments. Instaed in Confirmation they receive the necessary graces to make this happen.
Thank you! I am so tired of hearing that Confirmation means, “We’re confirming our faith”. UGH
—KCT
 
After reading all these threads, I am left wondering what happened to being a soldier of Jesus? According to the Catholic Encyclopedia:
Confirmation
A sacrament in which the Holy Ghost is given to those already baptized in order to make them strong and perfect Christians and soldiers of Jesus Christ.
I don’t know about everyone else, but the main thing I remember from my Confirmation in 1959 was that I was enrolled in the Army of Jesus Christ. I was entering into adulthood and expected to defend the Faith and even die for the Faith if necessary. I know that we prepared, but I sure don’t remember all the lessons. I do remember that the Bishop slapped each of us to remind us that we would face adversity as Catholics. I don’t remember any keeping of journals or community service, (sounds like punishment for some trangression, doesn’t it).

I don’t know, but it sounds to me like Confirmation has been turned away from the Holy Ghost into another exercise in building “community” in the spirit of VII. Maybe we ought to get back to the thought that Confirmation is receiving the Holy Ghost so we can go out as missionaries and soldiers with the grace the the Apostles received at Pentecost. A militant Church, Proud & Loud.
 
After reading all these threads, I am left wondering what happened to being a soldier of Jesus? According to the Catholic Encyclopedia:

I don’t know about everyone else, but the main thing I remember from my Confirmation in 1959 was that I was enrolled in the Army of Jesus Christ. I was entering into adulthood **and expected to defend the Faith and even die for the Faith if necessary. I **know that we prepared, but I sure don’t remember all the lessons. I do remember that the Bishop slapped each of us to remind us that we would face adversity as Catholics. I don’t remember any keeping of journals or community service, (sounds like punishment for some trangression, doesn’t it).

I don’t know, but it sounds to me like Confirmation has been turned away from the Holy Ghost into another exercise in building “community” in the spirit of VII. Maybe we ought to get back to the thought that Confirmation is receiving the Holy Ghost so we can go out as missionaries and soldiers with the grace the the Apostles received at Pentecost. A militant Church, Proud & Loud.
This is why Confirmation classes should be apologetic in their approach. They should come out with answers and ready to defend the truth of the faith. The first people they could explain the faith to is their parents.
 
I was confirmed in the seventh grade. All I remember was my CCD teacher playing Simon and Garfunkel’s song “I Am A Rock” and trying to tell us that it has meaning for us for Confirmation (am I dating myself, or what?)

Despite going to classes (six weeks worth - no journaling, no retreat, no pillow talk “sharing”, no service projects), I had no idea what confirmation was all about. I went because my parents put me there. I didn’t understand the Mass and the ceremony or why the Bishop was touching my face, in the same way that I didn’t understand the Real Presence in Holy Communion for many years after I received my First Communion.

Today, neither of my confirmed parents go to Church, for various reasons. On the other hand, I have a devout, active faith. I love the Catholic Church, try to live Her precepts, and my husband and I have raised four confirmed children in the faith, with the help of Catholic education and the Holy Spirit.

Yeah, my catechesis was bad. We’ve come a long way since then, thank goodness. But I still received God’s Grace in Confirmation, ignorant or not. And I thank God for it, because I know His Spirit got me through more than one serious situation as young woman. I’m glad He didn’t wait for me to give Him the “okay” for His Graces to kick in!

That’s what I hope for every kid that comes for Confirmation, whether they’re there because they want to be wholeheartedly, or if their there with less enthusiasm. At least their parents have brought them, like mine did.
 
Then your parish must surely be blessed to have you as one of their volunteer catechist to assist in providing more orthodox catechesis. 👍
Why Thank you. No doubt the entire Church is blessed to have your blog and widely disseminated insight.👍
 
Thank you! I am so tired of hearing that Confirmation means, “We’re confirming our faith”. UGH
—KCT
Not to be totally off-topic, but YES!!! There would be no journaling or service requirements if the Powers That Be realized it is a GIFT of the Holy Spirit, and the bishop (or his delegated priest) confirming the baptism.
 
After reading all these threads, I am left wondering what happened to being a soldier of Jesus? According to the Catholic Encyclopedia:

I don’t know about everyone else, but the main thing I remember from my Confirmation in 1959 was that I was enrolled in the Army of Jesus Christ. I was entering into adulthood and expected to defend the Faith and even die for the Faith if necessary. I know that we prepared, but I sure don’t remember all the lessons. I do remember that the Bishop slapped each of us to remind us that we would face adversity as Catholics. I don’t remember any keeping of journals or community service, (sounds like punishment for some trangression, doesn’t it).

I don’t know, but it sounds to me like Confirmation has been turned away from the Holy Ghost into another exercise in building “community” in the spirit of VII. Maybe we ought to get back to the thought that Confirmation is receiving the Holy Ghost so we can go out as missionaries and soldiers with the grace the the Apostles received at Pentecost. A militant Church, Proud & Loud.
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head my friend. By the way, you and I were confirmed very close to each other, so I know exactly what you are referring to.

Todays CCD and RCIA programs are almost universally aimed at community building at the expense of good firm catechisis. One of the reasons I came on this forum in the first place was because a good friend of mine was going through the process, RCIA and I was appalled at what he was and more importantly was not being taught. Apparently the only thing that is constant is that the community angle is stressed repeatedly and just about anything Pre Vatican II is disparaged and mocked as being either flat out wrong or totally outdated…

An interesting note. This year, their RCIA program had only one applicant. They turned him away saying, are you ready for this, since there was no one for him to share his progress on the journey with, there was no real reason to go through the procedure. 👍 They told him to either wait a year or go find another Church.👍 Pretty cool huh? I thought it sucked.

Apparently at least in that Church, the communal angle trumps what might happen to your soul. Of course, if you look at the entire thrust of the faith these days to many, it is towards improving life on earth, not with the salvation of your soul and eternity. And if having a better life on earth is what the faith is really all about these days, then it looks like all going according to plan.
 
I Todays CCD and RCIA programs are almost universally aimed at community building at the expense of good firm catechisis.n.
any chance that we could stop lumping all “today’s CCD and RCIA programs” together and making such rash generalizations. If you do not participate in ALL today’s RCIA and CCD programs you can’t really make these statements, can you? You can only speak of a couple of parishes with which you or your friends are familiar. So let’s tone it down a bit.

OP was asking for help with his program, which he is attempting to make everything it should be for the benefit of his candidates, and bemoaning the fact that they and their parents do not seem to appreaciate either the excellence of what he is offering, or the sacrament itself. Now we seem to have turned that discussion into a rant about “today’s CCD and RCIA programs” and how bad they are. Could we get back to OP’s topic and you folks who gripe but do nothing to make the situation better can have your own thread.
 
this is indeed an excellent tape, and I can heartily recommend all his programs, however, we have tried many of his audio and video programs with teens, and they just do not work very well. What gets rave reviews in adult sessions, just blows over the teens, especially the younger ones in Jr Hi. An audio tape is good for about 5 min. a time in a small class setting, absolutely useless in a large group. A video with a lot of action is good for 10 min, jr hi, 15 min top HS. A talking head video, even with as good a presenter as this one, simply does not make any impression at all on these kids.
 
any chance that we could stop lumping all “today’s CCD and RCIA programs” together and making such rash generalizations. If you do not participate in ALL today’s RCIA and CCD programs you can’t really make these statements, can you? You can only speak of a couple of parishes with which you or your friends are familiar. So let’s tone it down a bit.

OP was asking for help with his program, which he is attempting to make everything it should be for the benefit of his candidates, and bemoaning the fact that they and their parents do not seem to appreaciate either the excellence of what he is offering, or the sacrament itself. Now we seem to have turned that discussion into a rant about “today’s CCD and RCIA programs” and how bad they are. Could we get back to OP’s topic and you folks who gripe but do nothing to make the situation better can have your own thread.
Wow. I guess you told me huh. I responded to the original poster a long time ago, and I said that maybe the parents weren’t interested or maybe the program was lacking or maybe the program was too focused on other things rather than confirmation… I seem to remember journaling as being one of requirements along with lots of community service, and if so, I can definitely understand why many would not be enthralled with the program. I also said that the program existed for them not those running it.

I was responding to another poster, with a valid observation that I have from a whole lot more than how did you say it several parishes. I actually look into this stuff. I question people, catechists, Directors of Religious Education etc, to see what they are teaching and what methods they use. Not just here in San Diego, but all over the United States.

And I never said all of them. I said almost universally they aim at community building at the expense of the sacraments. I stand by that statement.

Show me that I am wrong in that assessment, and I will gladly retract my statement.
 
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