Need help on a Religion question

[outfctrl]

ok, I didnt tell all of you my story. I am legally divorced and have been for over 10 years. I was married in the Catholic Church. My wife committed adultry and asked for the divorce. I gave it to her. She married within 2 days after it was final.
I never got an annulment because I didnt have the $600.00 to do it. From what I understand, I am still married per the Catholic church.

Am I excommunicated? I really want to get back to my religion, but I feel like I am not wanted by the Church.

 

[puzzleannie]

ok, I didnt tell all of you my story. I am legally divorced and have been for over 10 years. I was married in the Catholic Church.

From what I understand, I am still married per the Catholic church.

Am I excommunicated? I really want to get back to my religion, but I feel like I am not wanted by the Church.

no you are not excommunicated unless you have committed some offense that carries excommunication as a consequence (such as performing an abortion or assisting an abortion). You may have separated yourself from communion with the Church and with your fellow Catholics, by remaining away from the sacraments, or if you have ever committed a mortal sin and never confessed it and asked for absolution from a priest. That unfortunately is a scenario many or most of us go through as adults, for whatever period of time. An mortal sin being any grave offense against the commandments, murder, adultery, persistant impure habits etc.

Nobody hear has any authority to make such a judgement, for that you talk to the priest.

I doubt very much if in 10 yrs, if it was something you really wanted to do, you could not have raised $600 to cover your share of the expenses entailed in an annulment proceeding (your diocese covers the lion’s share), but if you were truly in need the fee would have been lowered or waived.

Your marriage is considered valid by the Church until proven otherwise, if the facts are as you state, and you are not free to marry anyone until that matter is judged by the marriage tribunal. Again, this is a response to facts as stated here, which is has no authority or weight in an individual situation.

See your priest, find out what you need to do to be reconciled with the Christian community and to be restored to Christ’s grace in the sacraments. Open yourself up to the immense gifts Christ is holding out to you with open arms.

questions about marriage are supposed to be discussed on the Sacraments and Liturgy forum, I thought I was coming back to a discussion on OSAS (which actually belongs on the non-Catholic religions forum anyhow).

all I wanted to say to OP was that a search under the keyword OSAS on the non-Catholic religions or Apologetics forum would yield the answer to question in OP

 

[outfctrl]

Sorry…I am new to this forum and there were so many different areas to post, I got a little confused on where to post. It wont happen again.

 

[carol_marie]

Sorry…I am new to this forum and there were so many different areas to post, I got a little confused on where to post. It wont happen again.

Not a problem. We are happy you are here!

God Bless,
CM

 

[Texas_Roofer]

I wish I knew less about this subject

1. Which section of Baptist is she? See some teach the Catholic Church is evil and that could be a deal breaker for you.
2. How Baptist is she (and her family)? If they are strong believers and in the anti-Catholic section you should move on.
3. OSAS is to Baptist what Eucharist is to Catholics- the center of the religion, But it gets worse evangelization is to Baptist what Mass is to Catholics, so a good Baptist believes he has to convert you.
4. Many Baptist preachers have a giant insecurity issue when they become educated and find their bible is a Catholic translation.
5. Many Baptists split in the period between 1850 and 1960 in those splits the extreme sections were formed. Depending on which section she is in you may need to look at their history, specifically what drove their split. See this displays part of your problem Baptist simply form a new church to control their religion, something you will never be able to accept.

I would suggest you sit down with her and tell her there is a problem here, also I would suggest you repeat this with her pastor. It may not go well but you need to uncover the truth before you obligate your self to live it every day for the rest of your life. You may also find the problem is not that sever

 

[ecp007]

I was baptized Catholic as a child, attended Catholic school for 12 years and Mass my entire life, married a Catholic and am doing my best to raise 2 Catholic faithful children. However, the Catholic schools and churches where we live are surprisingly non-faith filled and are turning out agnostic kids left and right. To supplement our Catholic faith, we often go to bible study Wednesdays and Sundays at the 1st Baptist Church in our area. We have been doing this for over a year, so I feel pretty qualified to answer this question.

They say: Mutual Fellowship.

What they mean: YOU must denouce your Catholic Faith: Mary, the Saints, the Pope, the Eucharist, Confession, The Rosary, Advent, Lent, Stations of the Cross… all of it - out the door & become Baptist. (which will mean getting re-baptized because they don’t belive your first baptism meant diddly).

This is simply not true!

All of the Baptist in my Bible study, including the Pastor, know that we are Catholic, and attend Catholic mass weekly, and they still believe that we are “saved & born again”. In their opinion, Jesus came to earth to save us, and not to start a religion. Therefore, anyone who gets hung up on what religion are you, is missing the point entirely.

The issue they have with Mary & the Saints is their misinterpretation of our prayers to them. The second commandment talks against idle worship, and because they see Catholics creating images and praying seemingly to them, they think this is a sin. When I explained that our prayers are to the Mary and the Saints asking them to pray to God for us through intersession, they understood this, and were less judgemental about it. Ditto for the rosary, Stations of the Cross, or images and icons.

They do have a real problem with the Pope and with Priest in general as the Bible says that only Jesus can bring a person to God, so they don’t like the idea of having to go through this middle man, its the same problem they have with Confession. They believe in confessing your sins, but think this should either be a public communal confession out loud, or should be directly between you and God, not through a priest.

Baptists celebrate advent, with an advent wreath 4 weeks before Christmas just like we do. They have communion, although it is clearly not the Body of Christ as we believe it, but more of a commemoration.

When you study the two faiths deeply, Catholics believe 99% of what Baptist believe, plus we have additional practices such as a liturgical Mass, written prayers, the idea of patron Saints for different causes, and the entire veneration of the Virgen, etc.

Now, I do agree with the OP, that their idea of salvation OSAS is a little weird. But I have had many discussions on the topic, and I can see why they think so. The idea is that human nature is sinful. None of us are without sin, so that if you think that you must be without sin to go to heaven, no one would get in heaven, except through the mercy of God. So if you believe that Jesus Christ came to earth to die for forgiveness of our sins, then you accept his salvation, and will go to heaven. They believe that salvation is a “free gift” from God, that can not be earned.

They have weird beliefs about earning “jewels in heaven” and different “levels of heaven” depending upon what kind of life you lead. And, they can show you passage and verse that discusses these things. It is the one thing about the Baptists that I summarily disagree with. I believe that salvation is a free gift from God, that can not be earned, but you can reject that gift by committing a sin. Sin is a rejection of God’s grace. The other think I can not live without is the Eucharist, which is why we go to Mass every Sunday although we really have problem with the priests.

Other than that, I have found the Baptists at this church to be truly living a Christian life, and I have grown in my relationship with God through fellowship with them. They are serious thinkers, that discuss and study the Bible, and live a life in pursuit of Christian ideals. I have found that many Catholics I know do not take their faith as seriously, and think that if they go to Mass every Sunday, and confession once per year, then they are good, without really living Christianity day in and day out, and seeking a closer relationship with God.

I suggest going to Baptist Bible study, and then discussing what you learn with your Girlfriend afterwards. Through my discussions with my Baptist friends, I have been able to explain my positions, as have they, and we have both grown closer to God because of it. Through this practice you will be able to determine if the differences are too large to be able to build a family upon.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

I was baptized Catholic as a child, attended Catholic school for 12 years and Mass my entire life, married a Catholic and am doing my best to raise 2 Catholic faithful children. *However, the Catholic schools and churches where we live are surprisingly non-faith filled and are turning out agnostic kids left and right. *To supplement our Catholic faith…

You may be Baptist as the OP may, please do not claim these actions are Catholic

They do have a real problem with the** Pope **and with Priest …

As do you? but if you are Catholic how can you expose your children to this?

When you study the two faiths deeply, Catholics believe 99% of what Baptist believe,…

Please do some research on why this is

Now, I do agree with the OP, that their idea of salvation OSAS is a little weird.

yet you are teaching it to your children

So if you believe that Jesus Christ came to earth to die for forgiveness of our sins, then you accept his salvation, and will go to heaven. They believe that salvation is a “free gift” from God, that can not be earned.

so are you rejecting the Trinity? are your children? or would you like to say they teach it in the Baptist Sunday School?

…which is why we go to Mass every Sunday although we really have problem with the priests.

I have found the Baptists at this church to be truly living a Christian life…

that can only be true if you are Baptist

I suggest going to Baptist Bible study, and then discussing what you learn with your Girlfriend afterwards. Through my discussions with my Baptist friends, I have been able to explain my positions, as have they, and we have both grown closer to God because of it. Through this practice you will be able to determine if the differences are too large to be able to build a family upon.

?? The OP is free to be Baptist if he desires, thank you for the recruiting invitation - how about reading my earlier post focus on #3

 

[carol_marie]

I was baptized Catholic as a child, attended Catholic school for 12 years and Mass my entire life, married a Catholic and am doing my best to raise 2 Catholic faithful children. However, the Catholic schools and churches where we live are surprisingly non-faith filled and are turning out agnostic kids left and right. To supplement our Catholic faith, we often go to bible study Wednesdays and Sundays at the 1st Baptist Church in our area. We have been doing this for over a year, so I feel pretty qualified to answer this question.

.

My prediction: Your children will grow up to prefer the Baptist Church over the Catholic one… it’s more fun, interesting, they have friends there… etc. etc. - eventually they will decide they “don’t get anything out of going to mass” and they will get re-batized as Baptists. They will marry Baptists & raise Baptist children and your great-grandchildren, when questioned, will say I think way back when, somebody in my family was Catholic… but I’m not sure about that.

 

[Rawb]

The second commandment talks against idle worship, and because they see Catholics creating images and praying seemingly to them, they think this is a sin.

The way the Protestants number them, yes, but Catholics list the second commandment as “You shall not take the name of the Lord, your God, in vain.”, and add the prohibition against idol worship in with the first commandment.

So even though you see much of the religion as being the same, here is a concrete difference that you’ve absorbed and may not even be aware of. There are theological reasons why we number the commandments differently as well, having to do with traditional views of women and possesions, lust and envy. You’re learning Protestant Theology and mixing it up with Catholic Theology. IMO, you’re walking a very thin line. (Unless you meant to say “their second commandment”, or assumed we would all understand what you meant. Sorry if that’s the case).

 

[CALDE]

that only Jesus can bring a person to God, so they don’t like the idea of having to go through this middle man

,
Have them read Numbers 21,7. There they’ll find that the Israelites asked Moses to intercede to God for them.

 

[Syele]

While it’s very possible that your GF is in some sect believing in Antinominism, but I think it’s more likely she just has no clue how to explain assured salvation.

Read and understand the 5 points of Calvinism to understand better. While they believe they are assured salvation reguardless of what they do, they also believe that they were chosen by God to be the elect. Elect people of God would not purposely sin in the first place. If they see a self-proclaimed Baptist going around murdering people and not being repentant they’ll say the person was never saved to begin with, and therefore going to hell.

If her family is not staunchly anti-Catholic you should explain to them that you believe Jesus Died on the cross for your sins and that you strive to live as He would want you to every day. For many, that would satisfy them.

 

[ecp007]

Because you were baptized as an infant, you are not born again…at least in their eyes.

To be born again is to accept Jesus as your “personal” Lord and Savior. You would need to be re-baptized in their church as an outward sign of your inward devotion. However by doing this you would be turning away from your faith as a Catholic.

Kelly,

This is simply not true.

As a Catholic, I accepted Jesus as my “personal” Lord and Savior during my Confirmation, when as an adult I repeated my Baptismal promise, renounced Satan, and received the Holy Spirit.

FYI, in the early church, there was only one sacrament for Baptism & Confirmation & Eucharist, not three. This was the single sacrement of initiation. As the Church grew, it became impossible for the Bishop, who had to give the Confirmation part of it to make it around the entire diocese every year. Therefore, to avoid children dying prior to being accepted into the Church, the Church separated the sacrament, allowing anyone in the Church to Baptize, but still requiring the Confirmation to be given by the Bishop.

americancatholic.org/Newsletters/CU/ac0301.asp

Every Catholic sacrament has 4 parts:
Biblical - where it is mentioned in the bible
Christolic - The role that Christ plays
Humanistic - the role that we play.
Ecclesiastic - Church logistics

The first 3 never change, as they came from God, the last one, changes depending upon the needs of the Church (similar to how Communion used to be given only by a priest, and now we have eucharistic ministers.)

So our Baptism / Confirmation is equivalent to the Born Again baptism. Again, there is a lot of confusion, and misinterpretation on both sides, but if you really study it, we are more the same, then different.

 

[ecp007]

My prediction: Your children will grow up to prefer the Baptist Church over the Catholic one… it’s more fun, interesting, they have friends there… etc. etc. - eventually they will decide they “don’t get anything out of going to mass” and they will get re-batized as Baptists. They will marry Baptists & raise Baptist children and your great-grandchildren, when questioned, will say I think way back when, somebody in my family was Catholic… but I’m not sure about that.

This may be the case, but at least they will be Christian. The children of the Catholics in my city, who go to Mass every Sunday, and go to Catholic school every day state that they are agnostics by the time they are in 9th grade, have no relationship with God whatsoever, and stop going to Mass once it stops becoming a requirement to being in Catholic school (9th grade). Believe me, I’ve done quite a bit of research, interviewing many teenagers from many different Catholic schools, and they all have pretty much the same apathetic, uninformed attitude.

Jesus said “Seek and Ye Shall Find”. My family and I are actively seeking a deeper relationship with God on a daily basis. I trust Him, to help us “Find”.

 

[ecp007]

You may be Baptist as the OP may, please do not claim these actions are Catholic

I am Catholic, and I am not claiming my actions are Catholic, I am claiming my actions are mine.

As do you? but if you are Catholic how can you expose your children to this?

I think it is much easier to teach my children about the Pope and his infalibility, than to unteach apathy - which is what they were learning in the Catholic school. I went to the best Catholic school in Miami, and have the strongest faith because of it. That is not what there is in the city/county I live now. Hopefully, you are not exposed to what I have been here. We have visited every Church in the county, and spoken to /emailed kids from all the Catholic high schools, and 5 of the Catholic elementary schools. Academics are very strong, and faith is very weak. It has been my biggest disappointment in moving to this community.

Please do some research on why this is

I have, quite a bit actually, have you???

yet you are teaching it to your children

No not really. I’m teaching my children that faith is important enough to dedicate a significant amount of time to studying it. The bible study gives us a weekly / daily opportunity to discuss the tenants of our faith. And again, in elementary school, what they are taught is basic bible stories and Christian character traits. I have not had any conflict with any of it.

so are you rejecting the Trinity? are your children? or would you like to say they teach it in the Baptist Sunday School?

I’m sorry, I don’t follow you. Baptists believe in the Trinity, the teaching in the trinity that I have been exposed to, is identical to what we believe as Catholics.

that can only be true if you are Baptist

Are you saying that as a Catholic, you are incapable of identifying Christian (that is Christ like) behavior?

?? The OP is free to be Baptist if he desires, thank you for the recruiting invitation - how about reading my earlier post focus on #3

I think that through my conversations with the Baptists, more of them have come to be convinced of Catholic doctrine, than I have of Baptist doctrine. “Seek and ye shall find”, I have faith in the Holy Spirit that if I seek with a sincere heart, I will come to a deeper relationship with God. I have faith in God, that if both the OP and his girlfriend seek God, they will find Him.

 

[ecp007]

1. OSAS is to Baptist what Eucharist is to Catholics- the center of the religion, But it gets worse evangelization is to Baptist what Mass is to Catholics, so a good Baptist believes he has to convert you.

Per your request, I read this #3.
I agree that OSAS is the center of their religion, and I as I stated, the Eucharist is the center of mine, which is why I continue to go to Mass.

However, the last I heard evangelization was everyone’s responsibility… that is not / should not belong to evangelicals, and if it is, that does not really bode well for the success of the Catholic church.

I’m sure as you say there are different kinds of Baptist - less and more extreme, but at least the ones that I know only need you to “Accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior”. Once you explain that you have already done this, then there is no longer a need to “convert” because you are already “saved”. As I said, even the Pastor knows we attend Mass every Sunday, and they have no problem with this, they are just glad to have more people seeking to live a Christian life.

 

[CALDE]

The children of the Catholics in my city, who go to Mass every Sunday, and go to Catholic school every day state that they are agnostics by the time they are in 9th grade, have no relationship with God whatsoever, and stop going to Mass once it stops becoming a requirement to being in Catholic school (9th grade). Believe me, I’ve done quite a bit of research, interviewing many teenagers from many different Catholic schools, and they all have pretty much the same apathetic, uninformed attitude.

Jesus said “Seek and Ye Shall Find”. My family and I are actively seeking a deeper relationship with God on a daily basis. I trust Him, to help us “Find”.

If the children have an apathetic, uninformed attitude, then the blame should be shared with the parents, who are the first catechists and therefore, are not complying with their religious responsibility as Catholic Christians. These parents should take a more active role in nurturing their childrens faith and look for better resourses where they can better educate themselves as well as their children in the Catholic faith. We as parents cannot drop-off our children to religious school and expect to not be part of the learning atmosphere.

This may be the case, but at least they will be Christian.

Yes they will be Christians, but we as Catholic Christians have all the truths and all the tools(Sacraments) we need given to us by Christ for our salvation. They as Baptists will not have this. In the world we live in we need all the help we can get and in the Catholic Faith it is there available at our fingertips.
Moreover they will not have the Eucharist which gives us life saving grace and brings us to everlasting life.
We believe in everything that Jesus said and did , we believe in the Apostolic Tradition. Baptists don’t.
We believe that we must show our faith in Jesus through our deeds, and outwardly show our love for Him through our “works”, our action towards our brothers. Baptists believe that they are saved by faith alone. How many parables do we have to read or letters by St. Paul or St. John or St. James or read in the Old Testament, that literally state that it is through our DOING that we are saved.
The Baptists like so many other protestant religions donot read or study the bible in its entirety, They only pick the parts that will justify their beliefs. But if they did then they would see that much of what they say they believe in has no foundation. If they would study the bible as we do then there would be more converts to Catholisism.

As I said, even the Pastor knows we attend Mass every Sunday, and they have no problem with this, they are just glad to have more people seeking to live a Christian life.

Unfortunately, this is just part of the plan to win you over or worse your children. It might not happen now but you will see it later with at least some of your children.

We must work with-in our Church in order to make it better. We mustn’t work outside of it; For then we are walking in the same steps as M. Luther did.

We will pray for you!!!

May God give you the wisdom to see clearly, strenghen your faith and give you the gift of discernment to do what is best for you and your family.

 

[ecp007]

If the children have an apathetic, uninformed attitude, then the blame should be shared with the parents, who are the first catechists and therefore, are not complying with their religious responsibility as Catholic Christians. These parents should take a more active role in nurturing their childrens faith and look for better resourses where they can better educate themselves as well as their children in the Catholic faith. We as parents cannot drop-off our children to religious school and expect to not be part of the learning atmosphere.

I find it so funny that you say this, which is precisely what I am doing, and then you criticize me for doing just that.

I have repeatedly asked my son’s Catholic school to:

1. add religious books to the Summer reading list
2. provide Vacation Bible Camp for kids during the summer, similar to what the Christian churches do, or at least include some sort of religious (name removed by moderator)ut during the summer camp
3. Not show PG rated movies to 1st graders

The text books are ridiculously liberal, with definitions such as:

1. Judicial Branch: Determines which laws are right and wrong (instead of which laws are constitutional … duh, this book is saying that the Supreme court has the authority to say that Abortion is Right)
2. Citizens: Any person living in a community - I’m the child of an immigrant, but clearly being a US citizen entails more responsibilities than simply residing in a town

They celebrated Oprah Windfrey during African American month for “her fame” and “her wealth”.

The library has many, many, many wicca books, including books with spells and incantations. The librarian is Jewish.

I could go on and on. I brought all of this and more to the attention of the principle, the monsigner, and I copied the ArchBishop. Nothing changed, so I pulled my son.

In his non-denominational Christian school, the religious education is right on - conservative, Christian character traits and morals, focusing on building a relationship with God.

As a parent, I am teaching my kids about the sacraments, and taking them to Mass every Sunday. It is much easier to teach these things, which as you say are truth, and make sense anyway, then it is to reprogram all of the other garbage being taught at the Catholic school.