Need help on HHS Mandate

[iloveangels]

Sorry, I wasn’t clear.

By changing the primary reason for a Catholic from ‘serving the poor’, to ‘evangelizing the poor’ - perhaps it is possible that the charity would fall under the religious exemption to the HHS mandate.

Do you actually know what the 4 conditions for getting an exemption actually are? NO, this is not enough.

Read CAREFULLY: cacatholic.org/index.php/issues2/religious-liberty/conscience-rights/190-background-mandated-contraceptive-and-sterilization-coverage

 

[iloveangels]

Maybe so, but I think they would lose all of their government subsidies. I thought that people who work for places like Catholic Community Services weren’t allowed to evangelize because they were accepting government money. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

You are not wrong. That has been one of the conditions in some of these agreements. No one apparently has asked the obvious question: If we are a Church, why are we elevating social work above teaching about salvation and God?

This birth control thing is so easy to solve. All Obama would have to do is make birth control coverage optional instead of mandatory. Most insurance companies would probably choose to cover it anyway because they know it is cheaper to pay for birth control than to pay for babies. An organization connected with the Catholic Church wouldn’t have to include it in their coverage if they were self-insured.

If they were not self-insured, they could probably find an insurance company that chose not to cover it.

That’s not going to happen. Not at all. That runs completely contrary to the whole point of the law in the first place.

 

[benjohnson]

Do you actually know what the 4 conditions for getting an exemption actually are? NO, this is not enough.

Read CAREFULLY: cacatholic.org/index.php/issues2/religious-liberty/conscience-rights/190-background-mandated-contraceptive-and-sterilization-coverage

Yow… the charity would basically not only have to fire most non-Catholic employees they could basically tend to only Catholic poor.

There’s a part of me that would completely understand if Catholics circled the wagons and tended to their own - this country doesn’t seem to appreciate you as much as we should.

I’m deeply sorry this election didn’t go the way it needed to, and I look forward to joining you in the Stand Up for Religious Freedom marches. My family had the joy to join Catholics and others this last October.

 

[iloveangels]

Yow… the charity would basically not only have to fire most non-Catholic employees they could basically tend to only Catholic poor.

Yup. You now see the problem.

There’s a part of me that would completely understand if Catholics circled the wagons and tended to their own - this country doesn’t seem to appreciate you as much as we should.

I’m deeply sorry this election didn’t go the way it needed to, and I look forward to joining you in the Stand Up for Religious Freedom marches. My family had the joy to join Catholics and others this last October.

Lutherans may end up with problems too. If I remember correctly, you have thinks like book publishing firms and insurance companies, correct? And don’t you guys have Concordia University or something like that?

 

[benjohnson]

Yup. You now see the problem.

Lutherans may end up with problems too. If I remember correctly, you have thinks like book publishing firms and insurance companies, correct? And don’t you guys have Concordia University or something like that?

Yep… we just won a supreme court decision where the administration tried to tell an LCMS school who we had to hire. A lot of volunteer chaplains are withdrawing from the military, because they’re telling them what to preach, and even though we don’t share the Catholic teaching on birth-control products (we allow NFP and barriers), we certainly share the unwillingness to fund abortions.

More of our charity is directed to the third-world, so we’re don’t has as many hospitals. We do have plenty of schools though - the LCMS is second only to the Catholic system.

 

[wondrousgnat]

I received, a couple of days ago, a flyer from my insurance company. It is the senior advisor plan because I am at that age. My rate is going up for contraceptive services. At my age it is not a worry.

 

[Gorgias]

I received, a couple of days ago, a flyer from my insurance company. It is the senior advisor plan because I am at that age. My rate is going up for contraceptive services. At my age it is not a worry.

This is one of the not-entirely-obvious side effects of this coverage. Consider, for a moment, a university who provides health care coverage for its students. Now imagine the financial impact of providing mandatory contraceptive coverage for this population. Tuition hikes? Yep. Impact to state-supported university funds? Yep (and yet again, there go my tax dollars, (indirectly) funding contraception and abortion!).

 

[iloveangels]

This is one of the not-entirely-obvious side effects of this coverage. Consider, for a moment, a university who provides health care coverage for its students. Now imagine the financial impact of providing mandatory contraceptive coverage for this population. Tuition hikes? Yep. Impact to state-supported university funds? Yep (and yet again, there go my tax dollars, (indirectly) funding contraception and abortion!).

That’s not the issue, Gorgias.

 

[iloveangels]

Yow… the charity would basically not only have to fire most non-Catholic employees they could basically tend to only Catholic poor.

There’s a part of me that would completely understand if Catholics circled the wagons and tended to their own - this country doesn’t seem to appreciate you as much as we should.

I’m deeply sorry this election didn’t go the way it needed to, and I look forward to joining you in the Stand Up for Religious Freedom marches. My family had the joy to join Catholics and others this last October.

Benjohnson,

I"m not sure what will happen, to be honest, but in my opinion we’d ought to circle the wagons, as you say, yes. We need to do a far better job of knowing who our own really are, and then taking care of our own. They have to come first. You can’t give what you don’t have.

 

[Ridgerunner]

There are some truly vicious consequences of the Obama Mandate. For one, these sisters will have to provide contraceptive/abortifacient coverage for THEMSELVES as well as for anyone they might hire, because they help pregnant and post-abortive women regardless of religion.

sistersoflife.org/

Look through their site. What a perverse outfit this administration is to insist that they:

1. Pay for contraceptives and abortifacients against conscience, or
2. Abandon helping women who are not Catholic, or
3. Pay an enormous fine for not providing the coverage, or
4. Pay a smaller, but still large fine for having no coverage on themselves at all.

My understanding is that they will be dropping coverage on themselves, because they can’t afford #3 and won’t do #1 or #2. And they are not the only religious order that will be facing these choices.

Some Catholic schools will be able to remain open, but not those who accept non-Catholic students or hire non-Catholic teachers. Catholic charities who aid non-Catholics will have to comply with the mandate. Catholic hospitals will either have to secularize or close.

And some people don’t think this administration is anti-Catholic to its core?

 

[JimG]

The charitable and social work done by Catholic organizations is an essential part of our faith. The corporal works of mercy are not optional. Many religious orders exist for the sole purpose of serving the poor. But if they serve any poor who are non-Catholic, the organization can not be exempt from the mandate.

In order to be exempt from the mandate, a religious organization must
1–Have the inculcation of religious values as its main purpose.
2–Employ only persons who share its religious beliefs
3–Serve only persons who share its religious beliefs
4–be a non profit organzation under provisions of the IRS code.

Now Catholic institutions, because of their religious tenets, do not serve just Catholics, but everyone. That means that they must violate their Catholic beliefs, or pay a fine, or go out of business.

Yes, this is a thoroughly anti-Catholic mandate. It violates the conscience of quite a few other religious organizations and private employers as well.

 

[iloveangels]

The charitable and social work done by Catholic organizations is an essential part of our faith. …

ONLY IF THEY ARE DONE FOR THE RIGHT REASONS. Secular reasons are not the right reasons. It’s very CLEAR in SCRIPTURE WHY we do these things, and secular utility is NOT the reason.

In order to be exempt from the mandate, a religious organization must
1–Have the inculcation of religious values as its main purpose.
2–Employ only persons who share its religious beliefs
3–Serve only persons who share its religious beliefs
4–be a non profit organzation under provisions of the IRS code.

Correct.

Now Catholic institutions, because of their religious tenets, do not serve just Catholics, but everyone. That means that they must violate their Catholic beliefs, or pay a fine, or go out of business.

Has the Church ALWAYS included non-Catholics in ALL their efforts? If not, why not? And if not, do you also want to say the Church was not obeying the Gospel for all that time? Hmm?

Yes, this is a thoroughly anti-Catholic mandate. It violates the conscience of quite a few other religious organizations and private employers as well.

Don’t give up your insurance–providing you don’t work in one of these institutions. They haven’t told you to do that, have they? No. And they’re not going to either. Because if you don’t work for the Church, this is not about you. Not really.

It’s really about the USCCB. This is going to be quite a surprise, and very confusing, to many Catholics as this rolls out over the next year. If you listen to Cdl Dolan very carefully, you’ll hear that he’s referring to the USCCB in his comments, not you or me, or the secular companies either of us work at.

Rather, it’s about all the times that the USCCB, and the religious congregations who own these huge multi-million dollar CINO institutions, have said one thing and done another. It’s all coming home to roost now. Just watch.