Need help reconciling

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angell1

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hi everyone,

i have something on my mind.

a lot of things that we take for granted as ok today were severly condemned by early christians. for example, musical instruments, dancing, theater, sports and a lot of such things. how do we reconcile that with today’s view that these things are ok themselves if taken in moderation? if anyone has read the early writings, you probably know what i mean. sorry, don’t feel like posting a bunch of quotes here today. any thoughts?
 
I don’t really know what you mean. I don’t recall that early Christians were against those things. The Church used the theater and morality plays to teach Christian doctrine. What musical instruments were rejected by the early Church?
 
When you say “early Christians,” do you mean early Catholics (First Century) or early protestants (Sixteenth Century)? Because everything you mention is specific to protestant (and especially Calvinist) theology.
If anyone has read the early writings, you probably know what i mean.
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I’ve read the early writings of both Catholics and protestants. I only “know what you mean” if you intend to refer to early (Sixteenth Century) protestant theology. Calvin is particularly noted for forbidding the use of any musical instruments that were not specifically mentioned in the Bible. The restrictions on dancing (for example, as depicted in the movie Footloose) are all protestant ideas (the kid in the movie made a killer-good case for the school dance using Sola Scriptura, but still lost to the teachings of Jean Calvin. The Catholic Church has never been encumbered by Calvin’s non-Biblical ideas).

Before submitting my reply, I cross-checked myself in Jurgen’s Doctrinal Index (under Sin/Personal Sin), and I found nothing related to the activities you mentioned in any of the writings of the Early (Catholic) Church Fathers.
 
I’ve never heard of this either—but I’m always interested in learning something new–so of you can provide quotes or links, I’d actually enjoy the homework of looking them up! Thank you!👍
 
While I have never heard of the catholic church being against anything you have mentioned, I do understand what you are trying to ask overall. I believe at one time, such things as root-cutting (pharmacology), meteorology, beautification of the eyes/face (makeup), astronomy, alchemy and other forms of magic, etc. were seen as forbidden knowledge and mankind should not take part in any of them, yet in modern times, it is not seen as a bad thing for women to wear makeup, or anyone to take certain prescriptions from a pharmacy.

These things were said to have been taught to man by the fallen angels, and the fact that in modern times, many of these things are seen as commonplace and accepted is proof that majority of society has forgotten what God wants us to do and what he does not want us to do. While I dont think any of these things alone led to the state of the current world, but combined with everything else we have forgotten and abandoned, this would only lead to one type of world…it will only get worse. I have a sneaky feeling in the near future, some things will start to be accepted by society that we would not believe today.

You have to ask yourself, had the people living in ancient times been told there would be a time in the future when the killing of unborn babies would be acceptable and protected by law, or the acceptance of homosexuals, even allowing them to marry one another, also protected by law? (Im sure others can come up with some other examples too), I would say these people living back then would not have believed this.
 
DavidFilmer said:
When you say “early Christians,” do you mean early Catholics (First Century) or early protestants (Sixteenth Century)? Because everything you mention is specific to protestant (and especially Calvinist) theology.

I’ve read the early writings of both Catholics and protestants. I only “know what you mean” if you intend to refer to early (Sixteenth Century) protestant theology. Calvin is particularly noted for forbidding the use of any musical instruments that were not specifically mentioned in the Bible. The restrictions on dancing (for example, as depicted in the movie Footloose) are all protestant ideas (the kid in the movie made a killer-good case for the school dance using Sola Scriptura, but still lost to the teachings of Jean Calvin. The Catholic Church has never been encumbered by Calvin’s non-Biblical ideas).

Before submitting my reply, I cross-checked myself in Jurgen’s Doctrinal Index (under Sin/Personal Sin), and I found nothing related to the activities you mentioned in any of the writings of the Early (Catholic) Church Fathers.
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there is this articale i read on a catholic website

catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=9134

i was talking about the early catholics. if you have any insight on this matter, i would like to hear it.
 
JM3 said:
I believe she is talking about this:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11351737&postcount=1
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If that’s the case, then the link from Catholic Culture referred to in that post pretty much explains the history of the matter. There is, for example, this: “The vehemence of the polemic against instruments is primarily accounted for by the association of musical instruments with sexual immorality.” But the article gives a much more detailed description and history. It’s not as if liturgy and liturgical thinking must remain the same for 2,000 years. Conditions change. I think most people might still complain about music and dancing if a highly sexualized rock group were to perform in the sanctuary!

This is much ado about nothing. It’s worth historical study, not a one line post.
 
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