Need help with 2 Timothy 3:16

[Acecrusader]

All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness

-2 Timothy 3:16

I’ve seen protestants use this. I know the bible itself was complied later but they may not accept. It’s easy to explain this verse says nothing about authority but to use scripture to be “profitable for teaching”. What was the “Scripture” in Paul’s day and how do you further show protestants on this that it’s not the bible itself?

 

[pianistclare]

From Haydock’s Commentary:
Ver. 16. All scripture divinely inspired is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, or admonish, to instruct others in justice, and in the ways of virtue, that thus he who is a man of God, a minister of the gospel, may be perfect and instructed unto every good work. But when our adversaries of the pretended reformation, undertake from these four verses to shew, first, that every ignorant man or woman is hereby warranted to read and put what construction his or her private spirit, or private judgment, suggests upon all places of the holy Scriptures; and secondly, that the Scriptures alone contain all truths which a Christian is bound to believe; or at least, that the Scriptures teach him all things necessary to salvation, without regard to the interpretation and authority of the Catholic Church: I may at least say (without examining at present any other pretended grounds of these assertions) that these consequences are very remote from the text and sense of St. Paul in this place. As to the first, does this follow; the Scriptures must be read by Timothy, a priest, a bishop, a man of God, a minister of the gospel, whose office it is to instruct and convert others, therefore they are proper to be read and expounded by every ignorant man or woman? Does not St. Paul say elsewhere, (2 Corinthians ii. 17.) that many adulterate and corrupt the word of God? does not St. Peter tell us also, (2 Peter iii. 16.) that in St. Paul’s epistles are some things…which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as also the other scriptures, to their own perdition? See the preface to the Gospel of St. John, where reasons are brought for which it was requisite that the Church should put some restraint to the abuse which the ignorant made of reading the Scriptures in vulgar tongues. As to the second consequence, does it follow: every Scripture divinely inspired is profitable for St. Timothy, for a priest, a bishop, a man of God, a minister and preacher of the gospel, to teach and instruct, and conduce to bring both him and others to salvation; therefore they contain all things that a Christian need to believe? &c. Is not every Christian bound to believe that the books in the canon of the New and Old Testament are of divine authority, as in particular these two epistles of St. Paul to Timothy? Where does the Scripture assure us of this? But of this elsewhere. (Witham) — Every part of divine Scripture is certainly profitable for all these ends. But if we would have the whole rule of Christian faith and practice, we must not be content with those Scriptures which Timothy knew from his infancy, (that is, with the Old Testament alone) nor yet with the New Testament, without taking along with it the traditions of the apostles and the interpretation of the Church, to which the apostles delivered both the book and the true meaning of it. (Challoner)

 

[JoshuaIsLord]

First show them that Scripture is a Catholic Word derived from the Latin Vulgate Bible from the word Scriptura

2Ti 3:16 omnis scriptura divinitus inspirata et utilis ad docendum ad arguendum ad corrigendum ad erudiendum in iustitia

The original Greek word means document

2Ti 3:16 AllG3956 scriptureG1124 is given by inspiration of God,G2315 andG2532 is profitableG5624 forG4314 doctrine,G1319 forG4314 reproof,G1650 forG4314 correction,G1882 forG4314 instructionG3809 inG1722 righteousness:G1343

G1124 γραφή graphē graf-ay’
From G1125; a document, that is, holy Writ (or its contents or a statement in it): - scripture.

Scripture is a lazy borrow from the Latin. ergo

2Ti 3:16 All documents is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Then explain that the letter of Timothy was written prior to Paul’s Death ~ 67 AD and that Revelation was written until sometime after 90 AD.

So when Timothy was written the only know Documents ( holy writ ) were the Alexandrian and Palenstinian Canons of the Old Testament. And none of the these were comprised in a Book persei, but in separate Scrolls as was the norm of the day.

 

[DaveBj]

Saying that all Scripture is inspired by God is like saying that all dogs have four legs. (I’m assuming normal dogs here.)

Saying that only Scripture is inspired by God (the sola scriptura position is like saying that only dogs have four legs.

II Timothy 3:16 takes the former position.

D

 

[CatholicSpirit]

That author or any author that speaks on the Books of Timothy isn’t fit to comment until they find that he was admittedly a horrible sinner himself. Lashing out about “ignorant” and “vulgarity” somehow perverting the scriptures. I really take immediate notice of people who don’t understand what they are reading and that is the biggest indicator.

I suggest background on the author before the “I’m holier than thou” online commentaries. God chose him for a reason.

 

[De_Maria]

Here’s the way I do it.

I say, the epistle known as the 2nd Letter of St. Paul to St. Timothy (2 Tim for short), has nothing to do with Sola Scriptura.

2 Tim is about preaching and teaching. Let’s go over it.

St. Paul exhorts St. Timothy to give oral testimony

Chapter 1 verse 7

For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. 8Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;

St. Paul commands Timothy to teach others to teach.

Chapter 2 verse 2

And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.

Let’s skip over chapter 3 for now:

Another exhortation to preach.

Chapter 4: 2

Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

The whole book is about preaching and teaching!

Do you really want me to believe, that throughout the epistle of 2 Timothy, St. Paul is telling Tim to preach and teach, but in Chapter 3 verse 15-16 he changes and tells him to pass out Bibles? That seems far fetched to me. But lets study the verse in its immediate context.

cont’d

 

[De_Maria]

cont’d

What is the immediate context of the 2 Tim 3:16? Let’s look at some of the verses leading up to it.

It remains, oral teaching. Listen. We’ll begin in verse 10:

Chapter 3 verse 10

But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,

I have taught you and you have learned.

Skip to verse 14

But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

So practice what you have learned considering from whom you have learned them.

verse 15

And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Now, think about this carefully. Does a child have to know how to read in order to know the Scriptures? In my house, my children and I meditated on the Scriptures since before they knew how to read. So I know that the answer is, “No.”

Now, let’s break down the verse itself

Chapter 3 verse 16

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

All scripture is given by inspiration of God,

Is that true? Yes. Remember what St. Peter said:

2 Pet 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

So, all Scripture is inspired. But that doesn’t say that Scripture alone is inspired. It says that men were inspired to PREACH. Yes, to PREACH. These men then turned around and wrote down the Scripture.

To say that Scripture is inspired by God is a short hand manner of speaking which means that men who were inspired by God to preach His Word, and then wrote the Scripture.

and is profitable for doctrine,

Profitable for doctrine. But profitable does not mean necessary.

for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Is it fair to ask who is doing all this reproving, correcting, and instructing in righteousness? Is it not a teacher? If so, does this verse not assume the existence of a Magisterium and thus support the Catholic Doctrine of handing down Tradition by an appointed Teacher, (Magisterium means Teacher).

Bottom line

The entire book of 2nd Timothy is about preaching, teaching and handing on Tradition. 2 Tim 3:16 does not support Sola Scriptura. It supports the Catholic model of handing on the Word of God by Tradition and Scripture in accordance with the consistent Teaching of the Church.

 

[Kei]

Scripture would have been the Old Testament, most likely the Greek Septuagint.

I agree with the text, but taking it to mean we can all interpret Scripture validly is silly.

 

[Mintaka]

Haydock isn’t lashing out. And he was definitely not high and mighty! George L. Haydock was a member of an English Catholic family that suffered under persecution; he even had martyrs in his family. He became a Catholic priest at a time when it was very difficult to be a priest in England, and he served country Catholics in rural places.

Haydock completed his Commentary as a newbie priest at his first assignment, Ugthorpe, where he also had to build a chapel and all the parish buildings. His commentary met a crying need for something Catholic, recent, and in English. (It also included a lot of apologetics points, as you just found out.) But if you really want a full commentary that talks about everything at length, Haydock would be the first to tell you that he isn’t it. (He would probably have gone to Fr. Cornelius a Lapide’s Great Commentary, if he had a copy and could afford the giant tomes.)

Wikipedia currently has a nice article about Haydock and his commentary. Some parts are an illustrated version of the Catholic Encyclopedia entry, but that’s not a bad thing! However, there is also a lot of new info or hard-to-get info. Somebody put a lot of work into it.

As for what the Timothy comment says, it’s not radical. I’m an educated person, but I had to learn a lot about the Bible before I could really understand it. I still misunderstand it in places, so it’s good that I have the Church to teach me. As the Ethiopian eunuch who was reading Isaiah, said to St. Philip, “How can I understand unless someone teaches me?”

So of course I don’t have the power to define what the Bible says, or to tell other people to follow my interpretation. Anything I say that contradicts the Church over the ages, you should just ignore.

UPDATE: Actually, Haydock did the Old Testament, but couldn’t work fast enough to do the New Testament. So a bunch of guys under Fr. Benedict Rayment did the New Testament part; it’s just called the Haydock Commentary because they released it as a single project, together. (And the publisher was Thomas Haydock, Fr. George’s brother.)

So any objection to the phrasing of the Timothy commentary should be directed to Fr. Rayment!

 

[Carmel]

All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness

-2 Timothy 3:16

I’ve seen protestants use this. I know the bible itself was complied later but they may not accept. It’s easy to explain this verse says nothing about authority but to use scripture to be “profitable for teaching”. What was the “Scripture” in Paul’s day and how do you further show protestants on this that it’s not the bible itself?

Timothy 1:3.15 states " but in order that thou mayest know, if I am delayed, how to conduct thyself in the house of God which is the Church of the living God, the pillar and mainstay of the truth."
Paul is clearly saying that the authority resides within the Church .

 

[po18guy]

“All scripture” and not “scripture is all” Those who rely on this twist are well-meaning, but often not the most intellectually curious.

Like, where did the Sacred Table of Contents come from? Neither do some of them ponder the immensity of writings that had to be sorted through and vetted.

There is no arguing with most of these folks. We can pray and hope to plant a seed.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness

I am utterly perplexed as to why anyone would think this opposes Catholic teaching.

 

[Kei]

Did you reply to the wrong person or did it send me the message that you replied wrongly?

 

[Glark]

All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness-2 Timothy 3:16. I’ve seen protestants use this. I know the bible itself was complied later but they may not accept. It’s easy to explain this verse says nothing about authority but to use scripture to be “profitable for teaching”. What was the “Scripture” in Paul’s day and how do you further show protestants on this that it’s not the bible itself

It seems to me that this verse is referring to the Old Testament, as the canon of the NT wasn’t finalised until hundreds of years later. Furthermore, it doesn’t say Scripture is all one needs; it merely says Scripture is “profitable”.

The passage also says Scripture can render one “fully equipped for every good work.” As far as I know, there is more to Christianity than doing “good work”.

 

[BartholomewB]

Furthermore, it doesn’t say Scripture is all one needs; it merely says Scripture is “profitable”.

Exactly so. What’s wrong with sola scriptura is not the scriptura, it’s the sola.