Need help with Islam.....

  • Thread starter Thread starter Gospel
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
G

Gospel

Guest
Can anyone direct me to a complete collection of documents regarding the chu4ches stance and dealings with Islam? I would like information from the earliest documents up to the most recent. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
To start you off, Islam does not believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross. From their telling, Allah says that he made it appear to the Christians and Jews that Jesus was crucified, but at that moment made a clone or image of Jesus instead and that Jesus was saved as a messenger of God. So what doesn’t make sense about this is why Allah would contradict himself if he is the same god of the Jews and Christians. Another thing to be fishy about is Muhammed never had any miracles like Muslims would have you believe. In fact, in their Qua’ran, people specifically ask Muhammed why he has no miracles. His answer is that Allah had sent signs in the past to the Jews and Christians, but that no one believed them so Allah does not send signs for Muhammed. This is really fishy. Jews do not recognize Allah as the same Yahweh. And niether should Christians; because of the way Allah speaks of the Crucifixion.
 
Collegepak–the poster was asking for documents, not your personal opinions.

A lot of what you said isn’t even true–Muhammad did have miracles and Jews do understand that Allah is the same God as in Judaism and Christianity. Even Christians understand that. Arabs use the same name for God–Allah–whether they are Muslim, Christian, or Jewish.

To the original poster–I’m sorry, but I’m not able to answer your question either. I just felt the most recent post required a response.
 
No i think you are wrong sister. Allah is not the same as Yahweh. If he was, why 700 years later would mention of Jesus/Crucifixion come up only once, and in that one instance, Allah says Jesus was a fake and did not die upon the Cross. For Christians, this is heresy and goes against our whole reason for believing in Jesus as the Son of God. Jews and Christians are alike in so far as we share the same tradition of Yahweh, but we deviate as to who is the messiah. Allah claims no messiah, only messenger.
 
And no, the orthodox Jew does not consider Allah as the same as Yahweh. It’s the Muslims that make this claim. Remember Abraham? he had a concubine named Hagar cause his first wife could not bear children. Hagar runs off to the desert and their story is God continues with that illegitimate lineage. This is where the Orthodox Jew will not accept any lineage other than that of Issaac. Which makes sense. It’s from this bloodline that we Christians claim Jesus is from that same line of Kings.
 
From their telling, Allah says that he made it appear to the Christians and Jews that Jesus was crucified, but at that moment made a clone or image of Jesus instead and that Jesus was saved as a messenger of God.

**This is not opinion, but standard Mahometan teaching.

Of course, if Jesus didn’t die on the Cross, then you don’t have to deal with His Resurrection, now do you?

A dead man only needs to be buried.

Someone who rises from the dead by his own power is in a position to make non-negotiable demands.

I confess there is no God but Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and Jesus is God Incarnate risen from the dead.**
 
All this website says is that they are using the same word. But if you read the Qua’ran, they are not the same God, meaning there are contradictions and thats why the orthodox Semite Jew, not some reform khazarian, will tell you they are not. The Qua’ran does not say Christ is the savior of the world. It only refers to him in the Hadiths as ‘that Christ man’. Now This is where it gets really really fishy as to who is right. My saying that Allah is not the same God as the Christian God doesn’t imply either way who is right, I’m still trying to figure that out myself. Muslims only believe in one God, and see Christians as deifying his messenger so in that much they are wrong. They do not see the Trinity the same way Christians do and can justify using both OT and NT. The Muslim tradition does not use all of the OT like we do, but develop books of ritual practices which are very specific as to supernatural powers and the spirit world. That is not what you get in western tradition. Church as institution eventually kill all ‘pagan’ religions or shamanism and hoard this type of mystic knowledge for themselves, keeping literacy rate down and giving spiritual knowledge in bits and kibbles. Muslims see the Catholic Church as a satanic institution who’s platonistic theory of the world has led to a self-interested scientific outlook on life. They will even make a connection between the Trinity and occult practices of the Osiris, Isis, Horus paradigm, and between the Cult of Aton and the Vatican. IE, St Peter’s faces east towards the rising sun with a huge obelisk or statue of Pindar, or penis of Osiris erected within a circular/zodiac court. There is much much more, but don’t take my word for it, go look for yourself. This is why their Allah is not the same as ours. But like I said before, for myself I’m trying to figure out who’s telling the truth. at the moment I’m more inclined to be on the side of the one who posted before this one.
 
Jesus healed the blind, the lepers, and raised a man from the dead. So Jesus isn’t the only man to be resurrected according to Christianity.

All the same, in Islam, Jesus never even died–just was raised straight up to heaven!

And that is the extent of what Muslims teach, because that is the extent of what Muslims are taught in the Qur’an.

Was someone else crucified? That is speculation, no proof for it in Islam… speculation.
 
Sister, you still don’t understand. This is a problem that can’t be solved with a feel good attitude. This is strict scriptural analysis type stuff. Thats why our priests are stoic hard asses, because at this level its hard to pin down who’s telling the truth. No the Muslim Jesus is not the same as the Christian Jesus. The reason why the Jesus story is so unique is not because he just goes to heaven via divine action; that story has been already played out via the OT prophets. ITS THAT JESUS DIES FOR OUR SINS AND THEN RESURRECTS AFTER 3 DAYS. If he did not die and show he had power over death, there would be no early Christians martyred by crucifixion outside the Roman gates by the hundreds. THIS IS WHY WE BELIEVE, BECAUSE GOD CAME DOWN TO SHOW US HOW TO LOVE AND THAT IT EXISTS THROUGH HIM.
 
Sister_Amy said:
Was someone else crucified? That is speculation, no proof for it in Islam… speculation.
Click to expand...
No proof in Islam as nothing clear in Islam with regard to Jesus’ crucifixion! The Koran only denies that the person crucified was the same person as Issa/Jesus, but cannot even present any good theological reason for such a denial that goes against basic Christian tenets as well as secular history.

It is the silence and obscurity of that particular Koran verse - denying the crucifixion - which give rise to new speculations everyday. 😉

Peace,
Angelos N.B.
 
I’m bowing out. Can’t any of you answer the original question?
 
fine i’ll just say it. The original poster’s question is stupid because if he’s looking for an answer to that question here, he’s looking in the wrong place. And if he can’t help himself already, no one can.

The Church doesn’t have a legitimate stance since Vatican II. Vatican II turns God into a pantheistic God. And not one which recognizes Jesus as God Son.
 
Where did you christians got to know about crucifixtion of jesus and after that lying his body in a stone slab.rather than burried him. And i thought most of the christians didnot celebrates christmas and easter. Where all those stories come from. First search on that than come to some conculsion. Bible has so many writers do not you think that it will be mistyped by the writers who ever those are apostles, saints , disciples who ever those are. Those disciples are not john the baptist and jesus pbut like. They were like simple person who could made the mistakes. Where as Quran Allah/God promises as same promises like that he is not going to destroy any humankind like Nuh(NOah) people. So Allah/God never turns from his promises. So Alllah/God promises for to keep the Quran security till the judgement day. And in Quran its say so about people of the books they changed it if you bless to read Quran it will say about people of the books. I know there is lots of warnings for people of the books but you have to make those verses aside and read with open not hard heart. Hope you understands that. Rest will be discuss later . And please read 99 names of Allah/God to know your God better what his characteristics and nature is. Please try to find the meaning of 99 names of Allah/God. Thanks that will most answer will solve to you by that.Type in google 99 names of Allah.
 
Gospel said:
Can anyone direct me to a complete collection of documents regarding the chu4ches stance and dealings with Islam? I would like information from the earliest documents up to the most recent. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...
Islam wasn’t born from a heresy within the church, so I can’t imagine why the church will need to specifically speak out against it. The fundamentals speak for themselves.

The church teaches that Jesus is the Son of God. Islam denies it (see Qur’an 5:17).

The church teaches that Jesus was crucified. Islam denies it (see Qur’an 4:157).

There is no confusion. The faiths are completely opposite. So the church does not need to clarify anything.
 
Charlie_Zeaiter said:
Islam wasn’t born from a heresy within the church, so I can’t imagine why the church will need to specifically speak out against it. The fundamentals speak for themselves.

The church teaches that Jesus is the Son of God. Islam denies it (see Qur’an 5:17).

The church teaches that Jesus was crucified. Islam denies it (see Qur’an 4:157).

There is no confusion. The faiths are completely opposite. So the church does not need to clarify anything.
Click to expand...
After Prophet Muhammad PBUH any prophet, messenger, and messiah came out from Middle East. Where all prophet came from. And your bible tell that there will be some other prophet or messenger are going to come. Did your bible and torah say so that he will be the last prophet. Well were you going to find it coz its all bible is scattered and torah in ark of convenant which is disappeared from the scene
 
collegepak said:
The Church doesn’t have a legitimate stance since Vatican II. Vatican II turns God into a pantheistic God. And not one which recognizes Jesus as God Son.
Click to expand...
Name one of the Vatican 2 documents that specifically refers to God as pantheistic. Nowhere in the docs does it say that. What the docs do state is the that the Church recognises other faiths as a valid search for God, and that many faiths have share similar views on God. The last 2 popes - JP2 and B16, who were both present at Vatican 2 affirmed the recognition of other faiths but did not that it contradicted the Vatican 2 to also state that Catholic Church to be only one true Church.

Nowhere does the Catholic Church teach that Jesus is not God’s son.

The poster asked for information/docs about the Church’s relationship with Islam. This is a Catholic website - why shouldn’t he ask his q here? The issue is too complex for him to ‘help himself’ as u suggest.
 
tomshaikh said:
After Prophet Muhammad PBUH any prophet, messenger, and messiah came out from Middle East. Where all prophet came from. And your bible tell that there will be some other prophet or messenger are going to come. Did your bible and torah say so that he will be the last prophet. Well were you going to find it coz its all bible is scattered and torah in ark of convenant which is disappeared from the scene
Click to expand...
Believing in more prophets to come is almost interesting. But why you believe Muhammad is a prophet is something very unconvincing.
 
tomshaikh said:
So Alllah/God promises for to keep the Quran security till the judgement day.
Click to expand...
The Koran became corrupted within one generation after the prophet Mohammed - there were so many version of the Koran that Calipth Uthman (sorry for the spelling) ordered the compilation of the book from the memories of those who know Mohammed. He then proclaimed this Koran to be the one dictated to the prophet by the angel Jibril and ordered all other copies to be destroyed. Therefore, Uthman imposed *his own * version of the Koran on the muslims.

And I needn’t mention that the Koran gets it wrong about the Trinity being made up of God, Jesus and Mary. None of the early Christians (even the Gnostics) ever described the Trinity in this way. The Christians on this forum can correct me on this.
 
tomshaikh said:
Where did you christians got to know about crucifixtion of jesus and after that lying his body in a stone slab.rather than burried him. And i thought most of the christians didnot celebrates christmas and easter. Where all those stories come from. First search on that than come to some conculsion. Bible has so many writers do not you think that it will be mistyped by the writers who ever those are apostles, saints , disciples who ever those are. Those disciples are not john the baptist and jesus pbut like. They were like simple person who could made the mistakes. Where as Quran Allah/God promises as same promises like that he is not going to destroy any humankind like Nuh(NOah) people. So Allah/God never turns from his promises. So Alllah/God promises for to keep the Quran security till the judgement day. And in Quran its say so about people of the books they changed it if you bless to read Quran it will say about people of the books. I know there is lots of warnings for people of the books but you have to make those verses aside and read with open not hard heart. Hope you understands that. Rest will be discuss later . And please read 99 names of Allah/God to know your God better what his characteristics and nature is. Please try to find the meaning of 99 names of Allah/God. Thanks that will most answer will solve to you by that.Type in google 99 names of Allah.
Click to expand...
We definitely know more than you Muslims on this issue since
the only verse in the Koran denying Jesus’ crucifixion fails to answer all of our questions and secular history is on our side.

Do some search on the net to find out how Jews of the first century Palestine buried their dead.

It was Mohammad’s scribes who distorted the Bible so as to create their own Scripture full of mistakes.

As for biblical authors supposedly making mistakes, their humanity does not necessarily mean that their writings are full of errors since they were inspired by God’s Spirit to give testimony to Christ and His Good News. If you really believe that human writers cannot transmit accurately what God says, stop believing in Mohammad! He was pure human too! How can you claim that a human could teach others the alleged divine revelation accurately and perfectly? Please be fair.

Peace to all,
Angelos N.B.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top