Need help with Islam.....

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Oh, for crying out loud! Come on people, I am not looking to start WWIII here:mad: . I want links to what the church officially teaches about Islam. I want to know what the Church Fathers wrote about Islam, as well as what has been written recently. I want to avoiud what extraneous arguments about whatr Vatican II said or did not say.

Please don’t make this complicated. I just want to know the truth about what the church has taught about this religion.

Please stop the head butting, it is getting us nowhere. I am just trying to educate myself…
 
collegepak said:
fine i’ll just say it. The original poster’s question is stupid because if he’s looking for an answer to that question here, he’s looking in the wrong place. And if he can’t help himself already, no one can.

The Church doesn’t have a legitimate stance since Vatican II. Vatican II turns God into a pantheistic God. And not one which recognizes Jesus as God Son.
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Dear collegeshmuck (pac),

Please close your mouth and open your eyes. I am asking legitimate honest questions in hopes of obtaing official writings from the church regarding Islam. Whether you think my questions are relevant or not means little to me. I am after information, which from the sounds of your knuckles dragging on the floor would be something you would be incapable of understanding. :mad:

If you are unable to help me, that is fine, but please keep your rediculouse opinions to yourself. I did not ask for your opinion, just help on finding honest official information.:cool:
 
Gospel said:
Oh, for crying out loud! Come on people, I am not looking to start WWIII here:mad: . I want links to what the church officially teaches about Islam. I want to know what the Church Fathers wrote about Islam, as well as what has been written recently. I want to avoiud what extraneous arguments about whatr Vatican II said or did not say.

Please don’t make this complicated. I just want to know the truth about what the church has taught about this religion.

Please stop the head butting, it is getting us nowhere. I am just trying to educate myself…
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Dear Gospel,

The Church’s explicit teaching about Islam, I think it is in the Document called Lumen Gentium. I try to find out myself. I regret that I hold the book in one of our bookstore, but did not buy it. After I think I need that book, it was not on the shelf anymore.

BTW, Islam started at the year 600’s and of course the early church fathers prior to that date would not have anything to say about Islam.
 
Gospel,

Vatican II - Nostra Aetate says:
  1. The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.

Since in the course of centuries not a few quarrels and hostilities have arisen between Christians and Moslems, this sacred synod urges all to forget the past and to work sincerely for mutual understanding and to preserve as well as to promote together for the benefit of all mankind social justice and moral welfare, as well as peace and freedom.​

God bless,

Rony
 
I would have to assume that when Islam became a major religion that the Catholic Church had something to say about it. What did they say? What are the earliest Catholic writings that deal with Islam specifically?

I want to know how the early church dealt with Islam to compare with how it is dealing with it now. It appears that The Catholic Church has dealt much more harshly with the protestant revolt that the mess that is Islam.

Any documents that anyone can find and pass along would be greatly appreciated.
 
Gospel, that second link is written from an Orthodox standpoint, which may or may not make a difference.

John of Damascus wrote on Islam from a vantagepoint of soon after the conquest. This can be read online at orthodoxinfo.com/general/stjohn_islam.aspx

ETA: ronyodish beat me to it! Oh well.
 
Gospel,

I’m not sure if you’re interested in buying a book, but there is a book that features a debate that took place in 781 A.D. between Mar Timothy I, the Patriarch of the Church of the East, and the Abbasid Caliph Mahdi.

Here is the link: lulu.com/content/428057

God bless,

Rony
 
Charlie_Zeaiter said:
Islam wasn’t born from a heresy within the church, so I can’t imagine why the church will need to specifically speak out against it. The fundamentals speak for themselves.

The church teaches that Jesus is the Son of God. Islam denies it (see Qur’an 5:17).

The church teaches that Jesus was crucified. Islam denies it (see Qur’an 4:157).

There is no confusion. The faiths are completely opposite. So the church does not need to clarify anything.
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Say what you will, but when I went to a mosque and talked to one of their teachers (forgive me, Muslims, for not knowing the right title), he was one of the most open persons I ever met. He told me God is all about Oneness and that Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha (yes, Buddha!), and others, all spoke about the Oneness of God.

Maybe that’s not an “orthodox” belief in Islam, and maybe it doesn’t mesh with Christianity, but it was far more open than what I believed Islam was.

Besides, go read Rumi and tell me that man didn’t have Union with God. 'Nuff said.

Peace,
Mike
 
Gospel said:
… Please don’t make this complicated. I just want to know the truth about what the church has taught about this religion…
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But you are making it complicated. The church teaches about Jesus - and not Islam.
Gospel said:
… It appears that The Catholic Church has dealt much more harshly with the protestant revolt that the mess that is Islam…
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That’s probably because the protestant revolt was born out of the church. The church had to identify who were the heretics and dismiss them.

Islam is separate from the church. The church has no responsibility for Islam’s teachings.
 
Charlie_Zeaiter said:
But you are making it complicated. The church teaches about Jesus - and not Islam.

That’s probably because the protestant revolt was born out of the church. The church had to identify who were the heretics and dismiss them.

Islam is separate from the church. The church has no responsibility for Islam’s teachings.
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Let me note that I am not Muslim.

Islam is NOT separate from the Church. Yes, Catholics believe in Christ, the Messiah, but we both believe in the One God. If they believe in the God of Abraham, and we believe in the God of Abraham, what, at its core, is so different?

Wow, if we could settle this difference, how much less blood would be shed…

Mike
 
mike7795 said:
Say what you will, but when I went to a mosque and talked to one of their teachers (forgive me, Muslims, for not knowing the right title), he was one of the most open persons I ever met. He told me God is all about Oneness and that Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha (yes, Buddha!), and others, all spoke about the Oneness of God.

Maybe that’s not an “orthodox” belief in Islam, and maybe it doesn’t mesh with Christianity, but it was far more open than what I believed Islam was.

Besides, go read Rumi and tell me that man didn’t have Union with God. 'Nuff said.

Peace,
Mike
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Hi Mike,

Do you disagree with my post? Or do you agree that Islam denies Jesus as the Son of God and denies His crucifixion? (See Qur’an 5:17 and Qur’an 4:157.)
 
Charlie_Zeaiter said:
Hi Mike,

Do you disagree with my post? Or do you agree that Islam denies Jesus as the Son of God and denies His crucifixion? (See Qur’an 5:17 and Qur’an 4:157.)
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Hello sir,

I am denying neither. If you want to be technical, yes, I believe Islam denies that Jesus is the Son of God.

However, I do not believe that prevents Muslims from realizing Union with God.

Regards,
Mike
 
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