Need help with Matthew 18:20

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Any ideas on what Jesus is attempting to say in Matthew 18:20?

For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them

Someone asked me last night, “isn’t He always with us anyway?” I think this verse is frequently used out of context and that there is a deeper meaning, espacially when one looks at the previous verses.

"If your brother sins (against you), go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother. If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that ‘every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector. Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again, (amen,) I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything for which they are to pray, it shall be granted to them by my heavenly Father.

I would especially appreciate any insight from Church Fathers or Vatican documents.

God Bless,
Gary
 
gez722 said:
Any ideas on what Jesus is attempting to say in Matthew 18:20?

For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them

Someone asked me last night, “isn’t He always with us anyway?” I think this verse is frequently used out of context and that there is a deeper meaning, espacially when one looks at the previous verses.
I would especially appreciate any insight from Church Fathers or Vatican documents.

God Bless,
Gary

You are right that this verse is taken out of context. However, one must go back even further in the text to understand the context of the passage:

Matt 18:1-2
18:1 At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, “Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”

In this passage the disciples are trying to understand the principle of authority. Jesus continues on his frequent theme of service and humility in leadership. He explains that the leadership is to be cooperative and consensual. When he tells them to settle disputes by taking them “to the church” (note he does NOT say “to the scriptures” as is frequently done wrongly today) he means the disciples who are in union with one another and Himself. The early fathers bear out this understanding of Apostolic Authority.

Early Church Fathers on Bishops, Priests and Deacons

“Our Apostles knew through Our Lord Jesus Christ that there would be strife for the office of bishop. For this reason, therefore, having received perfect foreknowledge, they appointed those who have already been mentioned and afterwards added further provision that, if they should die, other approved men should succeed to their ministry.” (Pope St. Clement of Rome, Epistle to the Corinthians, 42:4-5, 44:1-3 [80 A.D.])

“Be subject to the bishop and to one another, as Jesus Christ was subject to the Father, and the Apostles were subject to Christ and to the Father; so that there may be unity in both body and spirit” (St. Ignatius of Antioch, Letter to the Magnesians, A.D.110, [13,1])

We can see before the NT canon was completed that the model was unity with the leadership appointed by Christ.

“Take care to do all things in harmony with God,** with the bishops presiding in the place of God and with the presbyters in the place of the council of the Apostles**.” (St. Ignatius of Antioch, Letter to the Magnesians, A.D. 110, [6,1])

The notion of the Vicar of Christ was not some late century inventin or “power grab” as many Protestants assert.

“Those, indeed, who belong to God and to Jesus Christ - they are with the bishop. Do not err, my brethren: if anyone follow a schismatic; he will not inherit the kingdom of God.” (St. Ignatius of Antioch, Letter to the Philadelphians, A.D. 110, [3,2])

“You must all follow the bishop as Jesus Christ follows the Father, and the presbytery as you would the Apostles. Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.” (St. Ignatius of Antioch, Letter to the Smyrnaeans, A.D. 110, [8,1])

“Indeed, when you submit to the bishop as you would to Jesus Christ, it is clear to me that you are living in the manner not in the manner of men but as Jesus Christ, who died for us, that through faith in His death you might escape dying. It is necessary, therefore, - and such is your practice, that you do nothing without the bishop, and that you be subject also to the presbytery, as to the Apostles of Jesus Christ our hope.” (St. Ignatius of Antioch, Letter to the Traillians, A.D. 110, [2,1])

“It is necessary to obey those who are the presbyters in the Church, those who as we have shown, have succession from the Apostles; those who have received, with the succession of the episcopate, the sure charism of truth according to the good pleasure of the Father. But the rest, who have no part in the primitive succession and assemble wheresoever they will, must be held in suspicion.” (St. Irenaeus, Against Heresies, A.D. 180, [4,26,2])

There is another thread running on apostolic succession, and I am going to post more over there, but this is my understanding of “two or more together”. Jesus intended this gathering to occur around and through the leadership He appointed.
Click to expand...
 
Laudatur Iesus Christus.

Haydock’s Catholic Bible Commentary, 1859 edition, makes some useful comments:

Ver. 19. *That if two of you. *From these words, we learn how superior is public to private prayer. The efficacy of the former is attributed to the presence of Christ in those assemblies. The Father, for his Son’s sake, will grant petitions thus offered. (Jansenius) — The fervour of one will supply for the weakness and distractions of the other.

Ver. 20. There am I in the midst of them. This is understood of such assemblies only, as are gathered in the name and authority of Christ; and in unity of the Church of Christ. (St. Cyprian, de Unitate Ecclesiæ.) (Challoner) — St. Chrysostom, Theophylactus, and Euthymius explain the words in his name, thus assembled by authority received from Christ, in the manner appointed by him, or for his sake, and seeking nothing by [sic; perhaps better as “but”] his glory. Hence we may see what confidence we may place in an œcumenical council lawfully assembled. (Tirinus) (St. Gregory, lib. vii. Regist. Epist. cxii.)

As these comments suggest, the key is probably in the phrase “in my name.” This requires conformity with the mind and intention of Christ. Prayer outside of this limit will not be granted. Mere invocation of the name “Jesus” will have no effect. “Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven," (Matthew 7:21).

Spiritus Sapientiae nobiscum.

John Hiner
 
Thanks for the insightful and detailed posts. I need to read over them a few more times as it’s still a bit unclear to me.

God Bless,
Gary
 
Compare with the Talmudic “Where two or three are gathered to discuss Torah, the Shekenah is in their midst.”
There was a lot of shock value in some of Jesus’ statements.

Matthew
 
I think, in a nutshell–we are each a child of God, with Jesus as our personal Lord, yet we are members of the Body of Christ, with Him as our head.

Both relationships to Christ are profound, but they are distinct.

Peace.
John
 
“Love is inconceivable if there is only one person: it implies the presence of two or more (cf. St. Thomas Aquinas, Comm. on St. Matthew, 18:19-20” - commentary from the Navarre Bible.

“The reason for the efficacy of the prayer of the community is the presence among them of Christ, whose prayer the Father always hears (Jn 11:42). In Judaism the rabbis taught that God is present in power wherever a group of believers is gathered for the sake of the Law. …] In the new dispensation Christ takes the place of the Law; whenever a group is gathered for his sake (‘in my name’) he himself, the presence of God among men (1:22-23), is there” - commentary from A New Catholic Commentary on Holy Scripture.
 
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