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kardon777
Guest
After presenting Rev. 6:29 as evidence to a Protestant that the dead are alive in heaven, I was informed by him that Rev. 6:29 is “mediforical.” 
What do I say to that one??
What do I say to that one??
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BrianH
Guest
Revelation 6:29?
Is this a typo perhaps and you are referring to a different verse?
Is this a typo perhaps and you are referring to a different verse?
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kardon777
Guest
Sorry if I got it wrong. It’s the one about the 24 elders. I’ll go look it up as soon as I get a free minute.
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Verbum
Guest
Hi Kardon,
I guess you (or he) meant “metaphorical”. In other words, it is “just a way of talking”. Well, the burden of proof is on his shoulders. Don’t fall into the trap.
You can also ask him about the parable of Lazarus and the rich man, where someone in hell talks with Abraham. (Luke 19)
Verbum
I guess you (or he) meant “metaphorical”. In other words, it is “just a way of talking”. Well, the burden of proof is on his shoulders. Don’t fall into the trap.
You can also ask him about the parable of Lazarus and the rich man, where someone in hell talks with Abraham. (Luke 19)
Verbum
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Della
Guest
And you can also cite Elijah and Moses talking to Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration. Both would have been coming from heaven, one had definitely died, Moses, and Elijah had been taken up. (Which also shows that the Assumption of Mary isn’t an isolated event.)
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ALLFORHIM
Guest
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BlestOne
Guest
AllForHim… Elijah was taken up…then came back to us (spiritually, not physically) as John the Baptist. Jesus tells us this in Matt 11:11-14Hi,
Im not sure about Elijah but Moses was not taken up. Dueteronomy 34: 5-6
11 “Truly I say to you, among those born of women there has not arisen anyone greater than John the Baptist! Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12 “From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and violent men take it by force. 13 “For all the prophets and the Law prophesied until John. 14 “And if you are willing to accept it, John himself is Elijah who was to come.
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scylla
Guest
There you go, you cannot win with this man as he will dismiss any evidence which goes against his preconcieved view.
Which then is the real question, can he be wrong on it being metaphorical? Is he infallible in his interpretation?
Or else he will just come up with another interpretation every time you prove him wrong and you will get no-where.
I would really suggest you spend 3 bucks and read this book. It is almost a necessary read if you are going to discuss the faith with non-catholics.
lulu.com/content/164117
Though some of his other material might not be very charitable, this book is a must for anyone who defends the faith or discusses it, along with Catholicism and Fundamentalism and The Catholic Controversy (St Francis).
God Bless
Scylla
Which then is the real question, can he be wrong on it being metaphorical? Is he infallible in his interpretation?
Or else he will just come up with another interpretation every time you prove him wrong and you will get no-where.
I would really suggest you spend 3 bucks and read this book. It is almost a necessary read if you are going to discuss the faith with non-catholics.
lulu.com/content/164117
Though some of his other material might not be very charitable, this book is a must for anyone who defends the faith or discusses it, along with Catholicism and Fundamentalism and The Catholic Controversy (St Francis).
God Bless
Scylla
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ALLFORHIM
Guest
Hi,
Yes thank you. I actually found the Scripture about Elijah taken up by the chariot of fir(or something like that)
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Daniel_Marsh
Guest
Did you mean
Rev 6
9And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
What is the metaphore? I don’t see it.
Rev 6
9And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
What is the metaphore? I don’t see it.
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kardon777
Guest
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kardon777
Guest
Thanks Daniel! Perfect!
Thanks all whoreplied too!
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Fidelis
Guest
Nor do I. To establish something in the Bible as a metaphor, you have to be able to show a couple of things: A) that the same statement was clearly used as a metaphor elsewhere in the Bible, or B) that the statement is impossible unless it is taken metaphorically.
Tell your friend just because he says something is metaphorical, doesn’t mean it is. Ask him for proof based on textual or logical evidence, not a preconceived theology that will allow him to just dismiss it out of hand.
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scylla
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BlestOne
Guest
Yes… and the cool thing is that John the Baptist started his ministry in the exact spot that Elijah disappeared from…Hi,
Yes thank you. I actually found the Scripture about Elijah taken up by the chariot of fir(or something like that)
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ALLFORHIM
Guest
Ive never heard that before cool:thumbsup:
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JoeyWarren
Guest
For those that need a definition of a Metaphor:
metaphor [Gr.,=transfer], in rhetoric, a figure of speech in which one class of things is referred to as if it belonged to another class. Whereas a simile states that A is like B, a metaphor states that A is B or substitutes B for A.
Some metaphors are explicit, like Shakespeare’s line from As You Like It:
metaphor [Gr.,=transfer], in rhetoric, a figure of speech in which one class of things is referred to as if it belonged to another class. Whereas a simile states that A is like B, a metaphor states that A is B or substitutes B for A.
Some metaphors are explicit, like Shakespeare’s line from As You Like It:
A metaphor can also be implicit, as in Shakespeare’s Sonnet LXXIII, where old age is indicated by a description of autumn:
A dead metaphor, such as “the arm” of a chair, is one that has become so common that it is no longer considered a metaphor.
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JoeyWarren
Guest
You are just going to ask him “So what is Souls under the Altar a Metaphor for?”
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