Need help with sola scriptura

  • Thread starter Thread starter tominbako
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
T

tominbako

Guest
I am a re-vert to the Catholic Church. Having spent many years wandering through protestant churches, I find that much of what I learned there I have to jettison. One thing I still struggle with is Sola Scriptura, especially when dialoguing with non-catholic friends. I need a resource that will expose all of the errors surrounding sola scriptura so I can settle that issue in my heart and help me explain it to others.
 
tominbako said:
I am a re-vert to the Catholic Church. Having spent many years wandering through protestant churches, I find that much of what I learned there I have to jettison. One thing I still struggle with is Sola Scriptura, especially when dialoguing with non-catholic friends. I need a resource that will expose all of the errors surrounding sola scriptura so I can settle that issue in my heart and help me explain it to others.
Click to expand...
You are at the best website for that information. Just go to the search bar and put in bible alone or Sola Scriptura. Ask you non-Catholic friends one simple question. Ask them for the chapter and verse that says “there shall be only 27 books in the New Testament”. If they can’t give it to you, the bible alone belief falls apart.
 
tominbako said:
I am a re-vert to the Catholic Church. Having spent many years wandering through protestant churches, I find that much of what I learned there I have to jettison. One thing I still struggle with is Sola Scriptura, especially when dialoguing with non-catholic friends. I need a resource that will expose all of the errors surrounding sola scriptura so I can settle that issue in my heart and help me explain it to others.
Click to expand...
Along with Catholic Answers, this site offers excellent material on this and other subjects:

bringyou.to/apologetics/apolog.htm#DOCTRINE
 
Scripture disproves “scripture alone.” 2 Thess. 2:15 demands that we follow apostolic tradition; 1 Timothy 3:15 says that the Church is the pillar of truth, not the “Bible alone”; 2 Peter 1:20 says that the truths of Christianity are not dependent upon a person’s individual beliefs; John 20:30 & 21:25 show that scripture alone is not sufficient; etc.
 
tominbako said:
I am a re-vert to the Catholic Church. Having spent many years wandering through protestant churches, I find that much of what I learned there I have to jettison. One thing I still struggle with is Sola Scriptura, especially when dialoguing with non-catholic friends. I need a resource that will expose all of the errors surrounding sola scriptura so I can settle that issue in my heart and help me explain it to others.
Click to expand...
The Catholic Church rejects Sola Scriptura because it rejects norming - and thus the norma normans in such. The Catholic Church alone claims that The Catholic Church alone is “infallible” and “incapable of error” in official matters of faith and morals, thus, obviously, it is exempt from norming (the process of discussing correctness, whether a view is correct/valid/ture). CC: “I’m right, so when I say I’m right, ergo I must be right - so just accept “with docility” that I’m right.” If that is accepted with docility, as The Catholic Church requires that it is, then ccountability, norming is moot in the case of exclusively one: itself.

Sola Scriptura is ONE aspect of norming: it addresses the issue of WHAT will serve as the rule (“straight edge”)/ canon (“measuring stick”)/ or as it is officially known in epistemology, the norma normans (“the norm that norms”). Let’s say that you hire Bob the Builder to construct a fense 6 feet tall. Bob is done and claims the fense is 6 feet tall. Now, YES, you could just accept “with docility” that Bob alone is infallible, incapable of error about such things, and thus exempt from accountability for Bob the Builder alone so claims for Bob the Builder alone. BUT, if that’s not the rubric, then the issue becomes: is it true? Is the claim, the position, the issue before us - is it correct? Is the fense 6 feet tall as Bob claims? You have just entered the real of norming. Norming is the process, the issue, of determining correctness. In theology, it is determining the correctness of doctrines: official teachings regarded as necessary to believe.

Now, perhaps you and Bob and the neighbors decide to use a Sears Measuring Tape. You all regard it as a realible canon (“measuring stick”), it is OUTSIDE and BEYOND and ABOVE all of you, knowable to all of you, alterable by none of you. You all regard it as reliable. IT, then, would be the rule/canon/norma normans for this determination (this norming of Bob’s claim). In theology, Sola Scriptura is the embrace of Scripture as the rule/canon/norma normans when evaluating doctrines (including those of The Catholic Church, and all others). It is OUTSIDE, ABOVE, BEYOND all parties; knowable by all and alterable by none, with a broad and historic and ecumenical embrace, regarded by all parties involved as reliable (perhaps even inerrent). Sola Scriptura embraces Scripture as the rule/canon/norma normans.

The Catholic Church opposes it NOT because it has a better alternative norna normans for the evaluation/norming of its doctrines, but because it rejects norming (and all aspects of it - including the embraced rule/canon in such) but exclusively for ONE - itself. All others ARE accountable just not itself alone. What it says (officially in matters of faith and morals, anyway) is simply to be accepted “with docility” (Catholic Catechism # 87, etc., etc.).

I hope that helps.

Pax
  • Josiah
.
 
.

The Official, Historic Definition of Sola Scriptura:

“The Scriptures are and should remain the sole rule and norm of all doctrine” (Lutheran Formula of Concord, Solid Declaration, 9). “We pledge ourselves to the prophetic and apostolic writings as the only norm according to which all teachers and teachings are to be judged” (Ditto, 3). “The Latin expression “sola scriptura” refers to the role of the Holy Scriptures to serve as the sole norm (norma normans) for all that is officially confessed in the church.” (Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod at official website)

Sola Scriptura IS…

An embrace of God’s inerrent, holy, written word as the final “Rule” (staight edge) or “Canon” (measuring stick) or “norma normans” to serve as the final Standard, Plumbline as Christians evaluate positions, especially doctrine.

**
Sola Scriptura is NOT…**
  1. Doctrine. It’s praxis, but yes it is an application of a doctrine - the doctrine of Scripture, which Catholics and Protestants share. Here is the Catholic position: “The Bible was inspired by God. Exactly what does that mean? It means that God is the author of the Bible. God inspired the penmen to write as God wished.” Sola Scriptura applies this doctrine, but it itself is not a doctrine - it’s praxis.
  2. Hermeneutics. It is not a praxis for the intepretation of Scriptures. It’s not hermeneutics, it’s norming. Bob says Jesus was 15 feet tall (a position he may or may not have come to by the interpretation of Scriptures). Sola Scriptura addresses the norming or evaluating of that position by establishing the Rule/Canon/Norma Normans.
  3. Sola Toma or Sola Biblica. WHATEVER the Scripture is at that point, it is the Rule. Sola Scriptura “existed” just as much at Mt. Sinai as it does today, only the “size” of the Scripture was smaller.
  4. Arbitration. Obviously some process is needed to determine if the position “measures up” (arbitration) to the “measuring stick” (the Canon). Sola Scriptura does not address this issue; it only addresses the rule/norma normans issue.
  5. Revelation. Sola Scriptura does not affirm that all divine revelation is confined to Scripture. Indeed, Scripture itself teaches that the heavens declare the glory of God. It’s just that the praxis of Sola Scriptura does not use star gazing as the Canon for the evaluation of doctrines.
“Let God-inspired Scripture decide between us; and on whichever side be found doctrines in harmony with the word of God, in favor of that side will be cast the vote of truth.” Basil of Caesarea (c. 330 - 379 A.D.)

“In order to leave room for such profitable discussions of difficult questions, there is a distinct boundary line separating all productions subsequent to apostolic times from the authoritative canonical books of the Old and New Testaments. The authority of these books has come down to us from the apostles through the successions of bishops and the extension of the Church, and, from a position of lofty supremacy, claims the submission of every faithful and pious mind…In the innumerable books that have been written latterly we may sometimes find the same truth as in Scripture, butthere is not the same authority. Scripture has a sacredness peculiar to itself.” - Augustine (Reply to Faustus the Manichaean, 11:5)

“Regarding the things I say, I should supply even the proofs, so I will not seem to rely on my own opinions, but rather, prove them with Scripture, so that the matter will remain certain and steadfast.” St. John Chrysostom (Homily 8 On Repentance and the Church, p. 118, vol. 96 TFOTC)

“Let the inspired Scriptures then be our umpire, and the vote of truth will be given to those whose dogmas are found to agree with the Divine words.” St. Gregory of Nyssa (On the Holy Trinity, NPNF, p. 327).

“We are not entitled to such license, I mean that of affirming what we please; we make the Holy Scriptures the rule and the measure of every tenet; we necessarily fix our eyes upon that, and approve that alone which may be made to harmonize with the intention of those writings.” St. Gregory of Nyssa (On the Soul and the Resurrection NPNF II, V:439)

“What is the mark of a faithful soul? To be in these dispositions of full acceptance on the authority of the words of Scripture, not venturing to reject anything nor making additions. For, if ‘all that is not of faith is sin’ as the Apostle says, and ‘faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God,’ everything outside Holy Scripture, not being of faith, is sin.” Basil the Great (The Morals, p. 204, vol 9 TFOTC).

“We are not content simply because this is the tradition of the Fathers. What is important is that the Fathers followed the meaning of the Scripture.” St. Basil the Great (On the Holy Spirit, Chapter 7, par. 16)

For concerning the divine and holy mysteries of the Faith, not even a casual statement must be delivered without the Holy Scriptures; nor must we be drawn aside by mere plausibility and artifices of speech. Even to me, who tell you these things, give not absolute credence, unless you receive the proof of the things which I announce from the Divine Scriptures. For this salvation which we believe depends not on ingenious reasoning, but on demonstration of the Holy Scriptures. St. Cyril of Jerusalem (Catechetical Lectures, IV:17, in NPNF, Volume VII, p. 23.)

Neither dare one agree with catholic bishops if by chance they err in anything, but the result that their opinion is against the canonical Scriptures of God. St. Augustine (De unitate ecclesiae, chp. 10)

.
 
By the book "“Not By Scripture Alone” from the auther Bob Sungenis at Catholic Apologetics International! It is 700 pages of Catholic Truth that no Protestant can stand up to or defend. You can even buy it as a PDF to save money.
 
I have to echo PUP. I’ve read many books dealing with Sola Scriptura but none is anywhere as good or as thorough as Not By Scripture Alone by Robert Sugenis. If you want to be able to defend against Sola Scriputa, this is a must have resource.

Oh and welcome back 🙂

God Bless!
 
tominbako said:
I am a re-vert to the Catholic Church. Having spent many years wandering through protestant churches, I find that much of what I learned there I have to jettison. One thing I still struggle with is Sola Scriptura, especially when dialoguing with non-catholic friends. I need a resource that will expose all of the errors surrounding sola scriptura so I can settle that issue in my heart and help me explain it to others.
Click to expand...
This shoots down SS pretty well:
catholicnick.blogspot.com/2009/10/2-timothy-314-17-and-sola-scriptura.html
 
One good argument against SS is that it doesn’t work. Those who preach SS can’t even all agree on the divinity of Christ, or the existence of the Trinity, much less on other core Christian beliefs.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top