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Finella
Guest
I don’t have the book in front of me right now, but I am pretty sure that sperm can’t live anywhere near 10 days. I think it may be closer to 3. I am sure someone here can provide the accurate info.
Finella
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Finella
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Marauder
Guest
Yes the viability of the sperm cells is taken into account. Using the sympto-thermal method there are three phases to a womans fertility cycle. Phase I is around the time of the woman’s period, Phase II is during her fertile cycle and Phase III is after the fertile period. Using this method you are taught to recognize how long all the Phases are and that you can have sex without worring about getting pregnant during Phase I and Phase III. Phase I is ususally the shortest time because you have to take into account the fact the sperm can still be viable a number of days after it is in the system.
There are signs based on your current cycle and past cycles that tell you when phase I ends. The end of Phase II is determined by things you measure in your current cycle. Both temperature and mucuos readings tell you when Phase II is over. Phase III is over when you have your period.
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SeekerJen
Guest
I think sperm can live for up to 5 days if the woman has fertile cervical mucus.
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TarAshly
Guest
i tried but the only NFP class around me is in spanish. i fluent but not that fluent! and this still sounds a little “iffy” to me we are just absolutely not financially or emotionally ready for a baby yet. my concern is its failure rate and fullproofness (word?).
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SeekerJen
Guest
The failure rate if used properly is about the same as the Pill (if the Pill is also used properly), less than 3%. Certainly lower than condoms, which have a failure rate of at least 10%.
It does sound iffy until you actually learn what it is and how it works. But this is based on decades of research on fertility, and it actually makes a lot of sense. If there aren’t easily available classes, you still have a couple of options. 1) I know the Couple to Couple league has a home-study course that you can purchase on their website if you are unable to attend classes. You might want to check that out. Or 2) take a look at the book I recommended above (Taking Charge of Your Fertility by Toni Weschler). I bought it for about $20 at Borders Books. It’s a best-seller so it shouldn’t be too hard to find. Honestly, this is a good read even just to learn about your body and your reproductive system- all the stuff that should be taught in “sex ed.” and isn’t. It actually made me angry when I realized exactly how much I and most other women had been kept in the dark with regards to our fertility.
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Marauder
Guest
Try the Couple to Couple League page, ccli.org
The Spanish course may be the only one that is advertised in documentation you get but there may be others close to you. We live right on the border between the Washington and Baltimore archdioceses. After looking at that page we were able to find a course in the other archdiocese that was more accessable then the one offered locally.
The failure rate of NFP if done properly is less then that off all the other methods. You should be just as concerned about the failure rate of the pill. Once you learn NFP, it is very simple. The only “complicated” time may be figuring out your charts right after coming off the pill since your cycles have been influenced by the pill. But there are people and sections in the book that specifically address coming off the pill.
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TarAshly
Guest
thanks i’ll look for the book this weekend. are there any women here who have come off of the pill with having PCOS? how did it effect you and your ability to have children?
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EricCKS
Guest
TarAshly,
Cannot help you on the plumbing issue but I can help you on the NFP. My wife and I started using the Creighton Model about 8 months ago and are enjoying well. Everything posters on other threads have mentioned is very true. My wife and I have never been closer and we are following church teaching which is icing on a very tasty cake. I have been following your other threads and appreciate your skepticism and questions. My wife has felt much the same way you do about NFP. I think it is passing however slowly. Email if you wish. I included the link to the websight. I think you will like it.
creightonmodel.com/
Thanks
Eric
Cannot help you on the plumbing issue but I can help you on the NFP. My wife and I started using the Creighton Model about 8 months ago and are enjoying well. Everything posters on other threads have mentioned is very true. My wife and I have never been closer and we are following church teaching which is icing on a very tasty cake. I have been following your other threads and appreciate your skepticism and questions. My wife has felt much the same way you do about NFP. I think it is passing however slowly. Email if you wish. I included the link to the websight. I think you will like it.
creightonmodel.com/
Thanks
Eric
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johnnyjoe
Guest
I had to call Mrs. H on her cell phone as soon as I read this! She tells me to tell you she is grinning from ear to ear and Praising God as she drives the kids to a play-date!Hey, JJ!
Remember the good ol’ days when I was staunchly against NFP?
Heh- how things change. I’m actually printing sympto-thermal charts off the web as I’m typing this.
Things are nice and crazy on my end. Hope you and Mrs. H (and the kids) are doing well. God bless.
I’m glad the NFP decision has been fruitful and helpful…it has been our consistant experience as NFP instructors that many blessings come from adopting this simple lifestyle change. Regardless of the “religious” reasons, the health of the marriage is always improved, and the attitude of the cooperating couples is always brighter.
I am so glad to hear of your crazy niceness…May God continue to Bless you Richly!
J
johnnyjoe
Guest
TarAshley,
There is no direct linkage known, at this time, between pill usage and the incidence of PCOS. If you are on the pill now, there is a Sympto-Thermal rule you can use coming directly off the pill that will allow a 99% effectiveness with proper use.
There are a wide range of experiences women have coming off the pill. Some experience temporary infertility for as long as a year, some have fertility return within a couple of months. We had one young lady who was getting a mucus patch and temperture shift while she was on the pill!
If you have not been on the pill for long, say less than two years, your temporary infertility will likely be short. Women who are on the pill for longer periods of time tend to report longer periods of infertility.
Depo-Provera is the most severe type of chemical contraceptive, and as has been noted above, seems to have a significantly longer impact on fertility after is use. We had a student who came off Depo in the year 2000, and at last contact had only cycled a few times in 4 years.
If you have difficulty finding a class nearby, email me off site and I will contact a CCL teacher nearby to have them contact you. We are certifying more and more teachers, and perhaps it is just a matter of finding someone closer to you to get you the information you need.
May God Bless you in you efforts.
John
There is no direct linkage known, at this time, between pill usage and the incidence of PCOS. If you are on the pill now, there is a Sympto-Thermal rule you can use coming directly off the pill that will allow a 99% effectiveness with proper use.
There are a wide range of experiences women have coming off the pill. Some experience temporary infertility for as long as a year, some have fertility return within a couple of months. We had one young lady who was getting a mucus patch and temperture shift while she was on the pill!
If you have not been on the pill for long, say less than two years, your temporary infertility will likely be short. Women who are on the pill for longer periods of time tend to report longer periods of infertility.
Depo-Provera is the most severe type of chemical contraceptive, and as has been noted above, seems to have a significantly longer impact on fertility after is use. We had a student who came off Depo in the year 2000, and at last contact had only cycled a few times in 4 years.
If you have difficulty finding a class nearby, email me off site and I will contact a CCL teacher nearby to have them contact you. We are certifying more and more teachers, and perhaps it is just a matter of finding someone closer to you to get you the information you need.
May God Bless you in you efforts.
John
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Finella
Guest
Hi TarAshley.
I don’t know for sure if I have PCOS or not… but I am trying to learn NFP after coming off the Pill. I was on it for 14 years!!!
I have not taken a class yet and am having a rough time. So for now my husband and I are abstaining. It is not easy for me. But it is something that both hubby and I consider important so we will keep working at it. Just the knowledge that we are no longer going against God’s will feels great!
I don’t know yet how my fertility is affected, other than the fact that I haven’t ovulated yet since I’ve come off the Pill. And be careful if you seek infertility treatment…so many are NOT approved by the Church.
Definitely get the “taking charge of your fertility book”… I borrowed mine from the library but hope to own a copy someday so I can have the info when I need it, lol.
How long have you been on the Pill? If it is keeping your PCOS symptoms under control, I would find an NFP friendly doc before you go off of it…I wish I did.
If you’d like to know more, you can always PM me
Finella
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Marauder
Guest
I highly encourage finding a class if one is available. We tried to learn it via book and gave up and took the course. NFP is extrememly simple when you take a class. Just looking through the book it can seem real complicated. The reason the book is so big is because occasionally people have unusual cycles. I’m not talking about varying cycles, I’m talking about unusual ones.
The book has to address all the unusual cycles, but usually they rarely occur. Examples of reasons for unusal cycles include:
- coming off the pill
- after pregnancy
- menopause
- missed ovulation
- break-through bleeding
- a few other reasons
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Finella
Guest
thanks Marauder.
We looked into taking a course, but there are a couple of reasons we can’t right now. First off, we just don’t have the extra money right now. I don’t know why I assumed it wouldn’t cost anything, lol…
The other reason is my health. It is very unpredictable so we cannot commit to regular classes.
I am one of those people with "unusual cycles…
erratic temps that don’t make any sense. cervical fluid that doesn’t seem to make sense. Since we can’t define if I am ovulating, we have to abstain. I hope we can take a claas sometime in the near future. I am getting really frustrated. It almost makes me wish for the days that I saw nothing wrong with taking the pill…it was so easy, lol.
Finella
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LittleDeb
Guest
I just registered so I could post on this topic so close to my heart. NFP has been the answer to so many of my health problems.
Yes I spent all my reproductive years with endometriosis and I am now sure undiagnosed PCOS. I was told everyone had cysts on their ovaries. Due to 2 surgeries I have seen a color photo of one of them. The cyst was as large as the ovary. If I hadn’t been so stubborn I might have been terrified! Pain was my constant companion. I was told at 22 the only answer was a hysterectomy. In answer to the questions about fertility and coming off the pill and (evil) Depo-Provera and having children. My answer is to get all that garbage out of your system ASAP!
As a Catholic all my life I should have known about NFP and did not. I thought it was old “calendar rythmn.” What a wonderful surprise to find I was so wrong! I am a poster child for the tremendous gift of NFP. My cycles range from 28-40 days, I had low thyroid, severe pain and extended infertility. I have been to 7, count 'em, 7, different OB/GYNs. I wandered into NFP partly because I could sense I wasn’t being told the whole truth. It was not until after I started charting that my low thyroid was discovered. I was put on the pill to “regulate” my cycles. (I now call that “averaging” my cycles) I was on it non-stop with no placebo to allow for the artificial bleeding. On Depo I had no cycles for 4 years. Though unmarried at the time I was living what I call my “checkered” past and very well should have gotten pregnant. I did once and miscarried. I know now how much God was right there with me when I was trying so hard to escape Him. Little did I know He was just waiting for the right time for me. He presented me with my husband and NFP at nearly the same time. We took the class together before we were even engaged. My (then non-Catholic) husband thought it was pretty amazing that the Catholic Church had the answer to making marriages more unified.
We mostly took the class to help my health and found so much more. True NFP talks about honoring each other in all times in all ways. My unpredictable health started to improve and my “brokenness” was more predictable. I still have the unusual cycles Finella spoke of. Anovulatory (temperatures all over the board) with constant mucus. Charting with NFP has made these cycles make more sense. They are normal for me. The nutrition information by Marilyn Shannon has done a lot for helping my mucus even out. We thought we didn’t have the money to take the class, but with prayer the money just appeared.
Through NFP we learned that all those years of artificial birth control had masked the fertility signs that would help treat the symptoms and the diseases! How ironic that I was on medication to help my health and all the while it was slowly making me worse. I had to trust in God that it was truly His will that I not lose my ovaries or uterus. It was a real leap of faith. I cannot say for someone else that if you go off those medications that your story will match mine. For me, God’s delay was not God’s denial. I am now 33 and back home, fully in union with The Church’s teachings. My 3 year Sacrament of marriage made stronger by NFP. Before I wrote this I just finished nursing my 2-month-old son. We named him Nathaniel which means, “A gift from God.”
Yes I spent all my reproductive years with endometriosis and I am now sure undiagnosed PCOS. I was told everyone had cysts on their ovaries. Due to 2 surgeries I have seen a color photo of one of them. The cyst was as large as the ovary. If I hadn’t been so stubborn I might have been terrified! Pain was my constant companion. I was told at 22 the only answer was a hysterectomy. In answer to the questions about fertility and coming off the pill and (evil) Depo-Provera and having children. My answer is to get all that garbage out of your system ASAP!
As a Catholic all my life I should have known about NFP and did not. I thought it was old “calendar rythmn.” What a wonderful surprise to find I was so wrong! I am a poster child for the tremendous gift of NFP. My cycles range from 28-40 days, I had low thyroid, severe pain and extended infertility. I have been to 7, count 'em, 7, different OB/GYNs. I wandered into NFP partly because I could sense I wasn’t being told the whole truth. It was not until after I started charting that my low thyroid was discovered. I was put on the pill to “regulate” my cycles. (I now call that “averaging” my cycles) I was on it non-stop with no placebo to allow for the artificial bleeding. On Depo I had no cycles for 4 years. Though unmarried at the time I was living what I call my “checkered” past and very well should have gotten pregnant. I did once and miscarried. I know now how much God was right there with me when I was trying so hard to escape Him. Little did I know He was just waiting for the right time for me. He presented me with my husband and NFP at nearly the same time. We took the class together before we were even engaged. My (then non-Catholic) husband thought it was pretty amazing that the Catholic Church had the answer to making marriages more unified.
We mostly took the class to help my health and found so much more. True NFP talks about honoring each other in all times in all ways. My unpredictable health started to improve and my “brokenness” was more predictable. I still have the unusual cycles Finella spoke of. Anovulatory (temperatures all over the board) with constant mucus. Charting with NFP has made these cycles make more sense. They are normal for me. The nutrition information by Marilyn Shannon has done a lot for helping my mucus even out. We thought we didn’t have the money to take the class, but with prayer the money just appeared.
Through NFP we learned that all those years of artificial birth control had masked the fertility signs that would help treat the symptoms and the diseases! How ironic that I was on medication to help my health and all the while it was slowly making me worse. I had to trust in God that it was truly His will that I not lose my ovaries or uterus. It was a real leap of faith. I cannot say for someone else that if you go off those medications that your story will match mine. For me, God’s delay was not God’s denial. I am now 33 and back home, fully in union with The Church’s teachings. My 3 year Sacrament of marriage made stronger by NFP. Before I wrote this I just finished nursing my 2-month-old son. We named him Nathaniel which means, “A gift from God.”
M
Marauder
Guest
Depending on who you take the course from the costs can vary. I know the teachers for Couple to Couple Leagure are all volunteers so you only pay for the course supplies. The $75 that they charge pays for:
a) the book
b) the basil thermometer
c) the charts
d) membership in the Couple to Couple League
If you already have any of those things they deduct that from the cost. They also have ways of cutting the cost, ie borrowing the book, scholarships, sometimes churchs will cover the cost, etc.
As for time, usually if you contact a teacher they can help you out. Our teachers actually took an extra Saturday out to help us because we couldn’t make a class.
I highly encourage contacting the teachers. What you think of erractic temps may not really be that. First off, are you taking you temperatures at the same exact time every day? Did you pick a good time that you are always well rested before you take the temperatures? Are you taking the mucus readings at the right time?
Also what looks like erratic temperatures usually has a pattern that you may not see. Belive me when I tell you this, my wife is having extrememly erratic temperatures because she recently had a baby (for those that doubt NFP we started NFP after the baby, not before) and it is normal for odd temperature shifts after a baby but there is still a pattern to it if you know what you are looking for.
I highly encourage contacting a local teacher and asking questions, even if you aren’t taking the course, they usually will help out.
P
puzzleannie
Guest
glad we are back on topic. this is from your mom or grandma, we of the first generation that bought into the lie that the pill was our liberation, so learn from our experience. The pill kills. It kills un-implanted embryos. It kills women through strokes, almost unheard of among women of child-bearing age before the pill, now a leading cause of death. It kills slowly through promoting an unnatural hormonal cycle for many years, which in turn affects every body system for the worse, so not only are cancers of the breast and reproductive system increasing in younger women but also diseases of other hormonal-related systems i.e. thyroid, pancreas, Crohn’s, Cushing (both affected by adrenal gland) on and on.
Because of the culture of sexual promiscuity among teens and young adults that is fostered by the Planned Parenthood pill mentality, STDs including cervical and ovarian cancer and PCOS are on the rise. NO let me say again PCOS or cervical and ovarian cancer ARE NOT always sexually transmitted, or evidence of promiscuity on the part of the woman or her partner, there are many causes. One of which may be use of the pill, or depo-provera, or my mind went bland (senior moment) the hormone women were given in the 60s to prevent miscarriage which has been proven to cause anomalies in the reproductive tracts of their children.
The pill kills intimacy in marriage because of pre-marital sex which closes off the normal growth in love and communication between man and woman and reduces both to being sex machines for each other (along with the SEX IS GOD mentality of the media an popular culture)
The pill kills because it has affected the entire medical community as part of the larger trend in western medicine to prescribe drugs to mask symptoms instead of diagnosing and treating root causes. It has fostered the climate of intense pressure on women (and therefore on men) to contracept, sterilize and abort.
The evil harmful consequences of surgical sterilization for men and women is another entire thread.
PCOS is a complicated disorder, never heard of in my day but undeniably the reason for the high right of hysterectomies in my age group (early boomer) even now it may take forever to get a correct diagnosis but keep trying. If you have or suspect PCOS do not use the pill (also be very knowledgeable about any other prescription meds) keep pushing till you get real treatment.
Your body and your husband’s body are one, that is what marriage is according to the bible, what hurts you hurts him. That is why NFP - its practice leads husband and wife to act as one.
Because of the culture of sexual promiscuity among teens and young adults that is fostered by the Planned Parenthood pill mentality, STDs including cervical and ovarian cancer and PCOS are on the rise. NO let me say again PCOS or cervical and ovarian cancer ARE NOT always sexually transmitted, or evidence of promiscuity on the part of the woman or her partner, there are many causes. One of which may be use of the pill, or depo-provera, or my mind went bland (senior moment) the hormone women were given in the 60s to prevent miscarriage which has been proven to cause anomalies in the reproductive tracts of their children.
The pill kills intimacy in marriage because of pre-marital sex which closes off the normal growth in love and communication between man and woman and reduces both to being sex machines for each other (along with the SEX IS GOD mentality of the media an popular culture)
The pill kills because it has affected the entire medical community as part of the larger trend in western medicine to prescribe drugs to mask symptoms instead of diagnosing and treating root causes. It has fostered the climate of intense pressure on women (and therefore on men) to contracept, sterilize and abort.
The evil harmful consequences of surgical sterilization for men and women is another entire thread.
PCOS is a complicated disorder, never heard of in my day but undeniably the reason for the high right of hysterectomies in my age group (early boomer) even now it may take forever to get a correct diagnosis but keep trying. If you have or suspect PCOS do not use the pill (also be very knowledgeable about any other prescription meds) keep pushing till you get real treatment.
Your body and your husband’s body are one, that is what marriage is according to the bible, what hurts you hurts him. That is why NFP - its practice leads husband and wife to act as one.
T
TarAshly
Guest
first off i thank you for the info, however your highly misinformed about PCOS, its not an STD its a reproductive disorder, i to was told at 21 to have a histerectomy, i refused, and am dealing with the symptoms and praying that it doesnt effect my fertility for when me and my husband to be want to start a family. i had PCOS long before i ever lost my virginity, and have never ever been with anyone other than the man i am about to marry in now six weeks. PCOS has different extremeties for me it got to the point of dibilitating blinding pain, the last cyst i had removed was the size of a softball and was pressing against my uterus and had actually began to crush my ovary, the pill has been the only thing to prevent the cysts from returning and destroying my reproductive organs, i at a total loss here, my fiance and i want to do whats right and do what God would want us to do, but i dont know that i could go through that again, or risk losing my child bearing abilities at 21. anyone know how to find an NFP friendly OBGYN?
M
Marauder
Guest
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puzzleannie
Guest
I am intimately acquainted with PCOS and know more about it than any woman would wish to. I definitely stated that it is NOT an STD but that its incidence has increased since the pill was introduced, and that it has multiple causes which are poorly understood. Because it is poorly understood it is under-diagnosed, hence the rise in hysterectomies. It is true that the pill suppresses symptoms for many women, put the price of using the pill is very high, not only spiritually but for damage to other body systems.
The original poster asked for info on alternatives and I was encouraging her to pursue NFP as an alternative, and to become fully educated about all the ramifications of following the line of therapy that suppresses symptoms instead of diagnosing and treating the underlying cause.
The original poster asked for info on alternatives and I was encouraging her to pursue NFP as an alternative, and to become fully educated about all the ramifications of following the line of therapy that suppresses symptoms instead of diagnosing and treating the underlying cause.
C
Cradle
Guest
I don’t know much about NFP (not single but not quite engaged yet, so I’m in no rush to learn it as it seems pretty daunting!! I need to steel myself for it lol), though I did recently go to a Creighton presentation where we were told it and NaProTechnology (the medical treatment side of Creighton) deal with PCOS pretty well - as someone said, Dr Hilgers is an expert in PCOS. I’m waiting on more information on this from the presenter, should be getting an email within the next few weeks.
But anyway, I do have PCOS (tbh puzzleannie, I don’t think PCOS has anything to do with the pill… I myself am a virgin and have never so much as even touched the pill container thingy, and I know my mother and most certainly my grandmother have never used the pill. The OB/GYN I currently use is constantly pushing the BCP but I’ve refused, taking metformin (trial, a drug usually used for diabetes) for my initial treatment and currently using a 10-day progesterone system. Anyway, the reason I posted is that I’m starting to freak out a little - has anyone heard of any negative effects from taking progesterone??
I’m looking forward to when I do start charting, probably with Creighton because of the direct link with doctors, as then I’ll be able to get most likely Dr Hilgers’ opinion on the best treatment for my PCOS (according to the Creighton presenter it costs $25 to send your chart and stuff to him for analysis and back and forth!!! dirt cheap, I think! …especially considering there is no Creighton-affiliated doctor in Vancouver… probably NFP-friendly doctors are hard to find, but there must be some, so they would be willing to work with Dr Hilgers’ recommendations, I hope!). NFP just seems so scary to me, for now! Actually, exciting and scary at the same time, haha.
But anyway, I do have PCOS (tbh puzzleannie, I don’t think PCOS has anything to do with the pill… I myself am a virgin and have never so much as even touched the pill container thingy, and I know my mother and most certainly my grandmother have never used the pill. The OB/GYN I currently use is constantly pushing the BCP but I’ve refused, taking metformin (trial, a drug usually used for diabetes) for my initial treatment and currently using a 10-day progesterone system. Anyway, the reason I posted is that I’m starting to freak out a little - has anyone heard of any negative effects from taking progesterone??
I’m looking forward to when I do start charting, probably with Creighton because of the direct link with doctors, as then I’ll be able to get most likely Dr Hilgers’ opinion on the best treatment for my PCOS (according to the Creighton presenter it costs $25 to send your chart and stuff to him for analysis and back and forth!!! dirt cheap, I think! …especially considering there is no Creighton-affiliated doctor in Vancouver… probably NFP-friendly doctors are hard to find, but there must be some, so they would be willing to work with Dr Hilgers’ recommendations, I hope!). NFP just seems so scary to me, for now! Actually, exciting and scary at the same time, haha.
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