Need NFP help -- or else the pill continues!

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I think this “contraceptive mentality while using NFP” is a bunch of balogna.

Each and every act must be open to life. If the Church accepts NFP under any circumstances, then that means each act done during an infertile phase is still open to life.

So, even if you are avoiding pregnancy for what some may consider frivolous reasons, and you are using NFP to do this, you can’t be sinning.

If you think that NFP can be used sinfully, please point out when exactly the couple is sinning. Are they sinning when they have relations during the infertile phase? Or are they sinning when they do NOT have relations during a fertile phase?
 
Black Jaque:
I think this “contraceptive mentality while using NFP” is a bunch of balogna.

Each and every act must be open to life. If the Church accepts NFP under any circumstances, then that means each act done during an infertile phase is still open to life.

So, even if you are avoiding pregnancy for what some may consider frivolous reasons, and you are using NFP to do this, you can’t be sinning.

If you think that NFP can be used sinfully, please point out when exactly the couple is sinning. Are they sinning when they have relations during the infertile phase? Or are they sinning when they do NOT have relations during a fertile phase?
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People argue that using NFP with the intent to avoid pregnancy for frivilous reasons is a sin. I put all I know on the subject in post #33, and it sums up pretty well how I feel about the subject.
 
Black Jaque:
I think this “contraceptive mentality while using NFP” is a bunch of balogna.

Each and every act must be open to life. If the Church accepts NFP under any circumstances, then that means each act done during an infertile phase is still open to life.

So, even if you are avoiding pregnancy for what some may consider frivolous reasons, and you are using NFP to do this, you can’t be sinning.

If you think that NFP can be used sinfully, please point out when exactly the couple is sinning. Are they sinning when they have relations during the infertile phase? Or are they sinning when they do NOT have relations during a fertile phase?
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Since children are the ultimate good of marriage, it is selfish, prideful, and displays a lack of trust in God’s providence if a couple deliberately avoids having children when there is no good reason. Basically, although their physical acts may be open to life, their intention and mentality is not. So the sinning is not really related to their intimacy at all, but rather to their intentional spurning of the life that God blesses marriages with through intimacy.

As has been said, though, the Church deliberately leaves the responsibility for the decision of when to be parents up to the prayerful discernment of the couple, so there is no “list” of good or bad reasons to delay bearing children.

Peace,
javelin
 
Any other suggestions for study resources, especially concerning the historical changes in the protestant churches?

javelin
 
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Princess_Abby:
I remember Javelin from almost a year ago, in another thread, where he posted much of his wife’s personal health information and it became extremely clear that they have just reasons to abstain/avoid during ovulation. (I only say this for all of you who are openly speculating whether or not it is morally permissible for he and his wife to use NFP to avoid.)

Javelin: PLEASE tell your wife to get in touch with a Creighton Model practioner. I know exactly what your wife is talking about in terms of sympto-thermal. Doing internal checks on one’s cervix and to check for early mucus was not something I enjoyed either. Creighton is a method that ONLY measures what a woman externally produces. She is NEVER asked to do any internal checks whatsoever. It is a very, very simple sticker recording system that is done once a day, at night before bed. The fertility practioner can explain the rest, but the only other involvement is basically checking indications that are easily observed on toilet paper. It’s SO simple and 99 percent accurate. They call it “Napro Technology” and the introductory sessions are free. Materials are $25.

Do a google search for “the creighton model” or “napro technology.” It should lead you to a website that will let you select a fertility practioner of the Creighton Model in your area who will guide you both very carefully in learning and using it.

Abby
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Bless you, Abby, and thank you for the (name removed by moderator)ut and support.
Unfortunately, there are no Creighton instructors within a three hour drive of where I live, so it will not be easy to set something up. I’m going to look into it, though.

Peace,
javelin
 
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alessandro:
I remember an article from The Latin Mass journal that stated if NFP was practiced with the intention of not conceiving, and without “legitimate” circumstances that necessitate that practice, then the couple was in a state of mortal sin, just as if they had used other methods of contraception. I will have to try to find the source and I will post it.
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That’s fine, but if it’s the author’s take on the whole thing, it’s not a reliable source. Just because a magazine published someone’s opinion, it’s not automatically Church teaching.

Abstaining from sex during fertile times is not mortal sin. Being selfish and not wanting kids might be a sin, but the act of abstaining is not. —KCT
 
Javelin, my wife and I also had trouble with NFP (Sympto-thermal). First, I would recommend taking a new class, a refersher might help. After our second child, my wife started using a fertility monitor as a backup to NFP (we use one like this: clearplan.com). It seems to be very accurate, and coincided well with the NFP signs. Basically, she pees on a stick then puts the stick in the machine, and it tells you where you are. It does take a month or two to get it on track. If your wife does stop using the pill, it could take a while before her cycle is normal again, so the monitor can be a big help during that period. The funny thing is, the website assumes you want to the monitor to GET pregnant, and never seems to consider its use as an aid to NFP. We also buffered the “abstinence period” by a few extra days.
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 The problem with the monitor is that the sticks can be expensive, and we find that the drug store doesn’t always have them. You can usually do better by ordering the sticks off EBay though. It’s also not fail proof. We ran out of sticks, and couldn’t find any for a while. We didn’t mind too much because my wife’s cycle was so predictable, she didn’t feel we needed the monitor much anymore. Then she started taking medication for a kidney ailment. Apparently, the only side effect she got was an irregular cycle. We are expecting our third around Christmas. 

 As a side note, I think on threads like this, we should assume that the OP is correctly using his God-given judgment to use NFP properly. I’m not saying the moral issues shouldn’t be brought up, but some of the posts here have sounded rather accusative to me, and since there is not nearly enough info given to know either way, that’s pretty rude.
 
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javelin:
She doesn’t really buy the reasons why ABC is sinful and NFP is not…
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I don’t know exactly what your wife disagrees with, but here is an analogy that helped me understand the difference.
Wanting to providing money for your family is a good desire. To provide money you can either work and earn money, or steal it from others. Both methods achieve a good end (money for your family). One is a moral way to go about, the other is not. Same thing with abstinence VS contraception.
 
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