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steph410
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This is not very logical. You think it’s not a sin because people who don’t “follow the Pope” think it’s ok? So, lots of people think abortion is ok, does that mean it’s not a sin because they think it’s not?
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shelby_sun
Guest
Well if you are not an Orthodox Jew than you do not believe it is wrong to eat pork, but what in fact if they are right in the end and you have been eating pork all this time. Will God punish you because you simply did not believe what you were doing was wrong?
This gets into the rigid ideology Pope Francis was speaking of which is being discussed on another thread and his thoughts on using our conscience. Should this woman break up her family, especially if he is a good father to the children he already has, because to her her husband is committing a sin? IMO, she needs to pray for him and then turned it over to God, go on a make then best life she can possible have with her family, and thank God for the blessing she has in stead of dwelling on the children she might have had in the future.
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pensmama87
Guest
You need to do some work on learning why the Church teaches what it does, and where that authority comes from. Church teaching on morality applies to everyone. Some people are ignorant of it and thus less culpable, but that doesn’t mean the behavior isn’t objectively sinful. Purposefully mutilating your own body is not good, even though our society says so and it sounds reasonable to many people.
You’re right about what she needs to do - most notably, pray for her husband - she can’t force him to do or not do anything, but he will still be doing something wrong, and NOT JUST in her eyes. If you’re Catholic, you can’t be a relativist. You can work to understand why a person has the perspective they do when it is contrary to the Church, but that doesn’t mean you’re both right.
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Emese
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Miriam1947
Guest
The husband of the OP is not Catholic. We may believe and teach that vasectomy is wrong but for him it isn’t.
Period.
Period.
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Emese
Guest
I think My3Starts gave an excellent idea of getting your husband to read up about the procedure and its possible side effects from a medical perspective. It is important to be aware what happens to one’s body as a result of this surgery.
However, you can discuss and reason and pray, but after all it is his body, and if he decides against your wishes, than it will be his decision only and not yours. If he does not want any more children, and you are against taking precautions ( apart from NFP) and you are both adamant, than the only “in between” option is abstinence.
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pensmama87
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If you are saying that he does not believe it is wrong, yes. No one on this thread would dispute that - obviously he doesn’t think it’s wrong.
But is sterilization wrong? Yes.
I’m surprised by the number of regular posters here, who declare themselves Catholic, who apparently think that Church teaching is only true if you’re Catholic.
Diminished culpability for sin is nowhere near the same thing as no sin at all.
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Emese
Guest
The Church teaches that unintentional ( not knowing that you are) sinning is not sinning. You can tell somebody that he is sinning, but if he doesn’t believe that he is than he doesn’t “know” either.If you are saying that he does not believe it is wrong, yes. No one on this thread would dispute that - obviously he doesn’t think it’s wrong.
But is sterilization wrong? Yes.
I’m surprised by the number of regular posters here, who declare themselves Catholic, who apparently think that Church teaching is only true if you’re Catholic.
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Mount_Carmel
Guest
Yup, even Jesus from the Cross said, “Father forgive them for they know not what they do.”
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Joseph73
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Sinning is intentionally doing something against God, as per my understanding.
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PumpkinPies37
Guest
I’m surprised as well. As it does nothing to actually help the OP, who is HURTING and asking for prayers and support. Not a bunch of relativist speak. It seems that many people here want to justify their own actions and are using this thread to bleed their logic all over the OP.If you are saying that he does not believe it is wrong, yes. No one on this thread would dispute that - obviously he doesn’t think it’s wrong.
But is sterilization wrong? Yes.
I’m surprised by the number of regular posters here, who declare themselves Catholic, who apparently think that Church teaching is only true if you’re Catholic.
Like I said, none of this actually helps her. It’s called compassion. She’s not going to suddenly change her view because a bunch of perfect strangers have basically told her to lighten up.
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Joseph73
Guest
I wouldn’t say “lighten up”. The OP has every right to feel upset and hurt. However, the wife is not morally culpable for sleeping with her husband after he has this done; it wasn’t her will. Also, if the husband is not aware he is hurting God by doing this, and is only trying to get closer to God through all his actions every day of his life, then he is on the right path.
He must, however, know that this would upset his wife, and seems to be belligerently doing it anyway.
This seems like a relationship issue.
He must, however, know that this would upset his wife, and seems to be belligerently doing it anyway.
This seems like a relationship issue.
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shelby_sun
Guest
Well excuse us if we didn’t exactly what YOU wanted. Maybe if she understand what the church really teaches it will ease her stress. I also mentioned praying and turning it over to God.
What do you mean by support? Repeating over and over that her husband is a sinner and that she should leave him because he won’t repent. She is not sinning, she doesn’t support the sin, and she must realize that it is not a sin to her husband.
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PumpkinPies37
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Shelby sun, since you have addressed me personally, I will address you personally (albeit more respectfully).
You really seem personally invested in this topic. All the OP asked for was prayer. Not clarification on any of the Church’s teachings - just prayer. OP seems to be quite aware of the teachings of The Church. If you really feel the need to talk about your views and your life, perhaps you should start your own thread.
In future, please kindly refrain from addressing me personally.
Thank you,
Pumpk(name removed by moderator)ies37
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ChibiViolet
Guest
Praying…
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Emese
Guest
I think if the OP wanted prayers only than she would have posted in “prayer intentions” and not in the “family life” section. This section is about discussing family issues such as this.
I do think posters here are genuinely trying to help. So if you think they are promoting personal agenda or trying to justify themselves than you might have misred or misunderstood something.
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rayne89
Guest
I think there is some confusion on sterilization. Sterilization is intrinsically evil which makes it grave matter. We all know (or I hope we do) that its grave whether one believes it to be or not. OP’s husband in not Catholic, he has not yet received the gift of the fullness of the faith -it is up to God to judge what his culpability is.
Every one to whom much is given, of him will much be required. We as Catholics have been given much - we can not judge the soul of another.
The OP is very upset. Telling her the end of her marriage will be her fault is not helpful either. She is not required to abstain if her husband sadly goes through with it in fact most priests would recommend she work toward finding a way to forgive her husband and continue to be open to intimacy.
Do not let the Father of Lies win. He may convince your husband to end his fertility but pray very hard for the Grace to stop evil one from invading your home, your heart and stealing your peace. God knows where you are. He knows your grief, your pain. Trust in Him whatever happens, your marriage is sacred. He knows all that has happened and all that will happen -trust in Him.
Every one to whom much is given, of him will much be required. We as Catholics have been given much - we can not judge the soul of another.
The OP is very upset. Telling her the end of her marriage will be her fault is not helpful either. She is not required to abstain if her husband sadly goes through with it in fact most priests would recommend she work toward finding a way to forgive her husband and continue to be open to intimacy.
Do not let the Father of Lies win. He may convince your husband to end his fertility but pray very hard for the Grace to stop evil one from invading your home, your heart and stealing your peace. God knows where you are. He knows your grief, your pain. Trust in Him whatever happens, your marriage is sacred. He knows all that has happened and all that will happen -trust in Him.
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PumpkinPies37
Guest
Yes, I may have ‘missed something’. Or then again, maybe you are missing something. It’s really a matter of perspective, isn’t it?
No one can know the motive of the OP or why she posted here and not in “prayer intentions”.
I digress, I will refrain from defending the OP in the future. She probably gave up arguing with people on page one and has now moved on to a more productive way to spend her time. As will I.
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PumpkinPies37
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Beautifully said.
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OurLadyPray4US
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quote from lifesitenews.com/mobile/news/texan-surgeon-gives-hope-to-sterilized-men-seeking-wholeness
NEW BRAUNFELS, Texas, November 19, 2012 (LifeSiteNews.com) – Dr. Mark Hickman would try to talk any man out of having a vasectomy any day.
He would begin by telling them all the horror stories that he has heard from the many men who have undergone the invasive procedure that unnaturally blocks tubes that are designed to carry sperm out of a man’s body.
Dr. Hickman would mention that many men become distraught after finding their sexual drive dwindle as a result of the procedure. He would highlight the men who say that their sense of wholeness and sense of well-being diminished soon after the procedure. And he would warn that many men relate symptoms of increased sensitivity and even chronic pain in their testicles after the procedure.
He would also speak about the married men who told him that eliminating the “risk” of impregnating their spouse through what they thought was consequence-free sex led them down the “slippery slope” to sexual relationships with other women.
If Dr. Hickman were speaking to a vasectomy seeker with a religious bent, he would state that “vasectomy circumvents God’s design for human sexuality and fertility”. He would mention the numerous men who related to him that immediately after their vasectomies, they left the doctor’s office and cried as they “knew in their hearts they had sinned.”
It is to be expected that men find themselves opening their hearts to Dr. Hickman with their stories of sorrow and woe. These men confide in him because of their hope that the good doctor will be the one to free them from anguish.
Dr. Hickman is a vasectomy reversal surgeon who has made it his life’s mission to restore infertile broken men to fertility and wholeness.
NEW BRAUNFELS, Texas, November 19, 2012 (LifeSiteNews.com) – Dr. Mark Hickman would try to talk any man out of having a vasectomy any day.
He would begin by telling them all the horror stories that he has heard from the many men who have undergone the invasive procedure that unnaturally blocks tubes that are designed to carry sperm out of a man’s body.
Dr. Hickman would mention that many men become distraught after finding their sexual drive dwindle as a result of the procedure. He would highlight the men who say that their sense of wholeness and sense of well-being diminished soon after the procedure. And he would warn that many men relate symptoms of increased sensitivity and even chronic pain in their testicles after the procedure.
He would also speak about the married men who told him that eliminating the “risk” of impregnating their spouse through what they thought was consequence-free sex led them down the “slippery slope” to sexual relationships with other women.
If Dr. Hickman were speaking to a vasectomy seeker with a religious bent, he would state that “vasectomy circumvents God’s design for human sexuality and fertility”. He would mention the numerous men who related to him that immediately after their vasectomies, they left the doctor’s office and cried as they “knew in their hearts they had sinned.”
It is to be expected that men find themselves opening their hearts to Dr. Hickman with their stories of sorrow and woe. These men confide in him because of their hope that the good doctor will be the one to free them from anguish.
Dr. Hickman is a vasectomy reversal surgeon who has made it his life’s mission to restore infertile broken men to fertility and wholeness.
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