Need scripture to refute all sins are equal

[jujubee]

What passages in the bible best refute the idea that all sins are equal in God’s eyes? I need this to be able to be able to discuss with some Protestant friends.

A couple of years ago (before re-verting home) I was helping at my church’s VBS and one of the leaders was speaking to the kids (actually it was an altar call) and telling them that the cookie they steal or the mean thing they say to their sibling is just as bad as murder so all have sinned in God’s eyes and what you need to do is accept Jesus…etc…etc…you know how it goes.

So the situation was horrific to me on many levels. And without going into a lot of irrelevant personal details, I think I am going to have an opportunity to discuss this topic with some close Protestant friends. They are going to want scripture.

Thanks for the help.

 

[Ruthie]

Here ya go:

If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal. 1 John 5:16-17 (RSV)

Ruthie

 

[Bishopite]

What passages in the bible best refute the idea that all sins are equal in God’s eyes? I need this to be able to be able to discuss with some Protestant friends.

A couple of years ago (before re-verting home) I was helping at my church’s VBS and one of the leaders was speaking to the kids (actually it was an altar call) and telling them that the cookie they steal or the mean thing they say to their sibling is just as bad as murder so all have sinned in God’s eyes and what you need to do is accept Jesus…etc…etc…you know how it goes.

So the situation was horrific to me on many levels. And without going into a lot of irrelevant personal details, I think I am going to have an opportunity to discuss this topic with some close Protestant friends. They are going to want scripture.

Thanks for the help.

1 John 5:16-17
“If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God * will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.”

Notice that it says “mortal” some translations say “leads to death” (NIV). Mortal and lead to death are both grave or mortal sins. Also notice that there are sins which don’t lead to death.

But the one that they really can’t deny is where Jesus tells Pontius Pilate during His passion in John 19:11
that Herod has the “greater sin.”

"Jesus answered him, "You would have no power over me unless it had been given you from above; therefore he who delivered me to you has the greater sin."

---

Ask them how could Jesus tell Herod he had the greater sin if all sin is equal?

And of course ask them if cursing is equal to child abuse?
What many Protestant’s don’t see in scripture is that it almost always speaks of sin (not always but mostly) as an eternal consequence which it is, but there are still differing degrees of acts of sin. Hope that helps.

 

[jujubee]

Would a Protestant reply be that yes some sins are worse than others but they all deserve the same punishment (death or hell I guess)?

And from a Catholic perspective in the 1 John passage… my initial reading (don’t think I’ve come across this passage before) makes me think it is saying we should not pray for those with mortal sin. But that doesn’t sound right. Can someone help me out with that one?

I am so grateful for this board. Thank you.

 

[mark_a]

What passages in the bible best refute the idea that all sins are equal in God’s eyes? I need this to be able to be able to discuss with some Protestant friends.

A couple of years ago (before re-verting home) I was helping at my church’s VBS and one of the leaders was speaking to the kids (actually it was an altar call) and telling them that the cookie they steal or the mean thing they say to their sibling is just as bad as murder so all have sinned in God’s eyes and what you need to do is accept Jesus…etc…etc…you know how it goes.

So the situation was horrific to me on many levels. And without going into a lot of irrelevant personal details, I think I am going to have an opportunity to discuss this topic with some close Protestant friends. They are going to want scripture.

Thanks for the help.

I understand your concern, especially since he was talking to kids.

But have we reduced ourselves to jumping through hoops for these people by proving everything with scripure something that is so obviously just plain old common sense?

 

[jujubee]

I understand your concern, especially since he was talking to kids.

But have we reduced ourselves to jumping through hoops for these people by proving everything with scripure something that is so obviously just plain old common sense?

No, because the point is to have a loving and grace-filled conversation with people. And a good place to start that with them is to sit down and open up their own bible.

Saying that something is obvious and just plain old common sense (without the use of scripture), well, them’s is fightin’ words to my Protestant friends.

I don’t have these conversations that often either so maybe I’m not as tired of it as others may be.

 

[mark_a]

No, because the point is to have a loving and grace-filled conversation with people. And a good place to start that with them is to sit down and open up their own bible.

Saying that something is obvious and just plain old common sense (without the use of scripture), well, them’s is fightin’ words to my Protestant friends.

I don’t have these conversations that often either so maybe I’m not as tired of it as others may be.

You’re right, of course.

It still made me think though.

Good luck with your conversations.

 

[Spirithound]

What passages in the bible best refute the idea that all sins are equal in God’s eyes? I need this to be able to be able to discuss with some Protestant friends.

And without going into a lot of irrelevant personal details, I think I am going to have an opportunity to discuss this topic with some close Protestant friends. They are going to want scripture.

Revelation 21:8 is a list of types of sinners who will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

 

[Ilroy]

Would a Protestant reply be that yes some sins are worse than others but they all deserve the same punishment (death or hell I guess)?

And from a Catholic perspective in the 1 John passage… my initial reading (don’t think I’ve come across this passage before) makes me think it is saying we should not pray for those with mortal sin. But that doesn’t sound right. Can someone help me out with that one?

I am so grateful for this board. Thank you.

What it means is basically that with the non-mortal sins, you pray for them, like we do during Mass, to have their sins forgiven. For mortal sins it takes much more - true repentance and going to the sacrament of confession, to have the sins forgiven. Simply praying for them does not forgive the mortal sins.
I know, maybe not completely clear, but hope it helps a little.

 

[mtr01]

And from a Catholic perspective in the 1 John passage… my initial reading (don’t think I’ve come across this passage before) makes me think it is saying we should not pray for those with mortal sin. But that doesn’t sound right. Can someone help me out with that one?

I am so grateful for this board. Thank you.

Well, you can pray for whomever you want, it certainly can’t hurt, and none of us can see into another’s soul, so there’s no way of knowing whether or not someone is in mortal sin. It may be argued that those in mortal sin need the most prayers. However, Catholic doctrine states that if one dies in a state of unrepented mortal sins, that person will suffer eternity in Hell. It seems likely (to me at least) that this is what St. John is referring to, as it fits in with what Our Lord said in Matt 12:32:

And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come.

The Church has interpreted this blasphemy (or speaking against the Holy Spirit) as final impenitence.

 

[sprout]

What passages in the bible best refute the idea that all sins are equal in God’s eyes? I need this to be able to be able to discuss with some Protestant friends.

A couple of years ago (before re-verting home) I was helping at my church’s VBS and one of the leaders was speaking to the kids (actually it was an altar call) and telling them that the cookie they steal or the mean thing they say to their sibling is just as bad as murder so all have sinned in God’s eyes and what you need to do is accept Jesus…etc…etc…you know how it goes.

So the situation was horrific to me on many levels. And without going into a lot of irrelevant personal details, I think I am going to have an opportunity to discuss this topic with some close Protestant friends. They are going to want scripture.

Thanks for the help.

Just to add to what’s already been said here there are also the “sins that cry out to God for vengeance”

1867 The catechetical tradition also recalls that there are “sins that cry to heaven”: the blood of Abel,139 the sin of the Sodomites,140 the cry of the people oppressed in Egypt,141 the cry of the foreigner, the widow, and the orphan,142 injustice to the wage earner.143

139 Cf. Gen 4:10.
140 Cf. Gen 18:20; 19:13.
141 Cf. Ex 3:7-10.
142 Cf. Ex 20:20-22.
143 Cf. Deut 24:14-15; Jas 5:4

vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a8.htm

 

[VociMike]

This isn’t scripture, but also ask your friends if they would fire their pastor if he had ten adulterous affairs. Then ask if they would fire him if he stole ten pennies from a fountain.

And what about “backsliders” who by their actions prove they were never saved to begin with. How many would say that a “Christian” who committed multiple child rape-murders was never saved to begin with? And how many would say that a “Christian” who stole multiple sugar packets from a restaurant was never saved to begin with?

 

[Trinity1984]

It’s fairly obvious to me that all sins are not equal in gravity. Unfortunately, what is often obvious to me is not true at all: each and everything we ponder must be answered by God’s revelatory Word. The damned, who will be judged for their sins, will no doubt experience different types of hell or judgment. They will all be in hell, but it seems that the nature and quality of the sins will determine ones place.

A good illustration of this concept can be found in contemplating the state of the blessed children of God. In The Kingdom of Heaven we will all have our uniquely determined and rewarded place. These positions will not mean that anyone is better than anyone else but will all be to the praise and glory of the God who redeemed us. So too, the damned will have their place according to what has been done in the body.

All sin however is in and of itself mortal. Sin by its very nature cuts us off from God and disrupts communion with Him. I don’t care if it is stealing napkins from a local restaurant or having an abortion. In our hearts we know both are wrong and because of committing them we deserve God’s present and eternal punishment. Only because of our Lord Jesus Christ do we have the Lord’s face shining upon us and being gracious to us.

It frightens me sometimes when I hear people splitting hairs trying to properly distinguish between mortal and venial sins. It seems that it can lead one to really not take notice of the sins that are, from our very limited and depraved human perspective, venial.

I believe, being a Protestant, that most of us still consciously or unconsciously, distinguish between sins. I can only speak as a Lutheran though, I don’t really know how a Calvinist would respond to the inquiry.

venial sins are still abominable in the sight of our Holy and Just Triune God. If anyone needs an example of that… read the account of how he dealt with the first two human beings: Doesn’t eating a forbidden apple seem sort of venial to you?

Hope this helps.

 

[mark_a]

It’s fairly obvious to me that all sins are not equal in gravity. Unfortunately, what is often obvious to me is not true at all: each and everything we ponder must be answered by God’s revelatory Word. The damned, who will be judged for their sins, will no doubt experience different types of hell or judgment. They will all be in hell, but it seems that the nature and quality of the sins will determine ones place.

A good illustration of this concept can be found in contemplating the state of the blessed children of God. In The Kingdom of Heaven we will all have our uniquely determined and rewarded place. These positions will not mean that anyone is better than anyone else but will all be to the praise and glory of the God who redeemed us. So too, the damned will have their place according to what has been done in the body.

All sin however is in and of itself mortal. Sin by its very nature cuts us off from God and disrupts communion with Him. I don’t care if it is stealing napkins from a local restaurant or having an abortion. In our hearts we know both are wrong and because of committing them we deserve God’s present and eternal punishment. Only because of our Lord Jesus Christ do we have the Lord’s face shining upon us and being gracious to us.

It frightens me sometimes when I hear people splitting hairs trying to properly distinguish between mortal and venial sins. It seems that it can lead one to really not take notice of the sins that are, from our very limited and depraved human perspective, venial.

I believe, being a Protestant, that most of us still consciously or unconsciously, distinguish between sins. I can only speak as a Lutheran though, I don’t really know how a Calvinist would respond to the inquiry.

venial sins are still abominable in the sight of our Holy and Just Triune God. If anyone needs an example of that… read the account of how he dealt with the first two human beings: Doesn’t eating a forbidden apple seem sort of venial to you?

Hope this helps.

Nice post.

I agree that catagorizing sins as mortal or venial could cause an idiot to think what the heck, its only a venial sin.

 

[DCD]

It’s fairly obvious to me that all sins are not equal in gravity. Unfortunately, what is often obvious to me is not true at all: each and everything we ponder must be answered by God’s revelatory Word. The damned, who will be judged for their sins, will no doubt experience different types of hell or judgment. They will all be in hell, but it seems that the nature and quality of the sins will determine ones place.

A good illustration of this concept can be found in contemplating the state of the blessed children of God. In The Kingdom of Heaven we will all have our uniquely determined and rewarded place. These positions will not mean that anyone is better than anyone else but will all be to the praise and glory of the God who redeemed us. So too, the damned will have their place according to what has been done in the body.

All sin however is in and of itself mortal. Sin by its very nature cuts us off from God and disrupts communion with Him. I don’t care if it is stealing napkins from a local restaurant or having an abortion. In our hearts we know both are wrong and because of committing them we deserve God’s present and eternal punishment. Only because of our Lord Jesus Christ do we have the Lord’s face shining upon us and being gracious to us.

It frightens me sometimes when I hear people splitting hairs trying to properly distinguish between mortal and venial sins. It seems that it can lead one to really not take notice of the sins that are, from our very limited and depraved human perspective, venial.

I believe, being a Protestant, that most of us still consciously or unconsciously, distinguish between sins. I can only speak as a Lutheran though, I don’t really know how a Calvinist would respond to the inquiry.

venial sins are still abominable in the sight of our Holy and Just Triune God. If anyone needs an example of that… read the account of how he dealt with the first two human beings: Doesn’t eating a forbidden apple seem sort of venial to you?

Hope this helps.

Who ate a forbidden apple?

Peace,
David

 

[Jerry-Jet]

All sin isn’t mortal.

Adam and Eve didn’t eat an apple.

Disobeying God is a mortal sin–just ask Adam and Eve!

 

[Trinity1984]

Forgive me it is called fruit, not an apple…

Jerry, I’m trying to understand your post a little more. It’s slightly confusing.

First you say, “All sin is not Mortal.” But then you go on to say, “Disobeying God is a moral sin.”

Sin, by definition, is missing the mark. All sin is missing the mark, and missing the mark is disobedience. Which, coincidentally, you say is mortal.

How then can we not truly conclude that all sin is inherently worthy of the just eternal wrath of Almighty God?

In order for the grace of God in Jesus Christ to truly touch our lives and impact it the way He wants we must have a true understanding of sin and it’s affront against God’s holiness.

Despite our limited understanding, God has made it very clear that even those deeds we deem venial or not worthy of true judgment are in reality worthy of giving us eternal separation from God.

Every sin I commit in my life, if understood truly, is enough to damn me to hell forever. Because I know that and consequently my absolute and total depravity as a fallen sinful creature, I can receive God’s grace, mercy, & love rightly. I can praise Him the way He desires and reflect the incredible love, mercy, and grace He’s given us freely in the One He loves; His Son Jesus.

 

[Nita]

Nice post.

I agree that catagorizing sins as mortal or venial could cause an idiot to think what the heck, its only a venial sin.

Worse yet is someone thinking they might just as well commit a mortal sin since it’s no worse than a *venial *sin!!

Nita

 

[Nita]

What passages in the bible best refute the idea that all sins are equal in God’s eyes? I need this to be able to be able to discuss with some Protestant friends.

A couple of years ago (before re-verting home) I was helping at my church’s VBS and one of the leaders was speaking to the kids (actually it was an altar call) and telling them that the cookie they steal or the mean thing they say to their sibling is just as bad as murder so all have sinned in God’s eyes and what you need to do is accept Jesus…etc…etc…you know how it goes.

So the situation was horrific to me on many levels. And without going into a lot of irrelevant personal details, I think I am going to have an opportunity to discuss this topic with some close Protestant friends. They are going to want scripture.

Thanks for the help.

I don’t know if your friends would accept OT evidence. If you go thru the OT Scriptures where God gives His ordinances and the punishment to be inflicted on those who disobey them, you’ll see some punishments are more severe than others, Assuming the punishment is proportionate to the offense, it would indicate that some actions are more offensive to God than others.
(Eg. Exodus 21 and 22; Lev 20 Lev 24:13-23)

Nita

 

[Jerry-Jet]

Christ leaves the soul with mortal sin–He doesn’t with venial sin–what’s so hard to understand about that concept?

The scriptures say that the JUST man falls seven times a day.

How could one fall seven times a day and still be called JUST?

By sinning venialy.

If the person committed seven mortal sins in one day he wouldn’t be just–7 venial sins committed and he would still be just because God would not have left his soul.