Need Scriptures Please

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I have a friend who really believes that whe really don’t have to do anything to go to heaven. Just make the alter call. (he’s Protestant of course). He also says our human nature is completely bad with no good in it at all. I know St. Augustine delt with this belief long ago I think the Manacheaist believed this. Does anyone have any scripture to support the belief that our human nature isn’t all bad after the fall.🙂
 
Alter call>Phil.2:12,Mt.7:21,James2:14,Mt.25,1Co.15:58,Ga.5:6,1Tim4:1,6:10,6:20-21,1Co9:27,2Tim2:11-13,Heb.4:1-11.Original sin>Through Baptism,our separation caused by our fallen state is Healed and is replaced by our adoption as Gods children.Ro.12:1-2,11Co:9:8,Ep.4:31-32,Phil.4:8,Col3:12-15,2Thes.2:15,Titus1:15-16.Ga.5:16-25,1Co.10:13.I Pray these will help.
 
Ward Randolph,

Hello and welcome to the Catholic Answers Forums. I hope you have a blessed and uplifting time here.

You have answered quite well–much better than I could have. I was only going to cite James 2.

Interestingly, there is an Evangelical definition of “faith alone” on an anti-Catholic board that I also post on. This definition says that “faith alone” includes repentance from one’s sins, acceptance of the Lordship of Jesus Christ, and obedience to His commandments. I am still trying over on that board to find out how this differs from Catholic teaching.
  • Liberian
 
I have a friend who really believes that whe really don’t have to do anything to go to heaven. Just make the alter call. (he’s Protestant of course).
Have him read ***Galatians 5:19-21 ***- Now the works of the flesh are plain: fornication, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

The “you” are Galatian Christians - those who your friend would say have made the “altar call”. This verse definitely shows there are a few requirements if we wish to keep the grace of salvation. (Also see Ephesians 5:3; Rev. 21:8)

***Matthew 5:31-46 ***is the parable regarding the judgement of the sheep and the goats. It shows that God expects more than just avoiding evil deeds; He also requires the doing of good deeds.
He also says our human nature is completely bad with no good in it at all. I know St. Augustine delt with this belief long ago I think the Manacheaist believed this. Does anyone have any scripture to support the belief that our human nature isn’t all bad after the fall
I’m sure there are probably more, but here are two:

***1 Samuel 13:14 ***where Samuel (referring to David) says to Saul:
“the LORD has sought out a man after His own heart; and the LORD has appointed him…”

***Jeremiah 3:15 ***“And I will give you shepherds after My own heart, who will feed you with knowledge and understanding.”

I’m sure your friend would agree that there is only goodness in God’s heart and no evil; therefore, if the hearts of these are to be like God’s heart, the likeness would be something good that is in them.

Nita
 
The Word of God says it after He created man. The tumbs up is not part of Scripture but it’s my interpretation.

Genesis 1:31 "And God saw all the things that he had made, and they were very good. And the evening and morning were the sixth day. "👍
 
The Word of God says it after He created man. The tumbs up is not part of Scripture but it’s my interpretation.

Genesis 1:31 "And God saw all the things that he had made, and they were very good. And the evening and morning were the sixth day. "👍
Just guessing, but his friend will probably say that was “before” Adam sinned.
 
I was thinkin of this one, “For if you love those who love you, what good is that? Even pagans do as much.” or the steward who is fired but crafty to avoid homelessness. I think Christ points out in the first that at least pagans love their own kin, although the love there is merely natural, as opposed to supernatural. Here’s a quote from a blog I wrote, if it would help in a philosophical sense:
please let me share a brief Catholic perspective. We distinguish between acts that are merely naturally
good from supernaturally good.

Let us begin with supernaturally good. The Infinite Love between the Three Divine Persons of the Most Holy Trinity is a SUPERnatural love in immeasurable (infinite) amount. It is a love that is so strong that it desires to SUFFER for even for one who would insult it.

Consider a young man who uses a girl for pleasure, like an object, and then discards her when he is finished. He has committed an insult of immeasurable proportion, for he has regarded a priceless creature called to everlasting commumion with and possession of the Infinitely loving God-- to love Him and the saints and receive reciprocal love endlessly-- as a mere finite object whose only worth is to be a vehicle towards a selfish gratification. hence, the insult is immeasurable, and hence his penalty is immeasurable.

Now the girl that is the victim could never, in a mere natural existence, desire good for the man who has done this. Only the supernatural grace of God, as a free gift, could enable the girl to desire the reconciilation of the man to God. In a mere natural condition, she could never do this.

And yet God’s love desires to SUFFER for the young man and thereby pay the man could never pay.

And so a SUPERNATURALLY good action is an action that is done with the posssession of sanctifying grace, which, in Catholic theology, is a finite, created participation in the Divine Life and Love of the Trinity. Hence, we are partakers of the Divine Nature, to the extent that the just man has received from God a true, ontologically existent spiritual essence that inheres in his soul (i.e, sanctifying grace), that, because whereas it is created and finite, is neverthless a true sharing in God’s Life, enables him to love God and his fellow man in some sense that God loves him and his fellow man.

So when Mother Teresa gave her deep love and compassion to the poor suffering souls in the degraded streets of Calcutta, she is giving this compasssion not merely for the materialistic benefit of these poor dying people, but that she may manifest, in as humble a way as possible, the Love of the Divine Savior to them, to show them that they are priceless and that God wills to give His Love to them forever, and even meaning to their remaining suffering, in that, with the possession of grace, they can unite their final dying sufferings to Christ’s and offer them for the Redemption of others, and hence truly increase the joy that they will hopefully possess with God once they cross the threshold of this life.

On the other hand, if an actress (won’t name names, but everybody knows who I’m talking about) seduces a man away from his wife, causing him to divorce and remarry, even if she should give a billion dollars to save children in Africa, it can profit her nothing if she does not possess the state of grace. The act would not be sinful necessarily, for it is indeed naturally good, at a bare minimum, but she cannot love these children in a supernatural sense, for since she does not love the true wife, she does not love God (for as the Apostle St. John writes in his first Catholic Epistle, “for if you do not love your brother, whom you have seen, how can you say you love God, whom you have not seen?”) And whoever does not love God in a supernatural sense, cannot then love creatures in a supernatural sense. And so whereas a billion dollars is alot of money, can it purchase a human being who has been insulted and betrayed?
 
Just guessing, but his friend will probably say that was “before” Adam sinned.
If they did say that then I would discuss the human design. Including the complexity of the design. If the person believes in Biblical Creation it is easier because they don’t have the distorted view of evolution and what that means about our physical body and soul and the unity of body and soul. A lot of Protestants believe in Biblical Creation which is good and useful in this case. A person can be bad but the design of the person is good. Draw that distinction here using the Biblical Creation world view.
 
I think there’s many direct and indirect explanations of this in scripture, which perhaps others have made reference to, above.

We all realize that God could have forgiven mankind of all sin, by an act of will. Then, reading scripture would be an exercise in studying how God saved us, without really trying, you might say, or by doing nothing. What I’m pointing to is that God saved us by doing something, and that was to send Jesus to die on the cross. But, Jesus did not do that alone. He said that to be His disciple, we had to forsake everything and take up our cross and follow Him. See John chapters 6, 7, and 17.

And, that leads to what has been said previously.

Not only that, but we are generally taught, even in the parables of Jesus, that when we do our duty (like a slave serving his master) – it is just that, a duty. One cannot look at the gospels and the NT without coming away with a sense of duty.

At some level, Protestants are constantly fighting Pelagianism, which says that we are saved by our own works, without the need for Jesus.
 
I have a friend who really believes that whe really don’t have to do anything to go to heaven. Just make the alter call. (he’s Protestant of course). He also says our human nature is completely bad with no good in it at all. I know St. Augustine delt with this belief long ago I think the Manacheaist believed this. Does anyone have any scripture to support the belief that our human nature isn’t all bad after the fall.🙂
this is my favorite scriptural example[there are many] of what happens when we fail to do the works God calls us to do… Jesus’s sacrifice made our salvation POSSIBLE, the rest is up to us… Just because someone says 'Lord, Lord"…does not mean they KNOW Jesus, nor is it a sure fire ticket to heaven

In this scripture, Jesus makes it PERFECTLY clear, what is required of us for our salvation

Matthew 25:30 - 45 seperation of sheep and goats ]
**The Sheep and the Goats **

31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. 34"Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37"Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40"The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’
41"Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44"They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45"He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

I hope this helps, peace of the Lord be with you.
 
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