Need solid resources on Catholic contraceptive teaching

[wolfpup]

Some of you might know that this is an area of Catholic teaching that I will struggle to be able to explain to family members.
Ideally I need good resources, scientific, unbiased and truthful about the social ramifications of CC teaching, especially in response to the AIDS crisis in Africa.

Some ideas that have been spouted that I need to be able to correct/explain:

Contraception leads to less people having the HIV virus
Abstinence programmes in the third world do not work
HIV is stopped by a condom and is unable to penetrate the condoms surface
The Vatican lies about the effect of condoms on the HIV crisis in Africa
The Vatican really wants to change church teaching but cannot because it would break papal/church infallibility
The Vatican will one day elect a liberal pope and the teaching will be changed
Not allowing condom use in the third world is practically murder, and the pope is complicit in the deaths of millions

Obviously those last three cannot be dealt with by showing any kind of scientific or social study, but for the rest, anything that proves the Catholic case accurately, scientifically and without bias or without lying (something they will no doubt accuse anything I show them of having) would be great.

Thanks

 

[Muze]

Some of you might know that this is an area of Catholic teaching that I will struggle to be able to explain to family members.
Ideally I need good resources, scientific, unbiased and truthful about the social ramifications of CC teaching, especially in response to the AIDS crisis in Africa.

Some ideas that have been spouted that I need to be able to correct/explain:

Contraception leads to less people having the HIV virus
Abstinence programmes in the third world do not work
HIV is stopped by a condom and is unable to penetrate the condoms surface
The Vatican lies about the effect of condoms on the HIV crisis in Africa
The Vatican really wants to change church teaching but cannot because it would break papal/church infallibility
The Vatican will one day elect a liberal pope and the teaching will be changed
Not allowing condom use in the third world is practically murder, and the pope is complicit in the deaths of millions

Obviously those last three cannot be dealt with by showing any kind of scientific or social study, but for the rest, anything that proves the Catholic case accurately, scientifically and without bias or without lying (something they will no doubt accuse anything I show them of having) would be great.

Thanks

Well, let me defend the Pope and the RCC a bit, here:

The RCC not only teaches not to use condoms, but also to abstain from all sex outside of marriage. That is their primary purpose. So, it isn’t as though the Pope is just telling people to stop using condoms. IF people believed what the Pope instructed, and obeyed it, the spread of AIDS would stop almost immediately.

So, one cannot say that the Pope is guilty of anything, as the solution he provides is actually better (if practiced) than condom usage.

 

[ANNE_2]

Adultary, fornication, homosexual acts are all Mortal Sins.
Abstinence from these mortal sins is the true answer for the best spiritual, physical and mental health.

Abstinence must be taught.
NFP must be properly taught for married couples.

CCC - “2399 The regulation of births represents one of the aspects of responsible fatherhood and motherhood. Legitimate intentions on the part of the spouses do not justify recourse to morally unacceptable means (for example, direct sterilization or contraception).”

CCC - " 2370 Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality.
These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom.
In contrast, “every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible” is intrinsically evil:

Thus the innate language that expresses the total reciprocal self-giving of husband and wife is overlaid, through contraception, by an objectively contradictory language, namely, that of not giving oneself totally to the other. This leads not only to a positive refusal to be open to life but also to a falsification of the inner truth of conjugal love, which is called upon to give itself in personal totality. . . . The difference, both anthropological and moral, between contraception and recourse to the rhythm of the cycle . . . involves in the final analysis two irreconcilable concepts of the human person and of human sexuality. **" **

 

[Joseph_L_Varga]

Well, let me defend the Pope and the RCC a bit, here:

The RCC not only teaches not to use condoms, but also to abstain from all sex outside of marriage. That is their primary purpose. So, it isn’t as though the Pope is just telling people to stop using condoms. IF people believed what the Pope instructed, and obeyed it, the spread of AIDS would stop almost immediately.

So, one cannot say that the Pope is guilty of anything, as the solution he provides is actually better (if practiced) than condom usage.

Muze is making a good point. The world is mad with the Pope that he doesn’t tell people, “if you go robbing the bank, wear a bullet-proof west”. What the Pope, and the Church are telling, instead, is “Don’t go bank robbing in the first place!”.

Well, maybe one day bulletproof wests will improve to the point of providing a better protection for bank robbers from being shot by security guards, and maybe condoms will also improve to the point of better preventing the spread of AIDS. As it stands now, condoms have an annual failure rate of 31% with respect to preventing infection with the HIV. That means, over a period of one year of sexual activity between couples in which one party is HIV positive, while the other party is not, 31% of those folks who were HIV negative in the beginning will end up infected by the end of the one-year period. But from the Church’s standpoint, it doesn’t matter whether the annual failure rate of condoms is so bad as 31%, or whether someone will invent a better condom in the future, pushing the annual failure rate below 10%, or possibly even below 1%. The Church teaches total abstinence for single people, and no extra-marital sex for people married to each other - and the failure rate of those methods is 0%, ZERO PERCENT. No condom can compete with that, whether we look at the present condoms with their abysmal performance of preventing HIV spread, or some hypothetical and yet to be invented better condom.

In addition, the Church is here to protect people’s souls, and frankly that’s the more important reason for the Church’s teaching on sexual morality, and abstinence/chastity. The fact that adherence to Church teachings will also protect people’s bodies from infection with STDs, while helpful, is only secondary to the benefits of protecting people’s souls.

The Church will never advocate that people should use condoms, not because they have bad failure rates, but because it’s immoral to use them in the first place. Similarly, the Church will not tell people to wear bulletproof wests when going bank robbing, to drive slowly while heavily intoxicated with alcohol, and so on. The Church tells instead, “don’t fornicate, don’t have extra-marital sex in the first place”, “don’t go bank robbing”, “don’t drive at all, thus endangering people’s lives, while intoxicated”, etc.

 

[Joseph_L_Varga]

Some of you might know that this is an area of Catholic teaching that I will struggle to be able to explain to family members.
Ideally I need good resources, scientific, unbiased and truthful about the social ramifications of CC teaching, especially in response to the AIDS crisis in Africa.

Some ideas that have been spouted that I need to be able to correct/explain:

Contraception leads to less people having the HIV virus
Abstinence programmes in the third world do not work
HIV is stopped by a condom and is unable to penetrate the condoms surface
The Vatican lies about the effect of condoms on the HIV crisis in Africa
The Vatican really wants to change church teaching but cannot because it would break papal/church infallibility
The Vatican will one day elect a liberal pope and the teaching will be changed
Not allowing condom use in the third world is practically murder, and the pope is complicit in the deaths of millions

Obviously those last three cannot be dealt with by showing any kind of scientific or social study, but for the rest, anything that proves the Catholic case accurately, scientifically and without bias or without lying (something they will no doubt accuse anything I show them of having) would be great.

Thanks

There’s a lake full of alligators, in my area. Now, let’s imagine government officials saying, “If you go swimming in Lake Okeechobee, take a knife with you. It will give you some measure of protection against alligators attacking you in the water.” Maybe they should start a program for equipping swimmers in Lake Okeechobee with “free”, taxpayer-founded pocket knives.

Wouldn’t that be ridiculous? Truly, you might be able to poke an alligator in the eye with your knife, and you might escape alive after being attacked. Yet, officials are advising people not to swim at all in the lake infested with alligators and venomous snakes, instead of telling them to take knives when going swimming in the lake. I think they are doing the right thing by advising people to stay out of harm’s way in the first place.

By contrast, government officials who distribute free condoms, are in fact endangering the lives of people who mistakenly assume that condoms will protect them. Let’s just recall this: the annual failure rate of condoms with regard to preventing HIV infection is 31%.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

The primary teaching is Humanae Vitae
vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html

Some of you might know that this is an area of Catholic teaching that I will struggle to be able to explain to family members.
Ideally I need good resources, scientific, unbiased and truthful about the social ramifications of CC teaching, especially in response to the AIDS crisis in Africa.

Some ideas that have been spouted that I need to be able to correct/explain:

Contraception leads to less people having the HIV virus

false no such data exists, most contraception has no effect on spread of disease, even condoms ONLY HELP IF activity is maintained or reduced. What actually happens is activity increases resulting in increased spread

Abstinence programmes in the third world do not work

So how is the disease spread ? see doctor’s remarks below

HIV is stopped by a condom and is unable to penetrate the condoms surface

this is two statements one is correct " unable to penetrate " however the spread continues via lose of item, damage to item, misuse of item

The Vatican lies about the effect of condoms on the HIV crisis in Africa

?? if they think it is a conspiracy theory what do they believe is the truth?

The Vatican really wants to change church teaching but cannot because it would break papal/church infallibility

? My opinion is it will go exactly opposite; it would seem soon a woman will be able to detect her cycle with great access? There is real issue lightly addressed which is the insurance aspect ie Teenagers should not have sex but maybe able to used the pill as insurance against unplanned or unwilling relations

The Vatican will one day elect a liberal pope and the teaching will be changed

They do not understand the teaching

Not allowing condom use in the third world is practically murder, and the pope is complicit in the deaths of millions

Obviously those last three cannot be dealt with by showing any kind of scientific or social study, but for the rest, anything that proves the Catholic case accurately, scientifically and without bias or without lying (something they will no doubt accuse anything I show them of having) would be great.

Thanks

*Here are some basic steps that you can take to protect yourself from STDs:

Consider that not having sex or sexual relations is the only sure way to prevent STDs.
Use a latex condom every time you have sex. (If you use a lubricant, make sure it is water-based.)
Limit your number of sexual partners. The more partners you have, the more likely you are to catch an STD.
Practice monogamy. This means having sex with only one person. That person must also have sex with only you to reduce your risk.
Choose your sex partners with care. Don’t have sex with someone whom you suspect may have an STD. However, keep in mind that you can’t always tell by looking if your partner has an STD.
Get checked for STDs. Don’t risk giving the infection to someone else.
Don’t use alcohol or drugs before you have sex. You may be less likely to use a condom if you are drunk or high. Know the signs and symptoms of STDs. Look for them in yourself and your sex partners.
Learn about STDs. The more you know, the better you can protect yourself. * webmd.com/sexual-conditions/guide/sexual-health-stds

more

Will condoms prevent HIV infection, the virus that causes AIDS? While it is better than nothing, the bottom line is that condoms cannot be trusted. A study from Florida looked at couples where one individual was HIV positive and the other was negative. They used condoms as protection during intercourse. Obviously these couples would be highly motivated to use the condoms properly, yet after 18 months, 17% of the previously uninfected partners were now HIV positive.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/epid-std.html

 

[Quatsch]

Humanae Vitae is a great place to start. It is short and quite easy to understand.

Also, there is a talk by Janet Smith titled Contraception: Why Not.

Here is a transcript of it: catholiceducation.org/articles/sexuality/se0002.html

 

[FCEGM]

Some of you might know that this is an area of Catholic teaching that I will struggle to be able to explain to family members.
Ideally I need good resources, scientific, unbiased and truthful about the social ramifications of CC teaching, especially in response to the AIDS crisis in Africa.

Some ideas that have been spouted that I need to be able to correct/explain:

Contraception leads to less people having the HIV virus
Abstinence programmes in the third world do not work
HIV is stopped by a condom and is unable to penetrate the condoms surface
The Vatican lies about the effect of condoms on the HIV crisis in Africa
The Vatican really wants to change church teaching but cannot because it would break papal/church infallibility
The Vatican will one day elect a liberal pope and the teaching will be changed
Not allowing condom use in the third world is practically murder, and the pope is complicit in the deaths of millions

Obviously those last three cannot be dealt with by showing any kind of scientific or social study, but for the rest, anything that proves the Catholic case accurately, scientifically and without bias or without lying (something they will no doubt accuse anything I show them of having) would be great.

Thanks

Dr. Janet Smith has written extensively on the Church’s teaching regarding artificial contraception; this website will bring you to a number of her articles (you might also want to get her books on Humanae Vitae):

aodonline.org/SHMS/Faculty+5819/Janet+Smith+9260/Dr.+Janet+Smith±+Welcome.htm

 

[wolfpup]

Thanks for all the resources.

I certainly understand the teaching. It’s pretty simple to me that if people followed the churches teaching there would be practically zero risk of HIV.
But still, they argue that it is too optimistic, or that people aren’t following other parts of the teaching so better for them to be safe, or that it is mainly those in hetro marriages who are at risk, not those using prostitution or having multiple partners. Does anyone know how to argue against this last point?

 

[Joseph_L_Varga]

Thanks for all the resources.

I certainly understand the teaching. It’s pretty simple to me that if people followed the churches teaching there would be practically zero risk of HIV.
But still, they argue that it is too optimistic, or that people aren’t following other parts of the teaching so better for them to be safe, or that it is mainly those in hetro marriages who are at risk, not those using prostitution or having multiple partners. Does anyone know how to argue against this last point?

Wolfpup, that thing with the hetero marriages seems scary to me. Are your acquaintances advocating that if one spouse is HIV positive, and the other is not, they should just keep having sexual intercourse with each other, using a condom?

I mean, if that’s what they are advocating, that’s reckless!

Regarding the Church teaching that single people should not fornicate, and thus stay out of trouble, I am one of these single people and I know many many more who are single, or were single in the past, and did just that! I’m not sure why do your acquaintances think that single people cannot control themselves?

 

[kepha1]

Some of you might know that this is an area of Catholic teaching that I will struggle to be able to explain to family members.
Ideally I need good resources, scientific, unbiased and truthful about the social ramifications of CC teaching, especially in response to the AIDS crisis in Africa.

Some ideas that have been spouted that I need to be able to correct/explain:

Contraception leads to less people having the HIV virus
Abstinence programmes in the third world do not work
HIV is stopped by a condom and is unable to penetrate the condoms surface
The Vatican lies about the effect of condoms on the HIV crisis in Africa
The Vatican really wants to change church teaching but cannot because it would break papal/church infallibility
The Vatican will one day elect a liberal pope and the teaching will be changed
Not allowing condom use in the third world is practically murder, and the pope is complicit in the deaths of millions

Obviously those last three cannot be dealt with by showing any kind of scientific or social study, but for the rest, anything that proves the Catholic case accurately, scientifically and without bias or without lying (something they will no doubt accuse anything I show them of having) would be great.

Thanks

Harvard Researcher agrees with Pope on condoms in Africa
Cambridge, Mass., Mar 21, 2009 / 10:11 am (CNA).- Pope Benedict’s recent brief remark against condoms has caused an uproar in the press, but several prominent scientists dedicated to preventing AIDS are defending the Pope, saying he was correct in his analysis. In an interview with CNA, Dr. Edward Green explained that although condoms should work, in theory, they may be “exacerbating the problem” in Africa…

Surprise: Study Finds Condoms Don’t Work
On July 20, a report was issued by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. A scientific panel co-sponsored by the National Institutes of Health (NIH), the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID), developed the report. It was based on a yearlong study in which 28 researchers reviewed 138 peer-reviewed, published studies on the heterosexual transmission of sexually transmitted diseases (STD).
Their findings were stunning. Basically, it boils down to this: There is no evidence to indicate that condoms prevent the heterosexual transmission of most sexually transmitted diseases. None.
The panel studied condom effectiveness in preventing the eight most prevalent sexually transmitted diseases: HIV, gonorrhea, chlamydia, syphilis, chancroid, trichomoniasis, genital herpes, and human papillomavirus (HPV). Condoms were not found to provide universal protection against any of these diseases.

Answering Four Common Objections About Contraception and Natural Family Planning
By Sarah F. Peterson

***Openness to life will strengthen and sanctify your marriage. Contraception will weaken and endanger it. ***

 

[kepha1]

Some of you might know that this is an area of Catholic teaching that I will struggle to be able to explain to family members.
Ideally I need good resources, scientific, unbiased and truthful about the social ramifications of CC teaching, especially in response to the AIDS crisis in Africa. Some ideas that have been spouted that I need to be able to correct/explain:

I’ll deal with each point using my above post as a qualifier.

Contraception leads to less people having the HIV virus .

The opposite is true.

Abstinence programmes in the third world do not work

This is also false.

*According to Edward C. Green, a professor at the Harvard School of Public Health, ‘basic behavioral changes in Uganda of 1987-95 have kept HIV prevalence declining up until now.’ The reason why the progress that has been made is now in jeopardy has more to do with dropping the emphasis on abstinence, he says, in exchange for a more condom-centered approach. *catholicleague.org/release.php?id=950

HIV is stopped by a condom and is unable to penetrate the condoms surface

Condoms don’t stop the mindset of behavioural recklessness. Technically, they should work, but humans are not just technical creatures.

The Vatican lies about the effect of condoms on the HIV crisis in Africa .

The real liar is Planned Parenthood, who, IMO, wants to exterminate the black race. They haven’t changed their policies since their foundress, Margaret Sanger, met with the Nazis. They are just more subtle about it.

The Vatican really wants to change church teaching but cannot because it would break papal/church infallibility

This lie is outrageous. What’s next? Re-writing the Creeds?

The Vatican will one day elect a liberal pope and the teaching will be changed.

If Satan were elected Pope the Holy Spirit would not allow him to teach an error. He could do a lot of damage, but infallible teachings are off limits. Popes are bound to the teachings of previous Popes.

Not allowing condom use in the third world is practically murder, and the pope is complicit in the deaths of millions.

This is hate propaganda made up by people who are ignorant of the facts, and/or brainwashed.

 

[wolfpup]

Thank you all for the help.
It does seem pretty reckless now I think about it. Now I have a response to give back to them.

 

[Rock_Happy]

Some of you might know that this is an area of Catholic teaching that I will struggle to be able to explain to family members.
Ideally I need good resources, scientific, unbiased and truthful about the social ramifications of CC teaching, especially in response to the AIDS crisis in Africa.

Some ideas that have been spouted that I need to be able to correct/explain:

Contraception leads to less people having the HIV virus
Abstinence programmes in the third world do not work
HIV is stopped by a condom and is unable to penetrate the condoms surface
The Vatican lies about the effect of condoms on the HIV crisis in Africa
The Vatican really wants to change church teaching but cannot because it would break papal/church infallibility
The Vatican will one day elect a liberal pope and the teaching will be changed
Not allowing condom use in the third world is practically murder, and the pope is complicit in the deaths of millions

Obviously those last three cannot be dealt with by showing any kind of scientific or social study, but for the rest, anything that proves the Catholic case accurately, scientifically and without bias or without lying (something they will no doubt accuse anything I show them of having) would be great.

Thanks

Some of these are difficult arguments to counter in a secular world.

Obviously, the Church’s teaching that sex outside of marriage of any sort is sinful addresses the issue of HIV, and other sexually transmitted diseases (other than blood borne transmission to intravenous drug users). The problem is that people will sin. So, you need to address the relative moral issue of whether a truck driver in Africa should use a condom when he hires a prostitute. Obviously, he should not hire the prostitute, but should he, his wife and his future children be cursed with HIV is he does sin? Where is the line between reality and reasonableness?

The Pope is consistent in his teachings on sexual behavior. I don’t see how holding a firm stance in this area is complicit in murder. It does not follow logically. He offers a moral solution to the problem. Those who choose not to follow it will have to make their own decisions regarding birth control and condoms, but that is not the Pope’s responsibility in any way.

My personal opinion is that if a person is going to engage in sexual activity outside of marriage, then they do have a moral obligation to prevent the spread of sexually transmitted diseases. This is not the same as saying that I approve of such sexual behavior.

 

[wolfpup]

Obviously, the Church’s teaching that sex outside of marriage of any sort is sinful addresses the issue of HIV, and other sexually transmitted diseases (other than blood borne transmission to intravenous drug users). The problem is that people will sin. So, you need to address the relative moral issue of whether a truck driver in Africa should use a condom when he hires a prostitute. Obviously, he should not hire the prostitute, but should he, his wife and his future children be cursed with HIV is he does sin? Where is the line between reality and reasonableness?

I think you raise an intersting point. Didn’t Pope Benedict say some along the lines of this recently? That contraception is always a sin, but those who do it may be applauded at least for thier concern for thier family and wanting to protect them. Obviously, if that was taken to it’s logical conclusion they wouldn’t sleep around in the first place.
Also, I have heard that the prohibition of contraception only applies within marriage, since sex is licit only in marriage anyway - so if one was committing adultery they would not have a moral obligation to use contraception, the same applying to rape. Is this true?

 

[Texas_Roofer]

…Obviously, the Church’s teaching that sex outside of marriage of any sort is sinful addresses the issue of HIV, and other sexually transmitted diseases (other than blood borne transmission to intravenous drug users). The problem is that people will sin. So, you need to address the relative moral issue of whether a truck driver in Africa should use a condom when he hires a prostitute. Obviously, he should not hire the prostitute, but should he, his wife and his future children be cursed with HIV is he does sin? Where is the line between reality and reasonableness?
…

I think you raise an intersting point. Didn’t Pope Benedict say some along the lines of this recently? That contraception is always a sin, but those who do it may be applauded at least for thier concern for thier family and wanting to protect them. Obviously, if that was taken to it’s logical conclusion they wouldn’t sleep around in the first place.
Also, I have heard that the prohibition of contraception only applies within marriage, since sex is licit only in marriage anyway - so if one was committing adultery they would not have a moral obligation to use contraception, the same applying to rape. Is this true?

The issue discussed is the management of sins, I would hope the Church does not pursue that path.

 

[wolfpup]

The issue discussed is the management of sins, I would hope the Church does not pursue that path.

What do you mean?

 

[Muze]

What I really don’t get is why the Church assumes people won’t follow their teaching on sex and marriage, but assumes people will follow their teaching on contraception…

Seems to me that if the former is kept, the latter is rather moot.

And, for that matter, with their complaints about failure rates in contraception how they can complain that they are to blame for depopulation problems…

 

[Cristiano]

What I really don’t get is why the Church assumes people won’t follow their teaching on sex and marriage, but assumes people will follow their teaching on contraception…

Seems to me that if the former is kept, the latter is rather moot.

And, for that matter, with their complaints about failure rates in contraception how they can complain that they are to blame for depopulation problems…

The Church knows that we are sinners and that we damage our relationship with God. However, that will not stop Her from doing what is pastorally appropriate. The teachings on contraception are part of and consistent with the teachings on sex and marriage.