need some advice

[brierpatch1974]

Need some advice and some prayers of understanding as well. I am not catholic but haeve been looking into it a lot lately. I am having a hard time with things and believes of the Church when the church does not enforce its own rules and beliefs.

One example is why people who are not following church doctrine are still allowed to recieve communion. Like politicians who support abortion, birth control and other issues and claim to be a devout Catholic. The Church needs to enforce these rules or they just look like a fraud, or worse, a hypocrite. Why is the Church afraid of politicians. And if it is a local issue why doesnt the church come down on the local leaders and make them enforce it.

Its hard to believe when the church leaders doesnt enforce and practice what it preaches. I am just having a hard time with things right now.

 

[Church_Militant]

Since all people are on a journey of faith, and all are sinners, then if, as some religious people seem to think, all those who fail in their duties and sin are thrown out, just how many souls would be in the Church?

Did Our Lord throw out every sinner that He encountered? What does the New Testament say about that? What do we find happening in the Gospels, and who was it that complained most about those whom Our Lord ate and drank with and what was His response when asked about this?

Ultimately, would there be room in such a Church for such as you and I?

 

[brierpatch1974]

I never said to throw them out but church leaders must re-enforce their teachings and beliefs to new members as well as old. By letting them carry out false beliefs and not reminding them of the errors is why the church loses a lot of respect. Why would anyone have any respect for the leaders who do not lead?

We are all sinners yes but that has nothing to do with the point or the question. If the Church refuses to enforce it’s beliefs then you have to wonder how good is the Church to begin with? Or why someone should even bother with it.

The church leaders from top to bottom are suppose to teach us and help guide us but by allowing this kind of behavior to continue and grow will just lead to more corruption and more people leaving the church.

I am not talking about a few local leaders here and there. These issues concern the entire Church all the way up to the Pope.

 

[carn]

If the Church refuses to enforce it’s beliefs then you have to wonder how good is the Church to begin with? Or why someone should even bother with it.

Because its not the Church refusing to enforce it’s beliefs, but the Pope/Bishops refusing to follow Church’s teaching (assuming the errors you perceive actually happen).

At other times Bishops and maybe even Popes refused to follow the Church’s teaching regarding fornification or even murder in very personal and direct way. That does not make the Church’s teaching wrong. It is of course bad for promoting what the Churchs teaches.

I am not talking about a few local leaders here and there. These issues concern the entire Church all the way up to the Pope.

I am quite confident that the current Pope is concerned about catholic doctrine of faith, as chances are high he gained some passing knowledge regarding the knowledge, care and actual enforcement of Doctrines of Faith during his previous job:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Ratzinger_as_Prefect_of_the_Congregation_for_the_Doctrine_of_the_Faith#Lutheran_Dialogue
"Joseph Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI, was from 25 November 1981 Cardinal-Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, formerly known as the Holy Office, and, especially in the mid-2nd millennium, as the Roman Inquisition. "

Consider it is not so much a lack of will, but a lack of ability to enforce important issues:
“The German Bishops’ Conference established counseling centres that saw 20,000 women. After been counseled roughly 5,000 decided not to have the abortion. In 1997 Pope John Paul II ordered the German bishops to withdraw the counseling support. Cardinal Ratzinger, as prefect of the Congregation for the Faith, was given the task of carrying out John Paul’s instructions. In 1999 the German bishops unanimously rejected the demands of the CDF. Only in 2000 did the bishops conference end the counseling service, which was preventing 5,000 abortions a year.”

If it takes 3 years to enforce a direct and clear order of the Pope, enforcing less obvious issues might be even more lengthy and complicated. (Note: The counseling always included the issue of a counseling certificate, which in Germany is the requirement for performing a abortion without facing punishment. So that counseling helped women to get an abortion done and therefore the Pope ordered the counseling to be stopped.)

 

[catholicgamer]

What do you suggest the church do in these cases.

 

[brierpatch1974]

All I am saying is when people in politics claim to be a devout Catholic and are pushing laws to be passed supporting abortion and other things against Church doctrine then their Bishops needs to take them aside and tell them to stop or they will no longer recieve communion until they do stop.

And if their Bishop doesnt do that then who ever is in charge of the Bishop needs to take him aside and let him know what he needs to do or replace him with someone else to be in charge of that area and who will do the right thing.

Anyone who pushes laws to be passed that go against the Churches teachings should not be allowed to recieve communion and what ever else the Church can do to them until they come back to the true belief of the Church.

Like I said before I am not Catholic or any other denomination but I am seeking and learning. But it is hard for me to understand why leaders of the Church allow people to abuse the Church beliefs without doing something about it.

 

[catholicgamer]

All I am saying is when people in politics claim to be a devout Catholic and are pushing laws to be passed supporting abortion and other things against Church doctrine then their Bishops needs to take them aside and tell them to stop or they will no longer recieve communion until they do stop.

And if their Bishop doesnt do that then who ever is in charge of the Bishop needs to take him aside and let him know what he needs to do or replace him with someone else to be in charge of that area and who will do the right thing.

Anyone who pushes laws to be passed that go against the Churches teachings should not be allowed to recieve communion and what ever else the Church can do to them until they come back to the true belief of the Church.

Like I said before I am not Catholic or any other denomination but I am seeking and learning. But it is hard for me to understand why leaders of the Church allow people to abuse the Church beliefs without doing something about it.

You’re not alone in this feeling:

lifesitenews.com/news/excommunicate-catholic-politicians-who-support-planned-parenthood-american/

lifesitenews.com/news/canon-lawyer-speaks-on-excommunication-for-politicians-backing-planned-pare/

I would also like to see the hammer come down very hard on these people as well.

 

[eddy714]

All I am saying is when people in politics claim to be a devout Catholic and are pushing laws to be passed supporting abortion and other things against Church doctrine then their Bishops needs to take them aside and tell them to stop or they will no longer recieve communion until they do stop.

And if their Bishop doesnt do that then who ever is in charge of the Bishop needs to take him aside and let him know what he needs to do or replace him with someone else to be in charge of that area and who will do the right thing.

Anyone who pushes laws to be passed that go against the Churches teachings should not be allowed to recieve communion and what ever else the Church can do to them until they come back to the true belief of the Church.

Like I said before I am not Catholic or any other denomination but I am seeking and learning. But it is hard for me to understand why leaders of the Church allow people to abuse the Church beliefs without doing something about it.

Brethren I can see where you are coming from.

Church Militant said it well we are all sinners, and all we can do is pray for these politicians so that their actions can be changed. And it is also up to us as U.S citizens to be voting against things like this and not supporting there campaign.

"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another." ( John 13:34-35)

Luke 15:11-32 read the Prodigal Son.

Be patient and continue to pray, and I hope you one day come in to our wonderful faith .

God Bless

Praying for the souls in Purgatory

 

[couponfit]

Need some advice and some prayers of understanding as well. I am not catholic but haeve been looking into it a lot lately. I am having a hard time with things and believes of the Church when the church does not enforce its own rules and beliefs.

One example is why people who are not following church doctrine are still allowed to recieve communion. Like politicians who support abortion, birth control and other issues and claim to be a devout Catholic. The Church needs to enforce these rules or they just look like a fraud, or worse, a hypocrite. Why is the Church afraid of politicians. And if it is a local issue why doesnt the church come down on the local leaders and make them enforce it.

Its hard to believe when the church leaders doesnt enforce and practice what it preaches. I am just having a hard time with things right now.

americancatholic.org/news/report.aspx?id=1864

catholicknight.blogspot.com/2012/01/pro-choice-catholic-politicians.html

lifesitenews.com/news/nebraska-bishop-catholic-politicians-who-support-planned-parenthood-should/

ncronline.org/news/justice/nun-excommunicated-allowing-abortion

civilliberty.about.com/b/2007/05/12/pope-excommunication-for-pro-choice-politicians.htm (This link is very helpful)

nationalcatholicreporter.org/word/word052804.htm (this one too)

chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/articolo/206336?eng=y

findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1141/is_1_45/ai_n31200692/

ncronline.org/blogs/distinctly-catholic/chaput-cites-disunity-among-bishops-canon-915

nytimes.com/2008/09/17/us/politics/17catholics.html?bl&ex=1221883200&en=1e3acb5115249581&ei=5087%0A

signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20040609/news_1n9catholic.html

time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,959099,00.html

nytimes.com/1989/12/03/us/abortion-and-religion-put-focus-on-election.html

articles.chicagotribune.com/2003-04-26/news/0304260240_1_abortion-rights-catholic-officeholders-catholic-politicians

Some (partial listing) catholics barred from communion or excommunicated include:
Patrick Kennedy in 2009
Joe Biden in 2008
Rudy Giuliani in 2007
John Kerry in 2004
Gray Davin in 2003
Mario Cuomo in 1984
Lucy Killea in 1989

 

[littlepilgrim]

This problem has been in the church since the beginning. Judas was an apostle chosen by Jesus himself and He knew what Judas was going to do. This parable has always been used to explain why even evil people should be left in the church.

Mt 13:24-30 "He proposed another parable to them "The kingdom of heaven may be likened to a man who sowed good seed in his field. While everyone was asleep his enemy came and sowed weeds all through the wheat ad then went off. When the crop grew and bore fruit, the weeds appeared as well. The slaves of hte householder came to him and said, ‘Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? Where have the weeds come from?’ He answered, ‘An enemy has done this.’ His slaves said to him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’ He replied, 'No, if you pull up the weeds you might uproot the wheat along with them. Let them grow together until harvest; then at harvest time I will say to the harvesters, “First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles for burning; but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”

It might not look like evildoers are being punished but sooner or later they will be. Don’t let Judas keep you from being a disciple.