Need some help with prayers to Mary!

[Odell]

Here is the context of a debate I’m in.
The person whom I’m debating said we should use pray as scripture uses the word. In which I gave these two passages.

Genesis 13:8 “And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I PRAY thee, between me and thee, and between my herdmen and thy herdmen; for we be brethren.”

What do you know Abraham praying to Lot and his fellow herdsmen

Acts 8:34 “And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I PRAY thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man ?”

Did you catch that?? Philip was just PRAYED to by the eunuch. Blasphemous!!! Said only Y@/&: ever

I then asked why they accept the terminology of scripture yet not when Cathilics use the very same language of the bible. There responce follows

Because pray is not used as a transitive verb Odell… it is used as an intransitive verb as I have already noted on a reply to T@$/. Sorry you missed that post but I assumed this was common knowledge as English is my native language. Evidently it is not yours? Also do not blaspheme the name of the Lord please. And you are without excuse sir.

English is not my strong suite so any help would be great. Thanks!
I left the names out.

 

[bzkoss236]

This use of the word pray isn’t that of worship. The word pray means ‘to ask’. It was used much more in old English. So older English translations of the bible will used the word pray for ask, because that is how it was used. It is only in recent history that the word pray is associated solely with religious prayer and worship. Catholics still hold the original definition of prayer when we use it.

So, those verses are saying “I ask of thee”.

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

“Pray” can mean “to entreat or implore” and also means “to make a request in a humble manner”. This is the context of the word pray in the Scriptures you cited. “Pray” can mean to address God with adoration, confession or petition. When a Catholic “prays” to a saint, we are making a request. We are definitely not worshipping them or acting as if that saint has any power on their own to answer the prayer. We ask that saint to pray for us, or more precisely, to hand our prayer to God through their righteous hands.

With regard to prayers to Mary or any other saint I would argue from the standpoint that as Catholics we believe that those in heaven are a “great cloud of witnesses” (Heb 12:1). They are as present to us as those who are living. This is what many non-Catholics do not understand. They believe that because these souls are in heaven (some don’t even believe they are in heaven) that they are somehow cut off from the living. But they are very aware of what is happening with us. This is clearly demonstrated in Tobit 12 when the angel Raphael reveals that he heard Tobit’s prayer and presented it to God and God heard and answered him. Sadly, most non-Catholics do not have the book of Tobit in their Bibles because it was removed from their Bibles. But if you haven’t read it, do so because it really attests to the fact that those in heaven can hear our prayers (through the power of God, of course).

The Scriptures repeatedly tell us to pray for other people, even St. Paul asks people to pray for him. So, generally, non-Catholics do not have a problem with praying for other people who are still here on earth. However, because they believe that saints cannot hear our prayers they have a problem with intercessory prayer and also they have a problem with it because they misunderstand what intercessory prayer is. Firstly, it must be explained that we do NOT worship Mary or believe that Mary or any saint has any power on their own to grant prayers. We are simply asking them to pray for us because they are closer to God than we are. Remember, Scripture says that the prayer of the righteous avails much (Jas 5:16) and who is more righteous–someone who is in heaven or a sinner still on earth? Someone in heaven has been fully purified, they are free from sin completely for nothing unclean shall enter heaven (Rev 21:27). So, these are the reasons we feel we can and should ask for help from the Blessed Virgin or other saints.

This website has a lot of Scriptural supports for intercessory prayer.

 

[Odell]

How would you address transitive verb and intransitive verb directly?? I have not come across this argument and they are trying to insult my intelligence.

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

How would you address transitive verb and intransitive verb directly?? I have not come across this argument and they are trying to insult my intelligence.

Here is an article that might help you. It addresses the word prayer in the transitive and intransitive senses.

 

[Jennifoo]

:doh2: OY! What an argument to get embroiled in! Sad to say, but there are a lot of Protestants that are so anti-Catholic, they will go to great lengths to cherry-pick our Faith and insert problems where there are none. A number of former Protestants say that they were taught to hate Catholics and everything about us. Sad.

Good for you for hanging in there and getting all the information you can. Saint Peter would be proud.

 

[EricFilmer]

English is not my strong suite so any help would be great. Thanks!

How would you address transitive verb and intransitive verb directly?? I have not come across this argument and they are trying to insult my intelligence.

Odell, here’s the distinction between transitive and intransitive verbs: The Writing Center.

Here’s the distinction specifically with the use of the word, “pray”: Merriam-Webster.com.

I’m not really sure what the point is that this person is trying to make. It could be a smoke-screen. Or maybe it’s because I’ve had a busy day, it’s late and I’m half-asleep & not thinking clearly. But the way I see it, neither use of the verb “pray” (transitive or intransitive) necessitates an act of worship / adoration. In any event, I guess I need to see a more detailed elaboration of his position before I can comment further.

 

[Odell]

Odell, here’s the distinction between transitive and intransitive verbs: The Writing Center.

Here’s the distinction specifically with the use of the word, “pray”: Merriam-Webster.com.

I’m not really sure what the point is that this person is trying to make. It could be a smoke-screen. Or maybe it’s because I’ve had a busy day, it’s late and I’m half-asleep & not thinking clearly. But the way I see it, neither use of the verb “pray” (transitive or intransitive) necessitates an act of worship / adoration. In any event, I guess I need to see a more detailed elaboration of his position before I can comment further.

I think I got it figured out thank you.