Need source for Ruthenians allowing EMHCs when over 75 people present

[Woodstock]

I think it is in the Ruthenian particular law, but I am not sure. Can anyone provide the source for Ruthenians allowing lay Eucharistic ministers when no other ordained ministers are present and the crowd is larger than 75 people? I’m fairly certain that was the number, but I am open to corrections.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I do not think this is true.

The subject of EMHCs came up when I was on a come and see weekend at the Byzantine Seminary in Pittsburgh and the dean stated that this was only allowed in truly extraordinary situations and then it was usually a sub-deacon who would do it.

Now that does not mean that it isn’t done. Officially the altar servers are to be male but I have seen at least one case where a female served.

 

[Woodstock]

My disagreement with your understanding that infirmity is the only allowed reason for EMHCs is what led me to start this thread. I am willing to be corrected if what I have been told is wrong, but I would like to know what source covers this and what is says.

 

[Patchunky]

My disagreement with your understanding that infirmity is the only allowed reason for EMHCs is what led me to start this thread. I am willing to be corrected if what I have been told is wrong, but I would like to know what source covers this and what is says.

I only know of one priest who cannot distribute the Holy Eucharist because he has arthritis so bad he can’t hold the chalice. He has a Deacon that assists him during the DL and distributes Holy Eucharist to the congregation.

 

[Woodstock]

I know of a couple Ruthenian parishes where deacons unnecessarily distribute, one beside the priest with a second chalice and one instead of the priest who has no physical reason not to distribute himself. I was told by two priests and a deacon about the over 75 rule, but I have not personally seen it used.

 

[Patchunky]

I know of a couple Ruthenian parishes where deacons unnecessarily distribute, one beside the priest with a second chalice and one instead of the priest who has no physical reason not to distribute himself. I was told by two priests and a deacon about the over 75 rule, but I have not personally seen it used.

Our Deacon regularly distributes the Holy Gifts. If it’s a Holy Day DL, he will do it by himself. If it’s a Sunday DL, the priest will help him.

This is part of his job as a Deacon.

I’ve been to many, many DL’s and this is the common practice both here and in Europe.

 

[Aramis]

I think it is in the Ruthenian particular law, but I am not sure. Can anyone provide the source for Ruthenians allowing lay Eucharistic ministers when no other ordained ministers are present and the crowd is larger than 75 people? I’m fairly certain that was the number, but I am open to corrections.

How about Ruthenian Particular Law itself…
Metropolitan Particular Law:

Canon 709 §2

§l. In cases of true necessity, deacons may distribute the Divine Eucharist.

§2. In the same cases, even minor clerics and members of the laity can be designated to distribute the Divine Eucharist.

 1o. A parish may have one person designated for this purpose plus another for each 75 communicants at the Liturgy.

 2o. The metropolitan Liturgical Commission is to prepare a program of training that includes theological and spiritual formation, the selection process for candidates and a practicum.

 3o. Those persons may take communion to those who, by reason of illness, infirmity or age, cannot attend the Divine Liturgy regularly.

 4o. If any priest or deacon is present at the Liturgy, in any capacity whatever, he is to make himself known to the principal celebrant and shall distribute the divine Eucharist, vested insofar as possible, and taking precedence over any minor cleric or lay person present.

as posted on byzcath.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=334

 

[Woodstock]

Thank you Aramis! I didn’t want to argue the point further until I knew for sure.

Patchunky:

Our Deacon regularly distributes the Holy Gifts. If it’s a Holy Day DL, he will do it by himself. If it’s a Sunday DL, the priest will help him.

This is part of his job as a Deacon.

Did you mean to be saying that the deacon is the ordinary minister of the Eucharist in the east over the priest? I’ve never heard anyone argue that.

ByzCath:

The subject of EMHCs came up when I was on a come and see weekend at the Byzantine Seminary in Pittsburgh and the dean stated that this was only allowed in truly extraordinary situations and then it was usually a sub-deacon who would do it.

I hope that doesn’t mean that having more than 75 people is an extraordinary situation for the Ruthenians!

 

[Aramis]

The deacon is allowed in cases of “true necessity”.

One person may always be so designated. The deacon if one, then the subdeacon, then the laymen.

A second is allowed when it hits 75+ people.
A third at 150.

So if you have a priest and deacon, both may distribute communion without breaching the wording used. If the priest is ill, infirm, or the bishop thinks the deacon needs the practice.

In the Ruthenian church, the deacon is a semi-ordinary minister of Holy Communion… priests are preferred, but it is within the duties of the deacon.

 

[Woodstock]

So if you have a priest and deacon, both may distribute communion without breaching the wording used.

Aramis,
I’m no canon lawyer, but I don’t get the above from what was posted.

What I get is that one person for every 75 people may be designated for distributing in extraordinary circumstances, meaning one may always be designated with one more at each interval (as you said).

Where I differ is that the one person who has it within his duties to distribute the Eucharist in those extraordinary circumstances is a deacon, and if there isn’t one it may be any ordained person or even a member of the laity. I don’t see anywhere an allowance for a healthy priest with less than 75 communicants to have the deacon ordinarily distributing with or for him.

 

[Aramis]

Aramis,
I’m no canon lawyer, but I don’t get the above from what was posted.

What I get is that one person for every 75 people may be designated for distributing in extraordinary circumstances, meaning one may always be designated with one more at each interval (as you said).

Where I differ is that the one person who has it within his duties to distribute the Eucharist in those extraordinary circumstances is a deacon, and if there isn’t one it may be any ordained person or even a member of the laity. I don’t see anywhere an allowance for a healthy priest with less than 75 communicants to have the deacon ordinarily distributing with or for him.

simple: round up, or even round normally. MoHC=1+(Comunicants/75).
For him is more appropriate than with him if the population is under 35 communicants; either way, it’s not a clear violation…

The Eparch of each eparchy has the authority to define necessity.

 

[Woodstock]

simple: round up, or even round normally. MoHC=1+(Comunicants/75).
For him is more appropriate than with him if the population is under 35 communicants; either way, it’s not a clear violation…

The Eparch of each eparchy has the authority to define necessity.

How do you get that it is more appropriate for a deacon to distribute the Eucharist in place of a healthy priest on an ordinary basis when the congregation is under approximately 35 people in light of the first line of the canon? What’s the true necessity?

In cases of true necessity, deacons may distribute the Divine Eucharist.

 

[twf]

*Necessity *really is a vague word. Latin law stipulates that lay ministers only distributed the Holy Communion when there is “grave necessity”…and look how common EMHC are in most North American Latin parishes.

 

[Irish_Melkite]

The Ruthenian Particular Law is based on this from the CCEO

Canon 709

1. The priest distributes the Divine Eucharist or if the particular law of his own Church sui iuris establishes it, also the deacon.

1. The synod of bishops of the patriarchal Church or the council of hierarchs is free to establish appropriate norms, according to which other Christian faithful can distribute the Divine Eucharist.

As to the precise numbers that the Ruthenians use as a guideline, I am unsure of their origin. To the best of my knowledge, no other Byzantine Church presently allows this.

Many years,

Neil