Need translation from womanese ;)

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Chevalier, dulicissima is right… don’t overanalyze. Just enjoy. It sounds lovely. Don’t worry about competition. The woman knows and chooses which man she prefers. And if she doesn’t prefer you, it doesn’t matter if you are the only guy she is talking to. And if she has a thing for you, fifteen guys singing outside her window at night won’t knock you out of first place.

You did just fine letting her do all the talking. She probably came away thinking how fascinating you were and what a good listener. (We deal with too many men who do all the talking about THEMSELVES) and so when we meet one who is genuinely interested in US, it’s a breath of fresh air.

If she’s interested and grows more interested, you won’t have to ask us anymore. She’ll be texting you and posting on your wall on Facebook all the time. She will remove all doubt herself.

Just be kind, courtly, respectful and interested and be the non-drunk, non-pawing, non-loutish guy in the crowd of jerks. And if she doesn’t go for you, she might decide her best friend is perfect for you. Because that’s the nice thing about us girlfriends. We look out for our best friends. And we love to fix people up.

So just be you. If she doesn’t go for the non-act real you, you don’t want her anyway. Good luck. 👍
 
Thank you, well, letting the woman talk is always a good idea, isn’t it? 😉 though I do remember a, “what are you contemplating?” “I’m waiting what you’ll say,” moment. I even know the “veil of mystery” effect is technically advantageous, but it’s so not my style. I’m not so tense about it any more, but I actually managed to pull muscles on both my arms from the tension earlier today. I’m surprised how strongly I react, but well, she’s one of the lady friends of the old time in addition to always having been very special - these days if I meet someone, I don’t care so much. Ideally I’d play open cards and just tell her everything that went on in my head and heart over those several years.

And I’m not interested in her best friend. Her best friend is not the girl I went out with every week in the last class of highschool, roamed parks with at night, went to cafes, texted back and forth in French (yeah, I know, but she was like that too, hehe), always had a soft spot for, always felt protective about, always felt a special connection with and prayed every day for. 😉

As for competition, I just think how many so-so guys end up with great girls just because they’re the only ones that will approach them. Sometimes being in the right place at the right time does the job. Wouldn’t like it to be the case, especially after what I’ve seen and what happened today (I particularly mean how receptive she was, how cute it turned out and how I felt when I saw the same picture of Jesus in her wallet that I carry in mine - Torino Shroud). I already made a huge mistake by not pursuing her when she was even far more receptive and cooperating (and yes, she did show a lot of initiative of her own). I don’t want to make a stupid mistake and let her disappear from my life. I fear, however, I might come across as somewhat too eager. For example I wanted to use the impetus and gain some field tonight and phoned her - she didn’t pick up and it would soon be too late, so I texted her saying I hoped she had no unpleasantness happen to her as a result of being late because of me, and I wanted to wish her a good night. I instantly got a, “Hello, thanks for the nice meeting and the flowers. Good night.” Maybe she didn’t mean to tell me to back off, but it clearly was somewhat official and short. It looks like whatever I do, I do wrong and I just can’t do it right. It was easier 6 years ago.
 
Keep in mind, she is doing dumb things that she didn’t mean to do, too. She probably didn’t mean to be so short with the text message, for example. And maybe she is embarrassed that she talked too much, or got giggly, or something.

Don’t worry so much. 😉
 
Sure, she bragged about her successes and even about how three different mostly young teacher figures were fascinated with her, so I guess she was under some influence too. 😃
 
Since I’ve already described the situation, I find it a bit difficult and I’m not good at it when I’m invested, I thought I’d ask for some advice too… At this point I’m decided to make moves and even be open if need be. Just having some trouble choosing the right pace and finding a golden middle between inaction and smothering, while avoiding the possibility of losing her to a guy getting lucky in the meantime. How good or bad does the situation look and what would be the right pacing now? I’ll be phoning her on Friday and setting something up probably on Monday (we’ve already agreed on the art museum but not on the time yet) - the sooner the better and with a nice and light “it’s a date then” when we set up the time, so she knows I’m not limiting it to friends. Since there’s vast experience to be found in this forum, perhaps someone has even been in a similar situation… So far I don’t know where I stand, if she has anyone, if our last meeting was more like a date or less, if her behaviour was romantic or not, so there’s a lot of guessing for me. I am hesitant about bringing it all up with her and I think it’d be better to prepare her a bit first - except I wouldn’t like anyone to have the chance and snatch her while I’m waiting.
 
I just hope you don’t end up losing this girl like my best friend for four years lost me because he was acting like you and i was acting like her. Anyway in my case i really liked him enough to say yes if he asked but prayed he didn’t ask because he wasn’t catholic though he went with me to the catholic church.
 
Unfortunately, that’s possible. Not only does it feel like things have waned over years, there’s also the feeling as if there were some kind of strain between us - not a barrier, but some kind of problem we can’t realise. Maybe it simply hurt her that I didn’t make any moves back then, when she was probably very invested. Whatever happens to me now is my fault, but I wish it could work out. I’m sorry to hear about you and your friend. I’ll remember you in my prayers.
 
If you both want it to work out, then you can make all kinds of mistakes. If one doesn’t really want it to work-out, doing things to perfection may not even work. Stop worrying and just assume she’s into you, and wants you to make a move to push things along, until she proves you wrong. If she is half-ways nice and she doesn’t want that, she’ll feel bad and will try to help you save some face. Afterall your intentions are good; your not out there trying to “play” her. You’re fine, just step up and ask her.
 
I’m not sure if she wants it to work out. Today’s conversation was quite disheartening. Background info: I have her home number. I have 1200 minutes free for home phones on evenings and weekends in my mobile plan. We talked in idiomatic Polish, hence strange syntax. Square brackets are background comments.

(text message yesterday after two calling attempts), I: “Don’t be belle dame sans merci! 😃 Let me catch you! :D” [Literally something like, “allow yourself to be caught”]

(2 pm today), She: “Hey, Firstname, you were calling me yesterday. How are you? I, alas, am [extremely] busy recently, so I haven’t even been able to read your article. Regards.”

I: “Are you home perhaps? - if so I’d phone.”

She: “Alas, I am just going to a meeting. [Have a /wish you a] nice Saturday. At least the weather is fine. :)”

I: “I’ll phone in the evening then, ok?” [Probing - wanting to get any info about the nature of that meeting - meeting means anything between a business appointment and a date, including group events or even parties]

She: “I may return somewhat late, so maybe not today. Something urgent? Till [next] contacting [each other].”

I: “But of course! An urgent wish to see you!” [Playing it romantic to give her a hint and open my cards, making it a bit of a joke for comic relief.]

She: “That’s nice to me [literally something like “that makes me feel nice” or “I feel nice”], but alas I cannot promise a meeting because I need to close a somewhat urgent matter, i.e. prepare a ton of documents. Regards.”

I: “Pity. I’ll speak [to you] tomorrow.” [Playing tough and appearing unmoved.]

Being busy and hectic appears true rather than an excuse, but it seems like she’s heading for a meeting of unspecified nature while she has no time for me in such a way that she doesn’t even say, “can’t promise a meeting any time soon,” or “might not be able this coming week,” but just can’t promise a meeting. The rest sounds somewhat evasive. I wonder if that’s the same girl who walked the city arm in arm (or hand in hand, depending how you see it) with me, holding a bunch of flowers in the other hand on Tuesday and spent four hours talking and walking with me, also accepting an invitation to a formal dance while at it.

I was feeling bad after her first message and out of my breath after the second, getting only worse later. You can notice this in my regrettably deficient politeness. I got another of my nausaeating migraines. Of course, I’m going to pull off a, “Bonjour, princesse, comment ca va, are you going to be sans merci today too?” tomorrow in a light voice, but it’s going to cost me and the whole thing is giving me pain.

I may be dramatising with all my worries about her meetings and outings or the tone of today’s messages - perhaps it was not a brush-off, but… At any rate, while it sounds like a brush-off, her behaviour on Tuesday certainly didn’t look like one. She had even said we definitely needed to meet again in the closest time and accepted a ball invitation, after all, not to mention the thing with flowers and walking arm-in-arm. But this is all confusing.

What can she mean and what would be the way to deal with it? I’m pretty sure if I phone tomorrow she’ll be happy to hear from me, the conversation will become long and we’ll laugh a lot, as has happened before in such cases, but as I said, the text messages are confusing. I’m wondering about allowing myself an “accidental” slip, something like, “I’ve found quite a nice, romantic cafe. I thought maybe you’d like to go,” and then seeing how she reacts, but I somehow doubt I’ll get any real clue. Or I could ask how the meeting worked out and see if she gets tense (brushing me off, having/preferring some other guy) or dreamy (having a guy, totally not getting any hints) at that point or if it sounds like business (academic) or no big deal (friends/group), but I’m not sure I want to appear inquisitive. Just for the record, I’m planning on being extremely polite and kind, but no fawning on her or worming myself into her favour.
 
Ack, don’t do the “sans merci” thing again; it makes you seem like an Eyore. (Angling for sympathy.)

Try to just be more yourself, or if you can’t be yourself, then be a cheerful little boy, and just prattle on about your day, or something.
 
jmcrae said:
Ack, don’t do the “sans merci” thing again; it makes you seem like an Eyore. (Angling for sympathy.)

Try to just be more yourself, or if you can’t be yourself, then be a cheerful little boy, and just prattle on about your day, or something.
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Ah! Well, I was aiming for John Keats reference and a humorous twist. But yeah, probably sounds bad. I just don’t understand why she’s so evasive while just a couple of days ago she was walking arm in arm with me and kissing me for the flowers I got her and accepting a ball invitation, so one’d think she wouldn’t avoid me but the contrary - be open to me and having a soft spot at least. But now avoidance or whatever it is. Strange stuff.
 
Chevalier, you risk sounding like a glutton for punishment. If she can’t maintain any kind of consistency or stable behavior toward you, set her loose to torment someone else. Really. Real love doesn’t involve head games, teasing, inconsistency, or vagueness.

Maybe she is crazy… or unstable.

Really, before you go mad too, just bid her goodbye, tell her you tried, and WALK AWAY.

You don’t owe her anything for your behavior six years ago. If she can’t get over whatever happened or didn’t happen then, you don’t need her.

Please understand that when you have REAL LOVE, there’s no vagueness. You don’t have to guess what they’re thinking. You don’t have to ask strangers who don’t know her or didn’t witness the encounter what it all meant. YOU KNOW!!!

We have a song here with a lyric… “You can’t light a fire without a spark.”

She’s not helping you. Go find someone else and give her your love and attention. Let this one play her games with some other guy. Because let me tell you, by the time you get to a certain age, games are tiresome, boring and a waste of time. She shows a lack of maturity that she has a gentleman showing an awful lot of interest in her and she can’t either tell him to go away or welcome him back into her life wholeheartedly.

And if she’s so clueless she can’t understand the persistence and the flowers and the hopeful invitations, then you don’t need someone that dim mixing into your gene pool.

I think she understands completely and she’s just cruel. If she’s interested in someone else, let her have him. I always hated the girls who strung along several guys till they picked one.

Do yourself a favor. Delete her number and move on. Really. You shouldn’t have to work to convince someone your love is worth having.
 
Dittos to what Liberanosamalo said. You don’t want this one, really, and you’ll agree within a couple of years
 
Well. It was a cold shower conversation.

She was reserved initially. I asked her how she was. Information was concise, I didn’t dwell on it, same about me - she did ask. I then asked her how her meeting on Saturday turned out and she said it was business and not private, stressing the connection with her paperwork. She had to finish a while after talking, although she was interested in talking a bit and she had some information for me. I asked about that article of mine she was supposed to read, but she hadn’t been able yet. I told her I added her on Facebook while at it. Using the opportunity, I told her my mother got to see her and was enchanted with her, then explained it wasn’t just the pictures, when she tried saying she picked good ones. She said then I didn’t know her, I said I did and there was no reason to say anything bad about her and I would only say good things. So she said it was obvious I didn’t know her. I started protesting, told her I had known her for six years. She said, “that way I can know the Pope,” which I asked her to explain and reaffirmed my position politely. She was like, “well, let’s say,” I protested again. She said it was rather formally (i.e. that we knew each other rather formally). I told her it was true we’ve only seen each other a couple of times these years, but several years ago it was much more often than every two years that we met. She seemed to yield the field buy she had to be finishing. I raised the subject of the meeting, she said if she didn’t have to go to the other city (where she finished university), then OK, but if she had to go there, it would involve staying over. I said sure, it was several hours of a journey, so that as understandable. She said she would then not set the meeting this starting week, if I didn’t have anything against that. I told her I certainly wouldn’t have anything against that in “that” sense, but just wanted to go somewhere with her and wanted to tell her she made such a good impression on me I couldn’t wait until we met again, somewhat giving her to understand how important it was, so (please) remember about me, but do finish your important matters first. Told her to let me know how things developed in that other city. She said there was nothing to go well or bad because it was just formalities. At that point I told her, “so just good chance with it all,” and exchanged greetings I don’t even remember.

Positive signs:
  1. She explained the Saturday meeting as business, not private. She did that without any pressure on my part, meaning she had it on her mind and was catching somehow.
  2. She was civil and respectful.
  3. She didn’t emotionally slaughter me after the last part. If I said she made such a good impression on me I couldn’t wait until we met again (which I said in a perfectly calm tone admitting a shade of admonition I allowed myself). It seemed to make her react positively rather than negatively.
Negative signs:
  1. She was obviously somewhat hurt or offended. Her tone sounded exactly like an offended date.
  2. She couldn’t meet. If you really want you can. Either she’s serious about duty (to some extent she is, but she’s a procrastinator at the same time - a rare combo and a thing we have in common)
  3. She first said “okay”, but later moved on to a more decided statement about rather not preferring to meet this coming week. When I straightforwardly asked her to let me know what she would like to do so I could come up with something for when she’s back from that other city, she said we would talk then. In fact, she had said she’d probably have a friend (she-friend) do it for her, but if she had to go herself, it’d have to involve be long and include lodging. She changed to a more decided inability to meet me when I started asking what she liked doing and started enumerating examples. However, she was in a hurry and said we would talk about it after her return, so it’s not that bad, I guess.
  4. Knowing each other formally is certainly not how we knew each other those several years ago. She knows that.
Complex signs:
  1. No matter the content of what she said about knowing each other rather formally, it was obvious it began with discounting what positive I said about her. “You really don’t know me” is not a friends thing, it’s a dating thing. Its meaning is complex, but when it occurs it means something’s going on.
  2. And no matter the verbal content, she sounded like a hurt or offended date/love/whatever.
  3. My polite but decided protests against “knowing each other formally” seemed to hit home. It was obvious she knew it was more than that back in the time. They didn’t invoke any negative reactions and she ended up losing her speech, getting confused and even uttering something incomprehensible. My polite urging to let out what she had on her mind didn’t make her launch any big oratory, but it felt she was taking them positively.
 
Observations:
  1. There just can’t be a boyfriend there. Come on. It was pictures, mum, good impression, what else. Plenty of reason to say, “FirstName, I have a boyfriend.” Also, she did tell me, as if thinking I wanted to know, that the meeting was private - and the way she said it sounded a bit like grievance. For this reason I conclude there’s no third guy in the story.
  2. There’s obviously something to her tone. And the fact she didn’t brush me off in a “go away and die” way, but just unable to meet now, after all she heard, is saying something. I’d risk saying she isn’t hating the thought of my being interested in her, although the situation does look like there are clouds over my head.
  3. There’s an obvious contradiction between “FirstName, you always surprise me with something like this. smooch” and knowing each other rather formally.
Synthesis: Something’s good, something’s bad, something’s strange.

For some reason there’s hope though. Which is strange.

I’m thinking about being completely open and asking her what she enjoys doing, as well as being open about what an impression she made on me. I think when she’s back I’ll tell her we need to talk and I’ll seat her down in a nice cafe and tell her what I think about “formally” or about “only positive” or about “not knowing her”. And then I’ll smile and try to inspire some courage. If this doesn’t work, then few things will and I’ll probably rest my case.

Overall, I don’t know what to think, once again, but for some reason I’m calm about it. Probably because of many prayers and getting the help I asked for. I’m reconciled with the possibility she will not want anything to do with me, but I want to fight for this girl.
 
Liberanos, I have a bit of a guilt problem, but I think I’m now a bit more prepared to handle it. If what you said were true, then it would mean I was in my right 6 years ago, then the problem would be absent, leaving behind some good memories and some soft feelings.

I’d have to say inconsistency is there. I can point it out too. I’m long past the stage when a girl can say no wrong. Vagueness also. I would say no head games unless unintentional ones. I think she’s at least partly confused because the inconsistencies are of such a nature that gives this impression. They’re too obvious to be a game and I think they are the sign of a changing mind. She’s a lawyer. She just wouldn’t be caught being inconsistent. And may I ask where you see teasing? I can point at one or two instances of a flirtatious tone, but nothing teasing except maybe the denials when I tell her she’s pretty or smart or something (and she says I’m smarter, she isn’t pretty etc).

I wouldn’t say she’s crazy, though she might be unstable. There’s always been something mysterious about her. So indeed there is some possibility that perhaps I don’t know some sides of her.
She shows a lack of maturity that she has a gentleman showing an awful lot of interest in her and she can’t either tell him to go away or welcome him back into her life wholeheartedly.
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Yes, I’m beginning to see that in a negative light, although there’s the possibility that my narration shows me in a positive light and doesn’t reflect my smothering or head games which I might possibly be playing.
And if she’s so clueless she can’t understand the persistence and the flowers and the hopeful invitations, then you don’t need someone that dim mixing into your gene pool.
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In some circles here flowers will rarely be given between friends. That’d take a very traditional person, but I’m one of those, even if I do it rarely. She’s nearly the only one to whom it’s happened, except birthdays and such.

I’m sure she either gets the point or thinks I’m being suave. The latter is possible because I was a big charmer when I was younger.
I think she understands completely and she’s just cruel. If she’s interested in someone else, let her have him. I always hated the girls who strung along several guys till they picked one.
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She might be cruel. She most likely isn’t interested in anyone. She isn’t stringing me along, I think, though, and there might be some other reason. Chances are she might be unable to say no, not want to hurt me, be afraid of confrontation, prefer to give hints until they are understood etc. As everyone is capable of cruelty, myself included, and some of my treatment of her in the past might have involved it, I’ll see if that’s the case and if so, then if there’s a cause or purpose. If it’s nothing like strong emotions, wanting me to go away, or being hurt by me etc, then I’ll have to think about it a bit.

Besides, I think she might have taken my behaviour six years ago as a kind of rejection. Sadly, on many levels she’d be right. And there was always something strange between us like that. I’m going to put an end to that bad thing.
 
I think I tend to view it from the same perspective as you Chevalier. I guess you have two choices…go slow and give her a chance to warm up to there being something…or wear your heart on your sleeve and go in there right away letting her know how you feel. I guess I am more in favor of the go slow approach, maybe giving broad hints. Just try to find some peace in accepting either possible outcome.
 
Dulcissima, I suppose Liberanos makes more sense than I do and mine might be wishful thinking, though there is some intuition. I don’t rule out the possibility that I will here there was nothing 6 years ago and nothing now. Perhaps I imaginated the whole theory with her being hurt by something I did and perhaps I imaginated what later made me feel she had had a crush on me, though I’d say I didn’t. I think I’ll give up the analysing and just be myself for whatever comes, but for that I think I’ll need, oh paradox, a piece of good strategising on paper in order to avoid pointless mental dissection. And unfortunately I see the need to bear in mind what Liberanos and Ray said. There’s always the possibility of that.
 
Actually, I think I did wrong with those short replies on Saturday. They weren’t polite and they weren’t efficient either. She was wishing me a good Saturday and asking how I was, I didn’t even reply that but cut it with I’ll call laters. That’s probably why she felt somewhat hurt or offended today, I guess, if she really did, and I think she sensed her meeting was the reason. I guess I’ll apologise for that when she’s back. Surely not on the spur of the moment, though, more like when it’s calmer. The fact I want to apologise for that one doesn’t mean I don’t bear in mind what Liberanos and Ray said, though.
 
You know. Some time has passed and and I’m hurt by the knowing each other only formally and I find the part with the Pope (“that way I can know [even] the Pope”), I find rather rude. I cannot believe this is coming after what happened on Tuesday, much less after what was those six years ago. To discount it like that. There was much truth in what she said - as regards knowing each other we were more like acquaintances than like friends, but we did know things and we went out every week, every instance of it being like that Tuesday meeting or more than that - even 2.5 years ago she’d remember tiny details of some things I said which even I forgot. Not to dwell on the past, but just how untrue it feels.
 
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