Need your help here!

[StrawberryJam]

I posted on a protestant site about a catholic situation. I said it sounds like a bunch of baloney.

They were claiming that a catholic man who divorced by secular law, and refused to persue annulment, (his wife never persued annulment either)

Who married a catholic woman, who had never been married, does not have to get married in the church and they married in a courthouse, by a judge.

But, they both go to Mass and partake of the Eucharist and even have had a baby baptised in the church!
She is pregnant again!

And, their church will set up a baptism, knowing they NEVER did anything to make their marriage legit!

Guess what? She is expecting twins!

I said that is very odd. Why did the priest allow you both to partake of holy communion under these circumstances?

They said:

He knows. He knows our situation.

 

[lizds]

Protestants would have a very different view on this situation. What exactlly are you needing help with here?

 

[StrawberryJam]

Protestants would have a very different view on this situation. What exactlly are you needing help with here?

neither of the parties are protestant, so you may not be able to help.

 

[lizds]

I posted on a protestant site about a catholic situation.

Then why post on a protestant site?

 

[StrawberryJam]

Then why post on a protestant site?

You are right. I should not post to correct these catholics that have gone over the edge from what I can see.

Let them go to the Pentecostal church each Sunday, and only show up to Mass for big events in their lives like baptisms of children, And well, the minor detail of the eucharist?

If you want me to let them continue to be blatantly bragging about doing this, fine with me.

I thought you guys respected the Eucharist as if it were Jesus Christ, really and trully?

 

[mary1173]

I posted on a protestant site about a catholic situation. I said it sounds like a bunch of baloney.

They were claiming that a catholic man who divorced by secular law, and refused to persue annulment, (his wife never persued annulment either)

Who married a catholic woman, who had never been married, does not have to get married in the church and they married in a courthouse, by a judge.

But, they both go to Mass and partake of the Eucharist and even have had a baby baptised in the church!
She is pregnant again!

And, their church will set up a baptism, knowing they NEVER did anything to make their marriage legit!

Guess what? She is expecting twins!

I said that is very odd. Why did the priest allow you both to partake of holy communion under these circumstances?

They said:

He knows. He knows our situation.

Well from what I understand, an annulment needs to take place before you can remarry as Catholics in a church. Marrying outside the church provides a legal paper attesting to the marriage, but not the blessings given during the cerimony in a church setting. Likewise without being blessed by the church it will make it harder to get the children a full spiritual education in that if the couple does not adhere to traditions of the church, and picks and chooses which rules they like best, in the end they won’t have a clear picture muchless a good grounding in their catholicism. Without the annulment the second marriage isn’t legit. And, they are in the eyes of the church, living in sin and raising a child out of wedlock.
I hope this can shed some light upon this situation for you. Tell them to speak to a priest about fulfilling the annulment so that they can have their marriage re-blessed and the child won’t be considered ‘‘out of wedlock’’ by the church.
Bless You,
mary1173

 

[lizds]

You are right. I should not post to correct these catholics that have gone over the edge from what I can see.

Let them go to the Pentecostal church each Sunday, and only show up to Mass for big events in their lives like baptisms of children, And well, the minor detail of the eucharist?

If you want me to let them continue to be blatantly bragging about doing this, fine with me.

I thought you guys respected the Eucharist as if it were Jesus Christ, really and trully?

I never said I agree with what they are doing. There are many things wrong with this picture. I don’t believe the man should have gotten remarried, then again the reason behind the divorce would change my view. And they should definitly not partake in the Eucharist while in moral sin.

I was more so curious as to why you originally posted this situation on a Protestant site. A Protestant and a Catholics view on the situation would be almost extreme opposites.

 

[StrawberryJam]

I never said I agree with what they are doing. There are many things wrong with this picture. I don’t believe the man should have gotten remarried, then again the reason behind the divorce would change my view. And they should definitly not partake in the Eucharist while in moral sin.

I was more so curious as to why you originally posted this situation on a Protestant site. A Protestant and a Catholics view on the situation would be almost extreme opposites.

I did not post their problems. They did. They left the church.

I was trying to reason with them.

Do you understand now?

 

[mary1173]

You are right. I should not post to correct these catholics that have gone over the edge from what I can see.

Let them go to the Pentecostal church each Sunday, and only show up to Mass for big events in their lives like baptisms of children, And well, the minor detail of the eucharist?

If you want me to let them continue to be blatantly bragging about doing this, fine with me.

I thought you guys respected the Eucharist as if it were Jesus Christ, really and trully?

You are right to feel the way you do. I agree that it needs to be corrected for these people to understand what the whole thing;s about. But if they are Penticostal or Protestant to begin with, none of the efforts you make to make them change will work. People have to realize they are doing something wrong, they must WANT TO CORRECT IT, AND CORRECT IT . Otherwise they’ll be asked by God to atone for these mistakes. No one single person can do it alone. Pray for them to get this issue resolved. It’s the best answer I can offer.

 

[lizds]

I did not post their problems. They did. They left the church.

I was trying to reason with them.

Do you understand now?

That would make sense. I misunderstood the beginning of your post then. It’s odd that they themselves would post on such a site, being that neither of them were Protestant. Either way they were in the wrong, they should have had an annulment of the first marriage.

 

[StrawberryJam]

You are right to feel the way you do. I agree that it needs to be corrected for these people to understand what the whole thing;s about. But if they are Penticostal or Protestant to begin with, none of the efforts you make to make them change will work. People have to realize they are doing something wrong, they must WANT TO CORRECT IT, AND CORRECT IT . Otherwise they’ll be asked by God to atone for these mistakes. No one single person can do it alone. Pray for them to get this issue resolved. It’s the best answer I can offer.

They are both baptised catholics , confirmed catholics, and well, now I have no idea!

Why do priests let this happen?

 

[Seatuck]

God gave us free will. We can choose sin if we want
As far as the priest , many will not withhold baptism except for there being no trace of hope of the child knowing about the Catholic faith. We aren’t sure they have sat down with a priest and discussed this based on your information. You posts are confusing on one hand you say they left the faith on the other hand you say they are going to Mass.

Catholic teaching is that Christ made marriage permanent except in certain cases. We are not permitted to attempt another marriage until that is proven. We are not permitted to receive communion if we are not in a state of grace. We also have to be very careful when judging whether someone else is not in a state of grace.

Since you are not a Catholic living the Catholic faith you probably shouldn’t be giving too much advice in this area beyond a general knowledge. Praying for God’s will to be done is probably your best bet if you desire to help.

 

[1ke]

You are correct:

(1) They are in an invalid marriage
(2) They should refrain from Holy Communion because they are objectively in a state of mortal sin until their marriage situation is resolved (which they do not seem inclined to resolve)

As to the children:

(1) The Church does not require the parents to be validly married, or married to each other at all, to have the children baptized. The Church requires there be a well-founded hope that the children will be raised in the Catholic Church-- that’s because by baptizing them in the Catholic Church they are being bound to Catholic law. The Church doensn’t want to withhold baptism from anyone-- important as it is-- but wants at least the firm prospect they will be raised Catholic to be displayed. The parents should be counseled on their situation separately.

As to the priest:

He has clearly given these people bad advice. We don’t know why he has done so. He may be innocently mistaken about their situation or had poor training in marital law and not realize he’s told them wrong information. He may be a dissenter from the Truth and know exactly what he’s doing. He may be one of those priests who think being “pastoral” means hiding the truth from people who are in “situations” and letting them stay in their “situation” and telling them it’s “ok.”

We really don’t know. But, bottom line, he has done them a great disservice and he will have to answer to the Big Guy on judgment day for his own culpability in their situation, whatever that is.

 

[kage_ar]

Remember, in the Catholic Church, reception of the Eucharist is pretty much on the “honor system”. One does not have to show a card that is stamped from Confession, one does not have to present a marriage license…

Unless the Priest knows you and knows you are living in a state of sin, he will not withold the Eucharist.

Chances are these people lied to the Priest. May God have mercy on their souls.

 

[puzzleannie]

there is not enough information about this specific couple in this specific situation to offer an opinion. There is no possibility of garnering that information on this site, on a protestant site, or any other location. There is only one way to gather the required information and this is by either party contacting their Catholic pastor and laying down all the facts of their current marital situation, and that of all previous marriages, and the complete baptismal and marital history of any ex-spouses. The forum for that investigation is the canon law tribunal of the diocese, not the internet.

Unless the person posting on such a website is in a position to know all those facts, plus the interior condition of the soul of each of those individuals (and only the priest to whom they confess can claim that knowlege) they have no basis to raise any question at all about the outward behavior of any particular person.

If you are speaking of a hypothetical case posed on any forum, Catholic or not, in order to ask a sincere question about Catholic practice, you may direct the questioner to a legitimate Catholic source for information on Church teaching on marriage and annulment. But no one may post on the internet, publish, or claim in conversation that this or that individual is sinning. That is the sin of detraction and may also be a crime of libel or slander depending on the circumstances, so it would behoove us to warn anyone engaged in such a communication of that fact. In Christian charity we are always obliged to put the best possible construction upon any behavior we note in our neighbors, and not rush to judgement.

 

[Frankr409]

I was a little sad to read this, because I was also in a similar situation. It finally, finally dawned on me that you either accept everything that Jesus said about marriage or you should accept nothing that Jesus says. In fact, this is true of not only what Jesus said, but what the church says as well.

Jesus founded this church on Peter, who was also given the ability to bind and loose. In it’s infinite wisdom the church has come up with a process to determine the validity of the marriage sacrament, and in the case of the individual you have mentioned, he has yet to have his prior marriage examined.

When my annulment was declined by the church, I was at first in denial about it. My thought was that I had extenuating circumstances and I was exempt. Boy did I wake up and realize how wrong I was. I have since lived a chaste life, and I ask Jesus every day for the graces needed to accept his plan.

Those who want to “cherry pick” which parts of their Catholic faith they believe and which parts they do not believe in I offer the following verse from scripture. Rev. 3:16 says “But because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold, not hot, I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth.”