Need your Prayers and your input

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We just moved to Northern California from Logan Utah. In Utah I helped with the RCIA ever since my own Baptism 14 years ago. I have attended Mass every Sunday since. Today my wife and my youngest child walked out of the Mass here in California. Instead of a Homily the Priest asked a speaker to come forward. After 20 minutes of a tithing speech we all had our hearts so torn we walked out. We are home now and he is probably still speaking. We can find another church or start turning over tables. There was a lot of people attending this Mass. We are the only ones who left. Do you know how hard this was to do? Confession to follow. Help!

In Christ
 
I’m no expert on the GIRM, but I think it is against the rules for anyone other than a priest or deacon to deliver the predication. Was this speaker a priest?

There isn’t anything sinful or spiritually damaging about exhorting the faithful to tithe; it’s a laudible practice. Was he speaking of tithing (a spiritual thing) or was he talking about donating money to charity (a fraternal charity thing)? The latter isn’t wrong.

I will say, however, that even if things like that are mentioned, the sermon should be a time to teach the faithful, explain Scripture or a doctrine from the Readings, or challenge them to lead lives more in conformity with the Holy Gospel. I also wouldn’t object to the priest or deacon preaching about a discipline that is lacking (being reverent when approaching the Communion rail, why genuflect, why bless with Holy Water, etc.).

Maybe I’m missing what the problem is?
 
I am sorry for your experience this morning.
I strongly suggest that you call your pastor tomorrow and set up an appointment.

This may very well be an isolated incident. In my diocese we sometimes have missionary priests fill in, and sometimes they can be very passionate, to the point of being off-putting. I don’t believe that they mean to be, and we have to be empathetic to their positions.
That said, I do believe that a 20 minute “speech” on tithing is not appropriate.

Pray, go to confession and speak to your priest.

Please do not let one bad experience prevent you from getting involved.
 
I don’t blame you for being annoyed. Would I have walked out? Probably not…Eucharist is too important. I do however find it interesting though that the homily was on tithing on the same day we hear about Jesus getting angry at the moneychangers!
 
MariaGoretti88 said:
I’m no expert on the GIRM, but I think it is against the rules for anyone other than a priest or deacon to deliver the predication. Was this speaker a priest?

There isn’t anything sinful or spiritually damaging about exhorting the faithful to tithe; it’s a laudible practice. Was he speaking of tithing (a spiritual thing) or was he talking about donating money to charity (a fraternal charity thing)? The latter isn’t wrong.

I will say, however, that even if things like that are mentioned, the sermon should be a time to teach the faithful, explain Scripture or a doctrine from the Readings, or challenge them to lead lives more in conformity with the Holy Gospel. I also wouldn’t object to the priest or deacon preaching about a discipline that is lacking (being reverent when approaching the Communion rail, why genuflect, why bless with Holy Water, etc.).

Maybe I’m missing what the problem is?
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It was not a Priest. His speech was all about why he and his wife tithe. He told many stories. The problem for me was that it felt like the Mass just stopped, like it was put on hold. As if you were walking next to Jesus on the road to Calvary, then suddenly pulled away to speak about why we should Tithe. We left after 20 minutes and he was still speaking. He was telling jokes, Parishioners were laughing, but that tapered off after about ten minutes. For me it became excruciating. I have never witnessed anything other than a reverent Mass where the focus was always on Jesus and His Passion for us from start to finish. For me this was like being tortured. I had to dive into prayer, gaze at the Crucifix etc. I could not take it anymore. My wife and Son looked at me, all at the same time we got up. I gazed one last time at the Crucifix, made the sign of the Cross and left. Missed my first Eucharist of 14 years.
I will seek spiritual direction, I will take this to Confession.
 
Oneofthewomen said:
I am sorry for your experience this morning.
I strongly suggest that you call your pastor tomorrow and set up an appointment.

This may very well be an isolated incident. In my diocese we sometimes have missionary priests fill in, and sometimes they can be very passionate, to the point of being off-putting. I don’t believe that they mean to be, and we have to be empathetic to their positions.
That said, I do believe that a 20 minute “speech” on tithing is not appropriate.

Pray, go to confession and speak to your priest.

Please do not let one bad experience prevent you from getting involved.
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I have experienced what you are speaking about and have always felt it to be a good thing when a Mission Priest speaks after His Homily. This was different. One bad experience could never keep me from Jesus…his Church. I believe that the Liturgy of the Mass should not be tampered with. It alone is enough, when done well should raise all funds necessary to run a Parish. We move out from the Mass to do those things necessary. We should not do those things during our encounter with Jesus as Mass.

In Christ
Rich
 
Anna_Claire said:
I don’t blame you for being annoyed. Would I have walked out? Probably not…Eucharist is too important. I do however find it interesting though that the homily was on tithing on the same day we hear about Jesus getting angry at the moneychangers!/quote

My biggest regret was that I did not stand up and make a fool of myself. I believe I was asked by the Holy Spirit to do that. I would have screamed while shaking…

“this is the Most Holy Mass, what are you doing? Jesus is speaking to us, He is teaching us, He is walking to His Passion for us in time right now…what are you doing?..this is not the place, this is not the time for a pledge drive!”
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Catholic-RCIA,

You and your family are in my prayers. I probably would have walked out too to be honest.

However, you did the right thing about NOT standing up and making a scene. That is not the prudent way to go about it.

Like others have suggested, make an appointment to talk with the pastor. You may also want to check out other parishes if possible.

God Bless. And my prayers…
 
Marie5890 said:
Catholic-RCIA,

You and your family are in my prayers. I probably would have walked out too to be honest.

However, you did the right thing about NOT standing up and making a scene. That is not the prudent way to go about it.

Like others have suggested, make an appointment to talk with the pastor. You may also want to check out other parishes if possible.

God Bless. And my prayers…
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Your right. Although I came close. If you knew me you would think I would be the last person to do something like that. That’s how hard I was struck today. I’m going to go out on the limb and make a stand on this, I have no choice. First to Confession to the very Priest who approved this. Approached with an open heart. I do feel a heavy heart, not staying, letting this get to me to the point of no Eucharist. I will speak to the Father, I may make an appointment with the Bishop. If in the end we need to attend a different Parish we will do so. My only fear would be that they do this at their Mass as well. If this is the case they will get to all know me on a more personal level. I am not going to let this go. Its wrong.
 
catholic-rcia said:
It was not a Priest. His speech was all about why he and his wife tithe. He told many stories. The problem for me was that it felt like the Mass just stopped, like it was put on hold. As if you were walking next to Jesus on the road to Calvary, then suddenly pulled away to speak about why we should Tithe. We left after 20 minutes and he was still speaking. He was telling jokes, Parishioners were laughing, but that tapered off after about ten minutes. For me it became excruciating. I have never witnessed anything other than a reverent Mass where the focus was always on Jesus and His Passion for us from start to finish. For me this was like being tortured. I had to dive into prayer, gaze at the Crucifix etc. I could not take it anymore. My wife and Son looked at me, all at the same time we got up. I gazed one last time at the Crucifix, made the sign of the Cross and left. Missed my first Eucharist of 14 years.
I will seek spiritual direction, I will take this to Confession.
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Oh uh uh, yes I agree with you leaving in that situation. The Holy Mass not a place to have an agenda or make some kind of reactionary statement (we are SENT from the Mass to proclaim to the world what we have witnessed and that which our fathers in the Faith have passed on to us), and no one other than a priest or deacon is allowed to preach.

We shouldn’t joke or laugh in church (although it does happen, oh well, no damage done), but in that context and for that length of time especially by someone who doesn’t have the right to be “preaching” is unacceptable.

There are bulletins and churches usually have websites in this country if statements, admonitions, etc need to be made, but during the Mass, that is very inappropriate and should be discouraged. Please e-mail the pastor with your concerns.

Prayers for you, Rich.
 
It seems that in almost every Parish I have ever been in there is an annual commitment Sunday when we are asked to provide the parish with information concerning how we can support the parish in the coming year. Usually the priest will give a 2-3 minute homily and then invite someone from the parish to speak on the subject.

You may have just had the bad luck that your first time at the Parish was this particular Sunday. I suggest, try again.

Also, you might ask the priest, if he did not give a homily at all, to add a short homily before the presentation as it is required on Sundays and Holy Days with few exceptions (if any).
 
I understand your upset I have seen homilies given by 17 year old Philosophy students.
Canon Law is clear on this topic:

Can. 767 §1 The most important form of preaching is the homily, which is part of the liturgy, and is reserved to a priest or deacon. In the course of the liturgical year, the mysteries of faith and the rules of christian living are to be expounded in the homily from the sacred text.

§2 At all Masses on Sundays and holydays of obligation, celebrated with a congregation, there is to be a homily and, except for a grave reason, this may not be omitted.

However many Priest I know will ignore this and have talks by nuns etc. I guess it could be ok with dispensation from the Bishop?
 
Evan said:
You may have just had the bad luck that your first time at the Parish was this particular Sunday. I suggest, try again.

Also, you might ask the priest, if he did not give a homily at all, to add a short homily before the presentation as it is required on Sundays and Holy Days with few exceptions (if any).
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I was thinking this too, and that’s a good reminder about the sermons on holy days and Sundays 🙂
 
Believe it or not these tithing talks are very important although I agree that they should not take the place of the homily but done after communion. I work for a parish, a wealthy one at that, and you would not believe how many people just put a dollar in the collection. Many people don’t realize just how much is needed to run a parish so when parishioners are invited to talk about tithing they make people aware of how important it is to increase the amount they give and not keep it the same as ten years ago. Many of these talks tie in with the sacrifices the family makes to help support the parish and its many ministries. How else would people know about all this unless they say it at Mass when you have the largest amount of people? If you send a letter home it usually ends up in the garbage as soon a they see if talks about money. But to hear your neighbors talk about it is different.

I would encourage you not to complain to the pastor and to let go of the anger.When I was a kid in the early 60’s the pastor talked about money all the time. In fact my parents stopped going to church because all he talked about was money. I think we can put up with the once or twice a year pitch. This week we saw a 10 minute video after communion about the bishops annual appeal. Is it appropriate at Mass? Probably not. Is is effective in making people aware of their need to give to the parish or the diocese? Our collections have shown it is.
 
My guess is the Holy Spirit does not incite people to leave the Mass before the Eucharist. If anything it would be evil forces encouraging us to leave before we receive the Lord.

20 min is a bit much. My guess is that the pastor did not preview the talk.
 
Many parishes and diocese do a special fundraising “Lenten appeal” at this time of year. Yes, it was wrong to not have even the hint of a regular homily, but this is likely an isolated event. The gentlemen in question was probably the head of the finance committee.

Speak to the pastor before you make any final decisions. Each parish is different and while you found something you didn’t like right off, you may find many other things you like quite a bit.
 
It was not anger…it was hurt. The Church I came from in Northern Utah has survived very well without doing this. They would not do this because the Most Holy Mass is what it is. You never stop it. You find other ways, other times. Before the Procession, after the words this Mass has ended go in peace… the Mass supports this. We go out from the Mass, from Jesus to proclaim His life in order to help others find Him. In order to want to give more…the Mass supports this. Yes it would be easier to have a pledge drive during the Mass when you have all together, but which Catholic is looking for easy? This kind of easy makes those who know the Holiness of the Mass of Jesus very uneasy…sad. There are many other ways and times to have pledge drives. The Mass supports this. If the Bishop supports this he is wrong. It would be wrong for me as a Catholic not to proclaim this. I know all about forgiveness and reconciliation…utahmission.com/Forgive.html

I have an appointment with the Monseigneur next Thursday. I may have one with the Bishop as well. I will give him the observation from a family who just moved to his area. Take him in prayer through the steps we made on that day at the Mass.

Yesterday I traveled up the road about 20 minutes to another Parish in the mountains. Without going into any detail I asked a soul who had been there for many years if a tithing pledge drive would take place during the Mass. If a talk on this would take place by a Parishioner during the Mass. She said absolutely not.

When I walked into the 150 year old Chapel I knew I was home. Two crucifixes. One above the Altar and one in the back above two confessionals. Out in the hall another beautiful room, the Blessed Sacrament Chapel with a Sister in charge. After some time in prayer I made the decision to continue to go to the Church down the Hill. Why? utahmission.com/The-Mass.html
 
dconklin said:
My guess is the Holy Spirit does not incite people to leave the Mass before the Eucharist. If anything it would be evil forces encouraging us to leave before we receive the Lord.

20 min is a bit much. My guess is that the pastor did not preview the talk.
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I agree on both accounts, he seemed to be un easy as the talk went on.

How do you think the evil forces would try to do this? How could this force enter into the Mass? You are right, it got us. So where do I take this other than Confession? Was it the Holy Spirit that allowed a 20 minute talk by a Parishioner in the middle of the Mass? Possibly approved by the Bishop? Don’t know yet. Why would the Church up the hill from this Church not do this? Why was I crushed when others were smiling and laughing? If you yourself attended the one Passion of Christ, maybe you just helped Him carry the Cross, gazed at Him as they nailed Him to the Cross, heard His words to you upon the Cross. The next week you go through time and then attend the same Mass we attended. Just some thoughts.
 
Mrs_Sally said:
Many parishes and diocese do a special fundraising “Lenten appeal” at this time of year. Yes, it was wrong to not have even the hint of a regular homily, but this is likely an isolated event. The gentlemen in question was probably the head of the finance committee.

Speak to the pastor before you make any final decisions. Each parish is different and while you found something you didn’t like right off, you may find many other things you like quite a bit.
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You bet!
Nothing that happens outside the Mass surprises me. The reason I am Catholic is because I do know the battle. The Church is not a perfect place…it is a hospital for us sinners. All we need do is focus on the Cross, focus on the Mass, be focused at Mass, always on Christ. Nobody will take this focus from me our my family. Not even once a year. I am not out for a battle, but I am willing to battle this one.
In Christ
Rich
www.chooseyourcross.com
 
I agree that it is not pleasant to have these talks. And the GIRM does specify that no one but a priest is to give the homily.

That said, I have never belonged to a parish that did not have an annual commitment “homily”. In fact, there are usually two such occurrences: one for the individual parish and one for the diocese.) They are usually scheduled during what seems to be the homily time. (They are often preceded by a few brief words by the pastor; giving a talk about the need for the people to donate to the Church is a legitimate homily.)

I suspect that these requests for $$$ are technically intended to be the profession of Faith.
 
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