Needing advice - not sure what to do/say

[MosMama]

My husband and I have been married almost 8 years and have five children under 6, all born via c-section, the last pregnancy being a very difficult twin pregnancy. We have always practiced a very loose NFP as we weren’t really trying to avoid pregnancy.

We now find ourselves with five very small children in a house the holds us okay for right now. My husband is very concerned about my getting pregnant again, as the last pregnancy was a big strain on me physically. To avoid pregnancy, he wants to use condoms and I want to use NFP. I’m not exactly sold on NFP to the full extent, as it’s always been a little confusing to me and I am surrounded by so many families with “I really didn’t think I was going to ovulate” NFP babies. That said, I would be incredibly willing to do whatever it takes to learn it and learn it well. My husband feels very differently and suddenly does not feel that NFP is going to work for us.

I am trying to be understanding, as these kids are pretty overwhelming right now, but I’m frustrated and I’m just not sure what to say at this point. I am waiting for our parish priest to get back to me about spiritual direction and will talk to him then, but I’m not sure how to approach this. My husband is the kindest, gentlest, most loving and involved father I know, and he is such a fine leader for our family. I don’t feel like I could handle any more children right now and I DO want to move into the “raising” part of this, but the five we have are such a joy and I can’t imagine being “done” at 30.

I just don’t know if, as a Catholic family, it’s even okay to decide we’re “done,” and I don’t know how to help my husband find more confidence in NFP. I just need a place to vent this and I would love prayers as we figure this out. We want to be good Catholics, but it feels like we’re stretched as far as we can go before we break right now.

 

[UbiCaritas]

My husband and I have been married almost 8 years and have five children under 6, all born via c-section, the last pregnancy being a very difficult twin pregnancy. We have always practiced a very loose NFP as we weren’t really trying to avoid pregnancy.

We now find ourselves with five very small children in a house the holds us okay for right now. My husband is very concerned about my getting pregnant again, as the last pregnancy was a big strain on me physically. To avoid pregnancy, he wants to use condoms and I want to use NFP. I’m not exactly sold on NFP to the full extent, as it’s always been a little confusing to me and I am surrounded by so many families with “I really didn’t think I was going to ovulate” NFP babies. That said, I would be incredibly willing to do whatever it takes to learn it and learn it well. My husband feels very differently and suddenly does not feel that NFP is going to work for us.

I am trying to be understanding, as these kids are pretty overwhelming right now, but I’m frustrated and I’m just not sure what to say at this point. I am waiting for our parish priest to get back to me about spiritual direction and will talk to him then, but I’m not sure how to approach this. My husband is the kindest, gentlest, most loving and involved father I know, and he is such a fine leader for our family. I don’t feel like I could handle any more children right now and I DO want to move into the “raising” part of this, but the five we have are such a joy and I can’t imagine being “done” at 30.

I just don’t know if, as a Catholic family, it’s even okay to decide we’re “done,” and I don’t know how to help my husband find more confidence in NFP. I just need a place to vent this and I would love prayers as we figure this out. We want to be good Catholics, but it feels like we’re stretched as far as we can go before we break right now.

Well, one of the great things about NFP is that you don’t have to decide that you’re “done”! It’s not like sterilization, which is generally permanent. You discern month-to-month if the best thing for you, your family, and your marriage is to try to get pregnant, to avoid pregnancy, or to do what you’ve done so far–ie, observing and charting, but not really using strict NFP rules. I have a family member who was in a similar situation to yours a years ago. After five or six kids in close succession, she was feeling overwhelmed, and her doctor said that her body needed time to rest before she got pregnant again. They used NFP for three or four years for those reasons, and then had another few kids. The key thing here is to remember that you don’t have to make a final decision this minute, this month–or ever, really. It takes a lot of the stress off on both sides of the decision.

Right now, it sounds like you have several very good reasons to avoid, though of course only you two can make that decision. In that case, why not use NFP strictly? Leaving aside anything else, if you’re using the STM (has your cycle returned post-babies yet?) and sticking solely to Phase 3 and 4-5 days post-confirmed-ovulation, it is physically impossible for you to get pregnant. If there’s no egg, there can’t be a baby. Simple as that. This method does restrict intercourse to a little over a week per month, though, depending on your Phase 3 length. The families you mentioned can’t have been following this strict method if they’re saying “I really didn’t think I was going to ovulate,” as this method has you having intercourse only after ovulation has occurred. One can have intercourse during Phase 1, which is technically an infertile period, but Phase 1’s length can and does vary from cycle to cycle. Another idea is to combine the STM and urine dipsticks which detect pre-ovulation hormones. This would give you more time during Phase 1, though it still isn’t as reliable as sticking to Phase 3 only. I am not as familiar with the Creighton method, but it is mucus-based only and may be more helpful in finding that information out; I’ve read that those who use it usually have shorter abstinence periods than those who use a strict STM-Phase 3 only. Perhaps after a period of time, say a year or two, you and your husband might discern whether or not to start using NFP a little more loosely–a few days in Phase 1, for example–because your body and you both in general could handle another baby if and when it came along. Again, only you two can decide that; I’m just throwing some ideas out there.

Has your husband explained why he thinks that NFP isn’t going to work for you? Does he take the classes with you? If not, he should; he’s just as much a part of this as you are, after all. He may be reassured once he talks to a good instructor. Also, is he Catholic?

Best of luck to you both. And congratulations on those babies!

 

[maryjk]

My husband and I have been married almost 8 years and have five children under 6, all born via c-section, the last pregnancy being a very difficult twin pregnancy.**We have always practiced a very loose NFP as we weren’t really trying to avoid pregnancy. **

When you practice it loosely, you don’t practice it at all. Which is fine if you aren’t trying to avoid pregnancy. But you don’t want to use the fact that you got pregnant as a reason to not fully practice NFP.

We now find ourselves with five very small children in a house the holds us okay for right now. My husband is very concerned about my getting pregnant again, as the last pregnancy was a big strain on me physically. To avoid pregnancy, he wants to use condoms and I want to use NFP. I’m not exactly sold on NFP to the full extent, as it’s always been a little confusing to me and I am surrounded by so many families with “I really didn’t think I was going to ovulate” NFP babies. That said, I would be incredibly willing to do whatever it takes to learn it and learn it well. My husband feels very differently and suddenly does not feel that NFP is going to work for us.

There are many posters here that have used NFP to avoid pregnancy. And some of us have used it long term.

There are very strict rules to if you need to avoid. Not following those rules can lead to a “I didn’t know I was going to ovulate” baby.

I am trying to be understanding, as these kids are pretty overwhelming right now, but I’m frustrated and I’m just not sure what to say at this point. I am waiting for our parish priest to get back to me about spiritual direction and will talk to him then, but I’m not sure how to approach this. My husband is the kindest, gentlest, most loving and involved father I know, and he is such a fine leader for our family. I don’t feel like I could handle any more children right now and I DO want to move into the “raising” part of this, **but the five we have are such a joy and I can’t imagine being “done” at 30. **

I just don’t know if, as a Catholic family, it’s even okay to decide we’re “done,” and I don’t know how to help my husband find more confidence in NFP. I just need a place to vent this and I would love prayers as we figure this out. We want to be good Catholics, but it feels like we’re stretched as far as we can go before we break right now.

But what you are really saying is that you are done “right now.” That “right now” you need to avoid pregnancy.

Things may change down the road that would make it that you would actively try for more children.

Or things may not change.

Remember the Church asks that we willing accept children. It doesn’t ask that we actively try to get pregnant.

 

[His_helpmeet]

Remember the Church asks that we willing accept children. It doesn’t ask that we actively try to get pregnant.

In his encyclical, “Humanae Vitae”, Pope Paul VI stated that a couple could use NFP morally if they had a grave reason to do so. Concern over the health of the mother, as well as financial and family constraints, certainly is a grave reason. It is only a requirement that the family be open to life, not that they be willing to accept children at any time, for any reason. The Pope also stated that when considering whether or not they have a grave reason, a couple must consider the welfare of themselves, their existing children, and any children they will have in the future.

 

[1love]

We now find ourselves with five very small children in a house the holds us okay for right now. My husband is very concerned about my getting pregnant again, as the last pregnancy was a big strain on me physically. To avoid pregnancy, he wants to use condoms and I want to use NFP. I’m not exactly sold on NFP to the full extent, as it’s always been a little confusing to me and I am surrounded by so many families with “I really didn’t think I was going to ovulate” NFP babies. That said, I would be incredibly willing to do whatever it takes to learn it and learn it well. My husband feels very differently and suddenly does not feel that NFP is going to work for us.

With your birth history, I can understand why you would want to limit your family size. I have only had one c-section and recovering from that plus taking care of my other children was very difficult, and not something I’d willingly do again.

You might have friends with “broken condom” babies or “birth control pill” babies. Every method of family planning has a margin of error. When used properly, NFP is as effective or more effective at avoiding pregnancy than artificial birth control. Personally, I am one of those “my husband looks at me and I’m pregnant” types and I have successfully avoided pregnancy when needed using the Sympto-Thermal Method or Creighton. (First one, then the other - I never used both at once.)

Based on how you described your husband, I wouldn’t be surprised if he is willing to go against Church teachings because he fears for your health and well-being. I wonder if it would reassure him to know how effective NFP can be if you are willing to use it regularly. It is kind of a pain sometimes, but you could offer up your frustration for your husband’s peace of mind (and your’s).

When you practice it loosely, you don’t practice it at all.

In Creighton, if you are not actively using NFP to prevent a pregnancy, you are labeled “trying to achieve pregnancy.”

 

[maryjk]

In his encyclical, “Humanae Vitae”, Pope Paul VI stated that a couple could use NFP morally if they had a grave reason to do so. Concern over the health of the mother, as well as financial and family constraints, certainly is a grave reason. It is only a requirement that the family be open to life, not that they be willing to accept children at any time, for any reason. The Pope also stated that when considering whether or not they have a grave reason, a couple must consider the welfare of themselves, their existing children, and any children they will have in the future.

Since many people haven’t read the encyclical, I was referencing their wedding vows.

Will you accept children lovingly from God and bring them up according to the law of Christ and his Church?

 

[Xantippe]

This isn’t to the OP, but I have to say that this sort of situation is exactly why providentialism annoys me. It’s all fun and games until you have 5 or 6 kids and serious health concerns, and then suddenly the condoms come out.

To the OP, as people have mentioned, I think it’s time you learned a conservative NFP method, for instance, a Phase 3 version with a couple extra days tacked on to be very sure. It will cut down substantially on your days of availability, but it will be more effective than condoms and should give you more peace of mind. (The thing to watch out for is phantom temperature rises due to illness, but with enough extra days, that should not be a problem.)

 

[Rau]

My husband and I have been married almost 8 years and have five children under 6, all born via c-section, the last pregnancy being a very difficult twin pregnancy. We have always practiced a very loose NFP as we weren’t really trying to avoid pregnancy.

We now find ourselves with five very small children in a house the holds us okay for right now. My husband is very concerned about my getting pregnant again, as the last pregnancy was a big strain on me physically. To avoid pregnancy, he wants to use condoms and I want to use NFP. I’m not exactly sold on NFP to the full extent, as it’s always been a little confusing to me and I am surrounded by so many families with “I really didn’t think I was going to ovulate” NFP babies. That said, I would be incredibly willing to do whatever it takes to learn it and learn it well. My husband feels very differently and suddenly does not feel that NFP is going to work for us.

I am trying to be understanding, as these kids are pretty overwhelming right now, but I’m frustrated and I’m just not sure what to say at this point. I am waiting for our parish priest to get back to me about spiritual direction and will talk to him then, but I’m not sure how to approach this. My husband is the kindest, gentlest, most loving and involved father I know, and he is such a fine leader for our family. I don’t feel like I could handle any more children right now and I DO want to move into the “raising” part of this, but the five we have are such a joy and I can’t imagine being “done” at 30.

I just don’t know if, as a Catholic family, it’s even okay to decide we’re “done,” and I don’t know how to help my husband find more confidence in NFP. I just need a place to vent this and I would love prayers as we figure this out. We want to be good Catholics, but it feels like we’re stretched as far as we can go before we break right now.

Well, 5 children under 6 - it sounds like your NFP was practiced with the objective of getting pregnant! I don’t know what “loose” NFP means - would “careless” or “casual” be a better description? The available studies show that NFP practiced **competently **is extremely effective - moreso than by many artificial means including condoms. See the comparison table in this article:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_birth_control_methods

NFP is broadly equivalent to the row in the table “Symptoms-based fertility awareness”. But there are various “flavours” of NFP.

It would seem entirely appropriate for you to practice NFP for avoidance, until such time as you feel willing and able to have more children. It may be that that time never comes - but that is up to you and your husband to discern over time. You are never required to form a view on whether you’re “done” or not.

I’m not sure what you are looking for from your priest on this point. Certainly, there is no possibility that you will be advised “sure, you can use Condoms” by a faithful priest. But perhaps he can direct you to some helpful NFP training resources.

 

[UbiCaritas]

To the OP, as people have mentioned, I think it’s time you learned a conservative NFP method, for instance, a Phase 3 version with a couple extra days tacked on to be very sure. It will cut down substantially on your days of availability, but it will be more effective than condoms and should give you more peace of mind. (The thing to watch out for is phantom temperature rises due to illness, but with enough extra days, that should not be a problem.)

Yep! Waiting until 5+ days or so post-peak should eliminate any phantom rises, and will definitely cover any rare double-ovulation months, as double ovulation always occurs within 24 hours of each other.