Needing opinions on Vatician II heresy claims

[Phillnb25]

Hey everyone! I am a protestant who has started to learn about the cathloic faith. I was really beginning to understand cathloic faith and teaching and enjoying my time. However in my research I had found some people claiming that Vatican II is heretical and that there is nobody saved who believes and follows those teachings. Now i never grew up decerning church docterin and im.not sure what to make of it. If Vatican II is heretical wouldn’t that make 99% of the cathloic church in heresy? Anybody with thoughts on this?

 

[CelticWarlord]

Hey there, laddie, and welcome to the forum. I’m also a Protestant who is keen on Catholicism. There are those here far more qualified to answer the specifics of your inquiry but I will just say you will find a huge variety of opinions even among Catholics on this and pretty much any theological issues. Best thing is to buy yourself a Catechism of the Catholic Church and find out firsthand what the Church actually teaches on pretty much any topic. Blessings to you.

 

[1ke]

There’s nothing to make of it other than there are very deluded people out there who need our prayers.

The second Vatican council is not “heretical”

I suggest you avoid these fringe websites.

 

[ChristMyLife]

However in my research I had found some people claiming that Vatican II is heretical and that there is nobody saved who believes and follows thos

I would suggest you stay away from these groups who make such claims - many of them are full blown schismatic or sedevacantists like the SSPV. Many of the rest are SSPX attendees or sympathisers who think they know better than the Magisterium.

In your position, you’d do well to stick to trusted, orthodox Catholic Christian sources. Stick to the official Vatican website, the US Catholic Bishops website, the website we are on right now, EWTN, Relevant Radio, etc. These are the places where Catholic Truth is upheld and preached and taught.

 

[Rob2]

However in my research I had found some people claiming that Vatican II is heretical

@Phillnb25 , the Second Council of the Vatican was the Church’s 21st Ecumenical Council .

Over the years people in various ways have claimed that all 21 were heretical .

Ignore them .

 

[Phillnb25]

the Second Council of the Vatican was the Church’s 21st Ecumenical Council

@Rob2, I wasn’t aware of that! Thank You!
Is there a place where I could find the other 20 to see what was changed? How can I be sure of the infallibility of the current teachings?

 

[Phillnb25]

I would suggest you stay away from these groups who make such claims - many of them are full blown schismatic or sedevacantists like the SSPV. Many of the rest are SSPX attendees or sympathisers who think they know better than the Magisterium

Stupid question… who are the sspv and sspx?

 

[mrsdizzyd]

How can I be sure of the infallibility of the current teachings?

Certainty lies with in foundations of the church in the first century. You should start there.

I recommend By What Authority by Mark Shea.

 

[Genesis315]

Any particular point giving you trouble?

 

[ChristMyLife]

The SSPX means the “Society of St. Pius X” - they are a Priestly fraternity (meaning that technically only SSPX priests are SSPX ‘members’ - although there are many who attend Mass exclusively at SSPX ‘chapels’, and thus are de facto SSPX members). The SSPX is de jure in a state of “canonical irregularity,” but they are de facto in schism from the See of St. Peter and the Catholic Church. They are a very good group of people for those learning about the Church to steer clear of.

The SSPV is the “Society of St. Pius V” - a splinter group of Priests who broke off from the SSPX because the SSPX was not radically “traditional” enough for them. The SSPV is in open schism, and they are vocally sedevacantist as well. Avoid the SSPV like the plague - the SSPX is sober and moderate compared to the SSPV.

 

[CelticWarlord]

There’s no such thing as a stupid question, my friend. Only intolerant answers.

 

[1ke]

Is there a place where I could find the other 20 to see what was changed?

Keep in mind that councils have a mixture of disciplinary items (what today we’d call canon law) and doctoral issues (for example the Council of Nicea tackles the Arian heresy related to the Trinity) and also things of a pastoral nature (also not doctrinal).

You can find translations of texts from councils various places online. I don’t think it’s a good use of your time to try to slog through them. Especially without understanding the historical situation and what the councils were addressing. Council documents are quite long.

As to infallibility— it is a guarantee of the Holy Spirit. A charism given to protect the Body of Christ.

 

[Phillnb25]

I don’t think it’s a good use of your time to try to slog through them

Yeah I think I agree with you on that.

 

[Theo2]

I had found some people claiming that Vatican II is heretical and that there is nobody saved who believes and follows those teachings.

There are people who can’t accept change. No change in truths only customs. Jesus confront those type people who couldn’t accept Him. The Holy Spirit does not take vacations and will protect the church from serious error.

 

[Ioannes_L]

The SSPX is de jure in a state of “canonical irregularity,” but they are de facto in schism from the See of St. Peter and the Catholic Church. They are a very good group of people for those learning about the Church to steer clear of.

Here we go again…

 

[gracepoole]

Some gentle advice, OP: forget you ever heard of the SSPX and SSPV. Most Catholics don’t know a thing about them and are likely happier remaining ignorant.

What specific sites are you visiting where you’re encountering the views you describe?

 

[ChristMyLife]

Here we go again…

Yeah please leave it alone.

As soon as a thread devolves into “SSPX are schismatics/no SSPX are Warriors of the Light” back-and-forth argument, the mods step in and shut it down faster than you can say “schism!”

 

[Roseeurekacross]

This is totally wrong, I pray for the poor souls who still continue this lament about Vat.11. They have little understanding on the vast work it did.

You should read it’s documents. One big work was to stop blaming the Jews for the death of Christ and calling them treacherous in prayer.

It also stopped calling other religions heretical, for example Protestants are our seperated brethren.
It promoted dialogue within and without the church, defined what mission truly is and how we are the priesthood of the people and the people of God.

These are just a few things,

It also defined a few wonderful things about truth being found in other religions. Read nostra aetate

 

[Roseeurekacross]

Let me post a little blurb of the change in attitudes of pre and post Vat 11

Pre-Vatican II Image of Church
• The Church as teacher; possessor of truth
• Outside the Church there is no salvation
• The world as hostile and threat to Church
• Other religions are in error or simply false
• Mission of Church is the conversion to eternal salvation

Vatican II Image of Church
• The Church as pilgrim people, community of believers
• Elements of revelation and salvation outside the Church
• Mission of dialogue with other Christians and Religions
• Collaborative Church, shaping the world together with others

And for Nostra Aetate a document on other religions

The Catholic Church rejects nothing of what is true and holy in these religions. (Both Christian and non-Christian)
She has a high regard for the manner of life and conduct, the precepts and doctrines which, although differing in many ways from her own teaching, nevertheless, often reflect a ray of that truth which enlightens all men.
• The Church, therefore, urges her sons to enter with prudence and charity into discussion and collaboration with members of other religions.
• Let Christians, while witnessing to their own faith and way of life, acknowledge, preserve and encourage the spiritual and moral truths found among non-Christians, and also their social life and culture

 

[Roseeurekacross]

It also wasn’t a reform council, like the others, it was a renewal Council, St Pope John xx111 called it aggiornamento.