They can’t say they made a mistake because they don’t believe that they did. We can’t expect them to say something they do not honestly believe.
I always try to be charitable, I’m just in a different mood the past week. From my experience, no matter how much you try to please someone, you cannot please everyone.
I don’t think this is fair. If the talks break down, they will be unable to break in new bishops and eventually the SSPX will break down or die. Unless they see themselves “forced” to run a parallel church which will be an obvious schism. I don’t see that happening though, not to the entire order anyway.
Regrettably, this is the language of the “schismatic mentality” which the SSPX fosters: setting up the notion of the (actual) Catholic church as the “new religion” of a “Novus Ordo” “Conciliar Church,” while the SSPX are just the “traditional” Church.
That is why I say its a sin of pride. The higher authority, which is the Church and its earthly head the Pope, has said that they made a mistake. People (not just the SSPX) should learn how to accept authority with humility and obedience.
Fairness is not about getting what you want. Fairness is about doing what is right. By keeping themselves in the situation they are in now, its not fair to those who follow them and to their own faith. The Church is not trying to subjugate and erradiate the SSPX, its trying to reinstate them. A little cooperation can go a long way.
Then you should be happy to know that the more fringe groups are already accusing the SSPX, specifically Bishop Fellay, for “selling out” to Rome. But you’ll have to take my word for it on this. I’m not going to cite my sources this time.
Huh? More like explaining the negative attitude towards the SSPX like the OP asked.
Weasel? That’s not very charitable and a good example of why SSPX often get locked.
I’ve read this several times and still can’t figure out what in blazes you are talking about. When did I say 25 million people hate the SSPX?This is such unrealistic pie-in-the-sky illogic that one could ROFL ! Seriously, do you have any idea about what you allege here, other than it is what you want to believe?
EWTN hosted a program recently with Rev. Kevin Fete and the question came up about how many O.F. masses are said daily throughout the world. It may surprise you to know that there are 300,000. Suppose for a minute that 50 people attend the weekday masses (divide by 7 days) and add the 300 minimal amount on any given weekend. You get nearly 25 million catholics (a watered-down estimate) attending mass. Surely you are out of touch if you believe ALL of these Catholics are hating the SSPX and all the other inventions of your mind that you attribute to them.
Even if he was wrong about the figure, and for argument’s sake, there are only 10 million.Do you see how you come across to intelligent people?
Get real, Ockham.
Is the sort of language one uses when one wants to be friends? It sounds to me like someone picking a fight. I do not see how writing something like this is compatible with being loyal to a Pope who working for reconciliation.
Actually the Pope has recognized the legitimacy of their concerns and initiated talks to discuss them. It is not a simple as you seem to think it is and I see no reason to accuse anyone of pride here.
Don’t mistake that I am referring to you, I am not.
Initiating dialogue is one thing. It is an entirely different thing to automatically asume that their liturgies are licit when they are not. While their concerns may be legitimate, the SSPX means of addressing them is not.
My comments have nothing to do with the SSPX qualities and/or shortcomings. It has to do with your approach of using a red herring and mixing things to justify their existence. The SSPX did not come to be because of EMHCs or women-priests, they came to be because of their devotion to specific traditions of the Church.
It never occurred to me that it might be referring to me. It seemed directed at associates of the SSPX, with whom the Pope is seeking reconciliation. While it is true that some people do not respond to charity, that does not make it appropriate to make inflammatory statements. It looks to me like it is more important to you to indulge your wish to fight than to support the Pope’s wish for reconciliation. Maybe you need to be more concerned about your own loyalty to the Pope than the SSPX’s.
This seems a very strange response to me. I cannot think of anything that I have written that would give the impression that I automatically assume their liturgies are licit.
My apologies, I misread your statement
No I did not direct it at them. Although I will not be surprised if its appropriate to maybe some. But its more of a general statement. I have had my dealings with protestants and cultists. If they want to talk religion, its not because they want to hear what you have to say but they want you to hear what they say. Same with the issue of SSPX. Many supporters see the SSPX as some sort of Traditionalists’ hero. No matter what you say, as long as its painting a negative light on the SSPX and no matter how true, it will be rejected. Some people just can’t accept anything other than what they personally believe.
I am loyal to my Bishop, who is in communion with the Pope. That is how it is for everyone. We are not connected directly to the Pope, but only through our Bishop. We must support our Bishop and ensure continous communion with the Pope.
It was in response to this post of yours below, and in general, to others who believe MOST Catholics hate the SSPX. That concept shouold probably confined to a very limited few who post in the TC forum, if any. Since you never defined how many is “many.” It could run into millions, statistically, MOST of whom probably never heard of the SSPX.
In all the posts I’ve read by non-SSPX Catholics, I have never seen the word “hate” used in connection with them. It is offensive to be labeled the way your post reads. I kinda think the CCC calls it “rash judgment”.I never said the SSPX came into being because of EMHCs. It’s baffling you think that. My theory is the more modernist people will be more apt to believe the SSPX is a threat to the many innovations since V2. There are no red herrings, straw men, or ad hominen attacks (the usual stable of falsely accused labels).
I never said most Catholics hate the SSPX. Your argument is baseless.