Neo Catechumenal Way coming to our parish?

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I don’t know about anyone else, but having just been to the highest of the high masses (more tridentine than even whats in the book of divine worship) celebrated by his excellency Fr. Jeffrey Steenson in Baltimore, with all the Orlando gibbons, Thomas Tallis and english plainchant you could imagine, sweet incense, packed to the brim with happy families prostrating and fresh french pastries served afterwards…

The only thought on my mind is…what would Mr. Arguello have thought of it. Would he think we were crazy…or would he recognize this ‘works’ for most catholics if given the opportunity and access.

I am going to visit a Neocatumenal way parish around northern virginia as soon as I can in February, and compare the two firsthand.

Truly interesting times to live in.
 
The only thought on my mind is…what would Mr. Arguello have thought of it. Would he think we were crazy…or would he recognize this ‘works’ for most catholics if given the opportunity and access.

I am going to visit a Neocatumenal way parish around northern virginia as soon as I can in February, and compare the two firsthand.

Truly interesting times to live in.
I Cant speak for Mr Arguello but a priest from NCW in my area told me he didnt like TLM because the congregation is not actively participating in it with prayers and so on.
 
I Cant speak for Mr Arguello but a priest from NCW in my area told me he didnt like TLM because the congregation is not actively participating in it with prayers and so on.
This statement has been repeated ad nauseam to the point of being funny. The document used by most to promote their agenda of active participation is Sacrosanctum Concilium, a document of Vatican II. We must keep in mind that only the original Latin versions of documents are binding. So when we see the English translation, well, that’s nice, but it’s nothing but a mere casual reference point in reality. The term used in the Latin original is “actuosa participatio,” which translates, truth be told, not as “active participation” but “actual participation.” The former is a slogan used by tired cheerleaders who would like to make Vatican II more than it actually is. I’m glad to report that their pom-poms are finally falling apart after fifty years.
 
I Cant speak for Mr Arguello but a priest from NCW in my area told me he didnt like TLM because the congregation is not actively participating in it with prayers and so on.
Here is where my experience was revolutionary and a sign of things to come in the future…
Inbetween all the elaborate elegant “propers” music sung by a choir of high caliber there were beatiful theologically rich hymns that anyone could have - and did sing along with.

There was not a single point at which active participation was not felt.
It had it all. Much like your typical byzantine rite divine liturgy.

Theres nothing like hearing hundreds of people sing the creed to the standard 17th c. mode 6 melody (the one typically heard at the vatican masses for solemnities on EWTN) all in clearly intelligible accurate edifying english. Even little children sang the creed!

This mass even had handfuls of regular catholics there, who were new to it, doing the “hand holding” thing during the Our Father, which made me smile. I am so inspired. And best of all there’s not a thing any bishop can do to stop it. It is conceivable that many neocat masses had less active participation that this anglican use mass. This is what intrigues me. The old theories make no sense any longer.

Additionally, this was 98% the same words in the my 1962 latin mass missallette, as if the english translation was used liturgically instead of strictly latin.

There was no “work of human hands” teilhardian/pseudo-jewish ritual offertory prayer as contained in all new masses and the book of divine worship, instead for the first time since 1965-68 it was back to the:

"P. Accept, O Holy Father, Almighty and eternal God, this spotless host, which I, your unworthy servant, offer to You, my living and true God, to atone for my numberless sins, offenses and negligences; on behalf of all here present and likewise for all faithful Christians living and dead, that it may profit me and them as a means of salvation to life everlasting. " (recited silently)

This is the type of mass that will over time bring us all together and put us on the same page, to end all divise personal preferences and tastes over liturgy. All the factions coming to an end.

How fitting for the last day of the ecumenical “Octave of Prayer For Christian Unity”.

Rejoice with us and be happy ! 🙂
Blessed art thou O Lord in the firmament of heaven: and worthy above all to be praised and glorified for ever !
 
After my first post, i wasted about an hour of my life researching the neocatechuminal way on the internet. Found some very frightening stuff. If
Oh my goodness. 😦
Its quite sad that many Catholics go to Anti-Catholic websites and get brain washed about Catholicism and as such, they call us a cult, they call the Church the whore of Babylon, and other things which are obviously not true.

In the same way, I see these “websites” that call the NCW a sect or criticize them. How about instead of “researching” on the internet, you actually go directly to them and ask them about those things which you have doubts?

Im just saying, that after going with my parents in the past, for 15 years (in different countries and different parishes) to the NCW, and having met a lot of people of this movement, after having seen the fruits of this movement, and having been born a Roman Catholic (Thank God), all these comments being posted here reflect in my own opinion a lot of ignorance.

Its like arguing sola scriptura with protestants. Or debating with a protestant why the CC is the true Church of God. Where do I start explaining?

The NCW is a movement completely in unity with the Pope, it has been approved by him, and if you still call that a sect after knowing such, then why would the Pope approve? If one cannot answer this question, then maybe one shouldn’t call the NCW a sect in the first place.

If the Pope disapproves the NCW completely, it simply disappears.

The NCW has made mistakes (which have been corrected) but what matters is that they adhere to Catholic teaching completely. Its like trying to accuse the Catholic Church for the bad Popes, Inquisition, and other things which are not teaching.

I suggest the posters here at CAF, that do not know about the NCW, to go directly with them and ask them what they do and why they do it instead of searching that on different sites. Otherwise, like all Catholic movements, one is not required to join them 🙂
 
My own small personal experiences with the Neocatechumenal Way:

When the Italian missionaries first came to my American parish [NOTE: Not my current parish!], I went to one of their catechism nights just out of curiosity. The advertising flyer sounded rather pie-in-the-sky, promising you a happy feel-good cure-all type of thing if you were feeling blue about the troubles in your life. The very first night, I realized the Neocatechumenal Way was not for me, for two reasons.

A) They placed a lot of emphasis on being there for adult Catholics unfamiliar with their faith, and that just doesn’t describe me, since my family background is such that I’ve voraciously done intense Catholic spiritual reading even as a child.

B) They suggested that we keep repeating “Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me” like it was a mantra. For example, in the car all the way to work. Now I can see praying the Rosary while driving to work, but repeating a single phrase for maybe hundreds of times personally just didn’t feel right when it came to my prayer life.

There have also been two occasions where I’ve gone to the Perpetual Adoration Chapel to make a quiet visit to the Blessed Sacrament, only to find anything but the peace and quiet I’d been looking for because the Neocatechumenal Way were occupying the chapel, the tabernacle door was closed, and the closest you could come to contemplation was to offer up the noisy environment as sacrificial prayer.

The first occasion, they were offering one of their private Masses to ring in the New Year. The Mass must have started about 11:00 p.m., because when I arrived shortly before midnight was right before Communion. I was invited to join the group by sitting in their circle, and found it most embarrassing when I was offered Communion in the hand while sitting down, because I had to publicly refuse Communion, in front of everyone, at close quarters, as we were all practically sitting on top of each other. (Since I hadn’t known I’d be attending Mass, I hadn’t made an hour-long fast before Communion.)

The second occasion was a Wednesday evening, stopping by the chapel for quiet prayer after an evening class at the university had ended. This was their Liturgy of the Word where they had a theme that they all spoke on after various Bible readings and songs to the sound of rattles and guitars. Now I enjoy hearing passages read from both the Old and the New Testament. What made me wonder was how they could shut up the Blessed Sacrament behind tabernacle doors so that they could focus on describing their intimate feelings about how great (pious) they and their lives had become since joining their group. One man in particular did this, on the verge of tears. The others in the group seemed to enjoy emphasizing that they had put in time preparing a talk for the theme.

If they had read Bible passages aloud and then wanted to sing and pray aloud such prayers as the Rosary or the Divine Mercy Chaplet, it would have been an experience where we were all together as a community focusing on Christ, in which case, I would have been happy enough to have the chapel silence broken. But for people to pat themselves and the members of their clique on the back only a few feet away from the Real Presence of Our Lord in the Holy Eucharist … well, yes they had permission to be there, but couldn’t they have chosen a different location?

Meanwhile, I wasn’t the only one who had come in for a simple visit to the Blessed Sacrament and gotten something different than what I’d bargained for … a man came in a bit after me. He seemingly needed to be coaxed into coming in, sitting down, and listening to the Liturgy of the Word … possibly he’d been about to leave, discouraged that here he’d come to be in the welcoming presence of Jesus and now felt as though he might be intruding on some group’s private service. When I was taken notice of at that point and invited to sit up front with everyone, I bowed out with the very real reason of it being 9:30 p.m. and not having had dinner yet, because people kept getting up and talking, and there didn’t seem to be a very good time to leave without seeming impolite by walking out on one speaker or another giving an intimate from-the-heart witness that they had worked so hard on for their theme.

~~ the phoenix
Most of what you are writing reads like ill willed gossip. You drop in on a group where you don’t know the people, then you air on a blog that they are patting each other on the back, while the incense you offer yourself doesnt sound like any Christian who has an ounce of humility would ever say. Perhaps your ex parish could have made better arrangements as to which room these people use. But have you ever considered that these people are not as great Catholics as you seem to think yourself to be, and those meetings are helping them in their struggles?
 
Its quite sad that many Catholics go to Anti-Catholic websites and get brain washed about Catholicism and as such, they call us a cult, they call the Church the whore of Babylon, and other things which are obviously not true.

In the same way, I see these “websites” that call the NCW a sect or criticize them. How about instead of “researching” on the internet, you actually go directly to them and ask them about those things which you have doubts?
Two questions for you concerning NCW catechesis since you seem to have a working knowledge of the NCW and i do not have access to any members in my area:

1.) Is the Sacrifice of The Mass the actual Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, re-presented to God on our behalf by The Priest acting Persona Christi?
2). Did the development of The Church stop after the Pax Constantinia and only begin again after Vatican Council II?
Thanks for your answers. I look forward to clearing up the confusion, since no authoritative documents seem to be available on the actual Catechism used by NCW.
Pax
 
Two questions for you concerning NCW catechesis since you seem to have a working knowledge of the NCW and i do not have access to any members in my area:

1.) Is the Sacrifice of The Mass the actual Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, re-presented to God on our behalf by The Priest acting Persona Christi?
2). Did the development of The Church stop after the Pax Constantinia and only begin again after Vatican Council II?
Thanks for your answers. I look forward to clearing up the confusion, since no authoritative documents seem to be available on the actual Catechism used by NCW.
Pax
1- Yes. All priests have valid authority/succession and all sacraments are valid. Everything is approved by Pope. They do have the Eucharist and it is the actual Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Their liturgy is approved also. There have been a couple of corrections, yes.

There is a book called “Neocatechumenale Iter statua” which defines what the NCW is, and what it is not. What they do, and why they do it. It contains the stages of the NCW. It also contains the approval cited from the Vatican, Rome. If Catholics read this book, it would probably clear out all the confusion. Unfortunately, I have not seen its content online yet, so I cannot link you. Though, I do have an image:
serlib.com/imglibros/9788433022783.jpg

2- As of this point, I don’t really know how this relates to the NCW. Perhaps I’m not understanding the question and you may need to ask it in a different way. I know the NCW was founded around 1960, but the first communities were visible until maybe 1964-1965 which was during Vatican II.
 
1- Yes. All priests have valid authority/succession and all sacraments are valid. Everything is approved by Pope. They do have the Eucharist and it is the actual Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Their liturgy is approved also. There have been a couple of corrections, yes.

There is a book called “Neocatechumenale Iter statua” which defines what the NCW is, and what it is not. What they do, and why they do it. It contains the stages of the NCW. It also contains the approval cited from the Vatican, Rome. If Catholics read this book, it would probably clear out all the confusion. Unfortunately, I have not seen its content online yet, so I cannot link you. Though, I do have an image:
serlib.com/imglibros/9788433022783.jpg

2- As of this point, I don’t really know how this relates to the NCW. Perhaps I’m not understanding the question and you may need to ask it in a different way. I know the NCW was founded around 1960, but the first communities were visible until maybe 1964-1965 which was during Vatican II.
Thank you for your quick answer. The reason i ask these specific questions are made apparent by the objections made by Fr. Enrico Zoffoli here:christianorder.com/features/features_1995/features_apr95.html
and by H.E. Cardinal Arinze, when he headed CDW, to the movement.
 
Thank you for your quick answer. The reason i ask these specific questions are made apparent by the objections made by Fr. Enrico Zoffoli here:christianorder.com/features/features_1995/features_apr95.html
and by H.E. Cardinal Arinze, when he headed CDW, to the movement.
Oh my God!

That link is like the “whore of babylon” books SDA’s like to point out. All full of lies!

Please do not let such website make you think the NeoCats actually believe all that. They believe exactly what the church teaches, nothing less, nothing more. They are Roman Catholics just like you and I are. They believe what you and I believe. If all those claims were true, the Holy See wouldn’t have approved their communities.

Fr. Enrico Zoffli, clearly doesn’t know what hes talking about.
 
1- Yes. All priests have valid authority/succession and all sacraments are valid. Everything is approved by Pope. They do have the Eucharist and it is the actual Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Perhaps a little more to the point Chris, I am interested in the response of the NCW to these assertions:
  • The Mass is not only a “sacrifice” of praise and of thanksgiving.
  • The Mass is not a bare commemoration of the sacrifice consummated on the cross.
  • In the Mass a true and proper propitiatory sacriflce is offered to God.
  • By the words, “Do this for the commemoration of me”, Christ instituted the apostles priests and ordained that they and other priests should offer His own body and blood as propitiatory sacrifice.
Would the NCW agree with all of these assertions?
 
Thanks Bookcat for the link. I find it curious that when kiko talks of the Church, he continually refers to the early church only. Reading exerpts from an apologetic work on the NCW written by a priest of the Way, Piergiovanni Devoto, in a book entitled: “The Neocatechumenate: A Christian Initiation for Adults,” printed by the Chirico publishing house in Naples.

chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/articolo/21939?eng=y (the book cannot be found on the internet, i tried numerous searches and cannot find it)

The excerpts from kiko’s and carmen’s catechetical writings give one an idea as to where the Liturgy and Theology they use comes together with the reformation ideology. They both dispute the developments of The Church from the 400’s on. They both follow the Anathematized theory,

HTTP://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius12/P12HUMAN.HTM"

that all development within the Church throughout the centuries after the early Fathers was man-made and not inspired. They both redesign the Eucharist and Mass as a simple community action and not a Sacrifice. This ideology troubles me deeply. It is a virulent contagion that can spread quite easily within poorly catechized Catholics. Pray for more thorough catechesis of both converts and cradle Catholics so this type of error will cease.
Arch Bishop Fulton Sheen warned in the 70’s that a divisive spirit entered the Church after Vatican II. Not because of the Council, but because satan always twists movements of the Holy Spirit to cause divisions, and through divisions, destruction.
keepthefaith.org/detail.aspx?ID=23
it is well worth 1.50$ to hear this warning.
Pax
 
Thanks Bookcat for the link. I find it curious that when kiko talks of the Church, he continually refers to the early church only.
I imagine such is not the case. But it is to be noted that his NCW is inspired by the Early Centuries of the Church…hence his talking about it 🙂

Again I am not involved in the NCW I am simply following the Church documents, Pope Benedict XVI and their docs.

I leave the matter to the Holy See (see all my links above…)
 
Oh my God!

That link is like the “whore of babylon” books SDA’s like to point out. All full of lies!

Please do not let such website make you think the NeoCats actually believe all that. They believe exactly what the church teaches, nothing less, nothing more. They are Roman Catholics just like you and I are. They believe what you and I believe. If all those claims were true, the Holy See wouldn’t have approved their communities.

Fr. Enrico Zoffli, clearly doesn’t know what hes talking about.
You mean Enrico Zoffoli DID not know what he WAS talking about. He is dead already, God rest his soul. But he has some followers who inherited his dislike of the Neocatechumenal Way. They even have a church where there is a fresco of sorts of the final judgement and the likeness of Mr. Argüello and Ms. Hernandez are depicted in hell on it. When I saw that, it was the first time in my life that I saw someone pictured in hell who hasn’t even died yet. It’s a pity I can’t show you that fresco. I don’t even know the name of the church where it is. But I gather from it that the Zoffolists made it their religion to condemn the neocatechumenals. That is why reading their blogs is not very informative, even if you have a good laugh reading it.
 
Perhaps a little more to the point Chris, I am interested in the response of the NCW to these assertions:
  • The Mass is not only a “sacrifice” of praise and of thanksgiving.
  • The Mass is not a bare commemoration of the sacrifice consummated on the cross.
  • In the Mass a true and proper propitiatory sacrifice is offered to God.
  • By the words, “Do this for the commemoration of me”, Christ instituted the apostles priests and ordained that they and other priests should offer His own body and blood as propitiatory sacrifice.
Would the NCW agree with all of these assertions?
First I must say that im not in the NCW, my parents currently still are after some 23 years (even though the parish they go to is very very far), but I do know what they believe, which is exactly what Roman Catholics believe.

So to answer your question, yes they would agree.
 
You mean Enrico Zoffoli DID not know what he WAS talking about. He is dead already, God rest his soul. But he has some followers who inherited his dislike of the Neocatechumenal Way. They even have a church where there is a fresco of sorts of the final judgement and the likeness of Mr. Argüello and Ms. Hernandez are depicted in hell on it. When I saw that, it was the first time in my life that I saw someone pictured in hell who hasn’t even died yet. It’s a pity I can’t show you that fresco. I don’t even know the name of the church where it is. But I gather from it that the Zoffolists made it their religion to condemn the neocatechumenals. That is why reading their blogs is not very informative, even if you have a good laugh reading it.
Wow, this demonstrates that the source cited before, is completely unreliable. The Catholic Church herself has never depicted a particular person in hell, not even Judas. Even less, people that are still living.
I didn’t know Fr. Enrico died.
 
One conclusion I have come to is that there are very few bright intellectuals who are involved with the neocatechumenal way writing academic books based on it. I see in some of the responses here the marks of ignorance.

Now this doesn’t mean one can’t be a holy person. But it does indeed suggest the potential to be taken advantage of or deceived.** Theoretically** This is very logical that a group focused on “lapsed catholics” could have cult like tendencies, being the trusting authority for them to learn from.
Do not take me to saying that this is what actually happens, only that given the circumstances it could be conceivable that it could happen if there is not enough oversight. As we all know bishops can be very busy.

Additionally…It is odd that the one person who does have a respected academic background who writes a book about the neocatechumenal way issues warnings about problems within it and is viewed as “completely unreliable” by those who have no academic background.

Now we all know professors and universities can certainly have hold heresies. But nevertheless, usually a professor at a respected universitiy focused solely on the theology of thomas aquinas is exempt from these stereotypes. I’m not aware of many wrong ideas coming out of the Pontifical Lateran University which he was part of either, but perhaps they exist.

I smell a rat.
 
The experience of a Neocatechumenate member from July 18, 2000

This has been the most edifying statement I’ve seen yet on the subject.
  1. Often without even realizing it, the Neocatechumenate take on a language, a particular jargon that makes them standout and distinguishes them from others.
  2. Generally, the Neocatechumenate react quite violently when someone criticizes the Way. They try to avoid the subject, or as is especially the case with the catechists, they resort to dialectics (the sign of the better sophist). Once I was really struck by how a person from the Way reacted to a man who said he didn’t believe in it. At first the follower of the Way calmly gave his own personal life’s testimony; even though he was vulgar in his criticism of the pope and bishops, he didn’t get angry until the moment the man criticized the Way. Hardly loving one’s enemy in the dimension of the cross!
  3. The Neocatechumenate often feel persecuted and they demonize (as I wrote earlier) those who don’t belong even if those people should still be considered their brothers in Christ. Sects typically demonize those who don’t think like they do because they need to create an external enemy (a scapegoat) upon which they can target all their individual fears and anxieties.
To grow in the faith is to grow in love not to busy oneself for years with a lot activities, preparations, celebrations, passing through different stages or anything else. Many Neocatechumenate have the illusion that it carrying out deeds", “doing things”, and “being active” for many years converts you. People should be told, however, about a document that was published by the Holy See in 1986 by the Council for the Promotion of Christian Unity. It was titled, The Phenomena of Sects or New Religious Movements: A Pastoral Challenge." On page three, talking about the intolerance present in sects, “a similar spirit can be encountered in congregations of people who belong to churches or ecclesiastical communities.”
 
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