Neo-paganism/Wicca in Catholic settings?

  • Thread starter Thread starter TeriGator
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
T

TeriGator

Guest
Just a heads-up: this is not intended as a debate over Wicca or other New Age practices. If you wish to defend those practices, please do so in another thread. I will not engage in any such debate here.

I have been recently reading Donna Steichen’s book, Ungodly Rage. Now I’m wondering if the use of Catholic facilities and funding for Wiccan, New Age, and other neo-pagan, goddess-worshipping activities is still as widespread as it was 14 years ago. It’s my hope that church officials would have gotten wise and stopped associating themselves with this type of thing, but to be honest I have no clue.

Despite attending a number of different parishes over the years, I hadn’t ever encountered this type of thing in person. I’ve read about it and seen pictures (such as the four nun-witches dancing around the cauldron on the altar :bigyikes: ), and I’ve known nuns and lay-people who prescribed to at least some of the ideas that came out of this movement. You would think brides of Christ would know better. :tsktsk:

If anyone could fill me in on what’s been going on, I’d appreciate it.
 
40.png
TeriGator:
Just a heads-up: this is not intended as a debate over Wicca or other New Age practices. If you wish to defend those practices, please do so in another thread. I will not engage in any such debate here.

I have been recently reading Donna Steichen’s book, Ungodly Rage. Now I’m wondering if the use of Catholic facilities and funding for Wiccan, New Age, and other neo-pagan, goddess-worshipping activities is still as widespread as it was 14 years ago. It’s my hope that church officials would have gotten wise and stopped associating themselves with this type of thing, but to be honest I have no clue.

Despite attending a number of different parishes over the years, I hadn’t ever encountered this type of thing in person. I’ve read about it and seen pictures (such as the four nun-witches dancing around the cauldron on the altar :bigyikes: ), and I’ve known nuns and lay-people who prescribed to at least some of the ideas that came out of this movement. You would think brides of Christ would know better. :tsktsk:

If anyone could fill me in on what’s been going on, I’d appreciate it.
Click to expand...
I really hate to say this but I suspected this was going on at the Convent of the Sisters of St. Joseph in Rocky River, OH.

Could you expound on the book?
 
I can give a quick overview of what I’ve read so far. This is my week off between clinical rotations (I’m a pharmacy student), and with 4 kids I don’t get a lot of time to read so I’m pretty slow.

Steichen writes about the involvement of groups, such as Chicago Call to Action, and individuals, like Matthew Fox and Starhawk, with the encouragement of New Age beliefs and practices through “Catholic” conferences. I’m sure you’ve heard of the Women-Church movement, which seems to have spread at least partly through these conferences. Goddess-worship is very common in these events, and use of Wiccan or other pagan imagery as well.

There are a lot of individuals and groups that were named in the book, but I can’t remember them offhand and have misplaced the book this afternoon.

So far, what I’ve read seems to indicate that the movement was/is particularly common in the midwest, and a number of convents seemed to be not only buying into those ideas but actively promoting them. It’s very disturbing, to my mind.
 
40.png
TeriGator:
I can give a quick overview of what I’ve read so far. This is my week off between clinical rotations (I’m a pharmacy student), and with 4 kids I don’t get a lot of time to read so I’m pretty slow.

Steichen writes about the involvement of groups, such as Chicago Call to Action, and individuals, like Matthew Fox and Starhawk, with the encouragement of New Age beliefs and practices through “Catholic” conferences. I’m sure you’ve heard of the Women-Church movement, which seems to have spread at least partly through these conferences. Goddess-worship is very common in these events, and use of Wiccan or other pagan imagery as well.

There are a lot of individuals and groups that were named in the book, but I can’t remember them offhand and have misplaced the book this afternoon.

So far, what I’ve read seems to indicate that the movement was/is particularly common in the midwest, and a number of convents seemed to be not only buying into those ideas but actively promoting them. It’s very disturbing, to my mind.
Click to expand...
Wow!
 
I found my book! Here are a few of the individuals and groups associated with the introduction and promulgation of goddess-worship, wiccan practice, and neo-paganism at conferences/presentations/retreats either held at or sponsored by various Catholic schools, parishes, convents, etc.

If anyone has any more info on whether these groups/people or any others are still active, I’d appreciate the info. I’m very interested in researching this.

People:
Joan Chittister
Madonna Kolbenschlag
Rosemary Ruether
Mary Hunt
Tesse Donnelly
Lillian Lewis
Cathaleen Rich
Joan Keller-Marisch
Groups:
Limina
Women-Church
Chicago Call to Action
Catholics for a Free Choice
WATER
Women’s Ordination Conference
National Assembly of Religious Women
Quixote Center
Wheaton Franciscans
Racine Dominicans
St. Louis Network of Creation-Centered Catholic Communities (CCCC)
Some locations of these activities:
St. Joseph’s Retreat Center in Des Plaines
Villa Maria Community Center at the motherhouse of the Sisters of the Humility of Mary
St. Paul’s Retreat House in Pittsburgh
St. Vincent Archabbey in Labrobe
Fontbonne College
Nerinx Hall (Catholic girl’s school)
St. Louis University
DePaul University
 
Catholics for a Free Choice, at least, is (from what I understand) one woman named Frances Kissling, a fax machine, a good nose for publicity, and a lot of money from the abortion industry. Not much of an organization, but a serious thorn in the side of the faithful.
  • Liberian
 
40.png
TeriGator:
I found my book! Here are a few of the individuals and groups associated with the introduction and promulgation of goddess-worship, wiccan practice, and neo-paganism at conferences/presentations/retreats either held at or sponsored by various Catholic schools, parishes, convents, etc.

If anyone has any more info on whether these groups/people or any others are still active, I’d appreciate the info. I’m very interested in researching this.

People:Joan Chittister

Madonna Kolbenschlag
Rosemary Ruether
Mary Hunt
Tesse Donnelly
Lillian Lewis
Cathaleen Rich
Joan Keller-Marisch

Groups:Limina

Women-Church
Chicago Call to Action
Catholics for a Free Choice
WATER
Women’s Ordination Conference
National Assembly of Religious Women
Quixote Center
Wheaton Franciscans
Racine Dominicans
St. Louis Network of Creation-Centered Catholic Communities (CCCC)

Some locations of these activities:St. Joseph’s Retreat Center in Des Plaines

Villa Maria Community Center at the motherhouse of the Sisters of the Humility of Mary
St. Paul’s Retreat House in Pittsburgh
St. Vincent Archabbey in Labrobe
Fontbonne College
Nerinx Hall (Catholic girl’s school)
St. Louis University
DePaul University
Click to expand...
I would be very interested in learning more about this. Fontbonne College (now University) is my alma mater. Now that I’m older and have been out of college for several years, I am slowly realizing that the college isn’t as Catholic as I thought it was. It’s very disheartening. 😦
 
netmil(name removed by moderator):
I really hate to say this but I suspected this was going on at the Convent of the Sisters of St. Joseph in Rocky River, OH.

Could you expound on the book?
Click to expand...
definitely going on at Ursuline College in Pepper Pike, witnessed it myself on several occasions 6-10 years ago. whether this was with the knowledge and support of the administration is more than I know, but there were some events hosted on campus that definitely espoused and promoted that thinking. the most famous made the front page of the PD, a ceremony invoking the Goddess Sophia, with nuns participating. ex-wife of a former Ohio governor, from a prominent Catholic family participated in a so-called women’s ordination ceremony a couple of years ago, with support and involvement of several nuns.
 
40.png
puzzleannie:
definitely going on at Ursuline College in Pepper Pike, witnessed it myself on several occasions 6-10 years ago. whether this was with the knowledge and support of the administration is more than I know, but there were some events hosted on campus that definitely espoused and promoted that thinking. the most famous made the front page of the PD, a ceremony invoking the Goddess Sophia, with nuns participating. ex-wife of a former Ohio governor, from a prominent Catholic family participated in a so-called women’s ordination ceremony a couple of years ago, with support and involvement of several nuns.
Click to expand...
Really!!!
See! On the westside it was the St. Joseph sisters leading the way. They even have the Labryinth in their chapel, so I have heard.
Cleveland is bad. How soon before Pilla retires?
I’m going to ask a friend from another website to pop in. He really watches the Cleveland Diocese.
 
netmil(name removed by moderator):
Really!!!
See! On the westside it was the St. Joseph sisters leading the way. They even have the Labryinth in their chapel, so I have heard.
Cleveland is bad. How soon before Pilla retires?
I’m going to ask a friend from another website to pop in. He really watches the Cleveland Diocese.
Click to expand...
There is nothing inherently anti-Christian about labryninths…
 
netmil(name removed by moderator):
Really!!!
See! On the westside it was the St. Joseph sisters leading the way. They even have the Labryinth in their chapel, so I have heard.
Cleveland is bad. How soon before Pilla retires?
I’m going to ask a friend from another website to pop in. He really watches the Cleveland Diocese.
Click to expand...
please do not blame the Bishop for everything that goes on in the diocese, that is too big a leap. when an entire religious order decides to go over to the dark side there is not a lot the bishop can do about it, since we have banished burning at the stake. for the record, I number several Ursuline sisters among my friends and know them to be orthodox faithful Catholics, so don’t blame all for the actions of a few. I also know from personal experience that Bishop Pilla has vigorously preached and defended Catholic teaching publicly in many difficult controversial circumstances.
 
40.png
puzzleannie:
please do not blame the Bishop for everything that goes on in the diocese, that is too big a leap. when an entire religious order decides to go over to the dark side there is not a lot the bishop can do about it, since we have banished burning at the stake. for the record, I number several Ursuline sisters among my friends and know them to be orthodox faithful Catholics, so don’t blame all for the actions of a few. I also know from personal experience that Bishop Pilla has vigorously preached and defended Catholic teaching publicly in many difficult controversial circumstances.
Click to expand...
If Bishop Pilla would throw Future Church off the St. Michael’s grounds, I would think more highly of him.
Pilla may be the most spiritual man on Earth but he is a very poor disciplinarian.
There’s tons wrong in Cleveland. I would really like to move back home, but the idea that I can’t find a decent church, keeps me in Detroit.
 
Any time I see or hear the names Fox, Kissling, Chittister, or McBrien, I know better than to expect anything remotely orthodox. But the huge list of names and organizations that the book gives just amazes me. Especially the number of active nuns, former nuns, and convents that are involved.

I think that the scariest part of what I’ve read so far is that there are priests and bishops who were buying into the radical feminist line. Either they truly did not understand what the women were saying, and doing, at these conferences, or they were in agreement with them. Most of the speakers were women, of course, but there was occasionally a token male or two. And the interviews that they gave afterward sure sound like they are part and party to the whole “feminist revolution” that the women were preaching. In addition, parish and diocesan funds were often used for hosting talks or conferences, or for sending “delegates” to them.

I certainly hope that things have changed since 91 - I would hate to think that these goddess rituals and anti-Catholic rhetoric were not still being subsidized by Church funds or resources in any way.
 
Teri I have that book too:eek: It is awful!!! I could only read it for so long without developing a headache:mad: That has got to cease:tsktsk: Mother Angelica mentioned it in one of her shows before her strokes and she too was very upset and pulled no punches about it either:nope:
 
40.png
Lisa4Catholics:
Teri I have that book too:eek: It is awful!!! I could only read it for so long without developing a headache:mad: That has got to cease:tsktsk: Mother Angelica mentioned it in one of her shows before her strokes and she too was very upset and pulled no punches about it either:nope:
Click to expand...
I agree, this is a tough read! I’ve been trying to get through it in bits and pieces, but I keep getting so annoyed that I have to put it down. And now I’ve been reading a few threads in various forums that confirm my fears, this nonsense is continuing. I don’t know if it has diminished or not, but the usual suspects have continued to stir the pot. Or the cauldron, as it were. :bigyikes:

I’m not surprised dear Mother A went off on this - she never sugarcoats the truth. I miss seeing her on EWTN, and regret the fact that I didn’t even have EWTN for a number of years after we moved here. It seems to me that she had Donna Steichen as a guest once, but I’m not 100% certain of that. At any rate, I know that I didn’t see the show.

God bless Mother A, and God help the Church in America.
 
I just left the new-age/pagan movement - I can’t even dignify it with the word “religion” without choking on it, any more. If I see anything like this in any church I go to, I’m outta there, ZOOM!

The fullness of Truth - that is what I have found in Catholic teachings. I am not about to subject myself to the same errors against which I have been bumping my nose all these years!

It’s been a long, hard struggle and a lonnnnng, dark night of the soul - I’m not going to abandon this new faith now that I know that I’m finally on the right track toward LIGHT!

I’m running up one heck of a book bill, but this book won’t be on my wish list.

I think that anything with Starhawk in it is a big fat FAKE. (And I had **all **her books - and so many others - perhaps a hundred or more) I’ve read all of the new age and neo-pagan and occult writers, from Aleister Crowley (totally creepy) to the fluffiest of fluff-bunny Wiccan writers. (totally inane and downright silly) I think that they’re all fakes.

It’s a money racket. It’s aimed mostly at young people, but don’t kid yourself - it’s not because they think they’re actually passing along “the old ways” and such but because young people have fat wallets and a certain sub-set will buy anything that seems to give them power.

We have the body, blood, soul and divinity of our Savior before us - why anyone would want to adulterate this perfect beauty and fullness with the nonsensical and even harmful practices of the new-age movement just escapes me! :confused:

Catholics who embrace this kind of crapola don’t understand the perfection that they already HAVE.

I’m in near mortal anguish over the long time it will be before I will be in full communion with the Church. I long for the sacrament of Reconciliation and for the Eucharist. Here are people who have everything and they are throwing it away with both hands… for nothing. (literally
n-o-t-h-i-n-g)

God help us! This is just so sad! :nope:
Elizabeth
 
Firstly -

What are labrynths? I remember the Disney Movie staring David Bowie but I have no idea what you mean by the use of one in a church.

Also, I am in Australia and we too have had many problems with this neo-pagan nonsense. Particularly there is a “Sophia Centre” built next to a Domincan school. The building is supposed to resemble the shape of a uterus when viewed from the sky.

endeavourforum.org.au/july8.html

Here is a review of a book written by an Australian author called “Woman, why are you weeping?”. It describes many of these issues in Australia.
 
A couple of years ago my mom and I stopped at a parish in our diocese to check out some healing thingee that was going on. The main presenters or one of them used to be rather well known. I can’t think of their names right now but they are brothers, one or both used to be priests and I think one is married now…ring any bells?

Anyhoo…We weren’t there for the beginning but we did get see the group pray to the four directions. Oy. Everyone was invited to stand (I didn’t cuz I don’t like to be told what to do by people I don’t know or trust) so I sat and watched. I hate to admit that my mom participated (I’m not sure why, I’ll have to ask) but everyone just went along with it, like, “isn’t this nice”. At one point, they were all praying in my general direction, like a bunch of puppets. They had no idea what they were doing or why (I would bet that few of them had prayed to the four directions before). I’m thinking “These Catholic folk are calling the corners and they don’t even know it.”

Even though I think it’s silly I do get why some people get into it. This article by Sandra Miesel from Crisis magazine discusses how witches (specifically, but could be applied to most pagans) have kept their liturgies rich with symbolism and the “smells and bells”. In others words in a stupid attempt to make Catholicism “relevant” and Catholic liturgy inoffensive to others it’s been made boring and sterile.

And
Why should Catholics care about a religious system so alien to ours? The simple answer is: It’s there, it’s growing, and some ex-Catholics find it attractive. (A more flippant answer: Look at what we have in common; after all, we’ve both had problems with Protestant Fundamentalists and been maligned in Jack Chick comics.) That last part made me laugh because when I used to talk to pagans of differents stripes on AOL we would bond over that. Fundies thought the whole lot of us were going to hell.
Click to expand...
ETA Sandra also instructs:
Wiccans aren’t Satanists. (Please say this three times before reading further.)
Click to expand...
which I quite appreciated. Over and over I’ve heard Christians say something like “witches are satanists” or what ever and the Christians lose credibility every time. How much credebility do you give to someone who insists that Catholics worship Mary.
 
40.png
TeriGator:
I found my book! Here are a few of the individuals and groups associated with the introduction and promulgation of goddess-worship, wiccan practice, and neo-paganism at conferences/presentations/retreats either held at or sponsored by various Catholic schools, parishes, convents, etc.

If anyone has any more info on whether these groups/people or any others are still active, I’d appreciate the info. I’m very interested in researching this.

People:Joan Chittister

Madonna Kolbenschlag
Rosemary Ruether
Mary Hunt
Tesse Donnelly
Lillian Lewis
Cathaleen Rich
Joan Keller-Marisch

Groups:Limina

Women-Church
Chicago Call to Action
Catholics for a Free Choice
WATER
Women’s Ordination Conference
National Assembly of Religious Women
Quixote Center
Wheaton Franciscans
Racine Dominicans
St. Louis Network of Creation-Centered Catholic Communities (CCCC)

Some locations of these activities:St. Joseph’s Retreat Center in Des Plaines

Villa Maria Community Center at the motherhouse of the Sisters of the Humility of Mary
St. Paul’s Retreat House in Pittsburgh
St. Vincent Archabbey in Labrobe
Fontbonne College
Nerinx Hall (Catholic girl’s school)
St. Louis University
DePaul University
Click to expand...
Can I ask specifically what this book charges these groups/people with? They are all generic charges, what do you mean by them? I, too, went to Fontbonne, but I’ve never heard of most of the rest of these groups/people, so I have no idea what they are like.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top