Neocatechumenal Way Liturgy

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Just one note, which makes me question the Catholic knowledge of the author of the article from the National Catholic Reporter.
As anyone who has attended a Neocatechumenate Mass knows, there are several idiosyncratic features. Typically Mass is celebrated Saturday night, not Sunday,
Saturday night is Sunday according to the liturgical cycle.
 
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ByzCath:
Saturday night is Sunday according to the liturgical cycle.
Unfortunately Mr. ByzCath,
The real reason the Neocatechumenals have their Eucharist on Saturday is the Following:

www.beliefnet.com/boards/message_list.asp?boardID=5601&discussionID=352513

Jewish Roots of Catholic Faith

Carmelite218
5/12/2004

Hello, All!

Do allow me to add my (name removed by moderator)ut as pertains to an earlier thread entiteld “Jewish Tradition Lost”. I want to clarify that Christians NEVER "sought to indicate their separate identity: as someone on that thread claimed.
All of the apostles were Jews as was St. Paul(see Acts 23.6). In it’s earliest days - right from Pentecost, Christianity was just another sect of Judaism. Christians continued to worship at the Temple on the Jewish sabbath and to do all things Jewish (except mandate circumcision). In addition, they met in house/churches to “break bread”.

However, the Jewish leaders considered Jesus to be a blasphemer as he equaled himself with God and the Christian sect worshipped him as a God which, to the Jews, was a heresy.
Therefore, in the year 90AD, the Christians were excommunicated from Judaism and Christianity then became illegal until the conversion of the Roman emporer Constantine around 313 and issued the Edict of Milan which made Christianity legal. During this time --90-313, the Christians took with them what they knew: Jewish prayer and liturgy. They did not “throw out the Jewish stuff”. Time, language and distance brought about many changes as did the promptings of the Holy Spirit(such as when He allowed His spirit to come upon the gentiles as well as the Jews). By the way, the Jews were right about Jesus equating himself with God – but Jesus was right as well! I wholeheartedly embrace the Jewish roots of my Catholic faith. The Jews are still God’s chosen people as St. Paul tells us in his letter to the Romans when he writes,"…theirs IS the heritage…"(sorry, I forgot chapter and verse!)For centuries a typo in Scripture had changed it to"…theirs WAS the heritage…"(I believe it was in the Jerusalem Bible)…a very tragic error. Thank God it has now been corrected for the heritage IS still that of the Jews.
Thanks everyone. This was so important I had to post it as a separate thread.

Peace
The Carmelite

I always ask our Lord and Lady in heaven, and they provide.
 
From what I’ve seen here it looks like they want to create an entire new fundamental primitive church within the framework of the Catholic Church, and bring in all other Christian groups. I guess that is why the Vatican is trying to reign them in so to speak.
 
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ByzCath:
Just one note, which makes me question the Catholic knowledge of the author of the article from the National Catholic Reporter.

Saturday night is Sunday according to the liturgical cycle.
Hi there David…I certainly understand that our Sunday commences Saturday evening. Here in South Australia anyway we have what is known as a Vigil Mass on Saturday evening and if one attends this Mass, one’s Sunday duty to attend Mass is met…i.e. there is no necessity to attend Mass Sunday as well since Sunday commences Saturday evening in our liturgical calendar.
Regards - Barb

Wow David…just caught up with your signature “I am accepted!”…accepted to become a Carmelite Priest…congratulations with much joy!!! I have special ties to Carmel here in South Aust. and joyous ties! Thank you Lord for the Grace of a Carmelite Vocation to David - be with him as he journeys Lord to fulfill Your Will for him.

Wow! David…a Carmelite Priest…now that IS SOMETHING!
 
It is a source of deep regret to me that I simply haven’t the time to regularly engage in discussion and debate on these forums, however for my lazy contribution; in a spirit of service to you my brethren on these boards may I recommend that if you are interested in this matter of the letter form Cardinal Arinze, you read this blog entry.

It is a reaction to an article in a “Catholic” paper in England.

carpendi.blogspot.com/2006/0…lic-herald.html
 
shayward:
It is a reaction to an article in a “Catholic” paper in England.

carpendi.blogspot.com/2006/0…lic-herald.html
Hello shayward,
I was wondering when you whould show up.

As to the Neo-Cat blog you posted, I must say, one of the first things I noticed about the Neocatechumenals is they are very, very good at language manipulation. Language is twisted in such a “way” to mean something quite different from the original.
Our Lord and the Church warned us about this----the “wolfs in sheeps clothing”.

Mr. Jimmy Akin addressed this same thing with Mr. Gennarini, the Neocatechumenal responsible to the U.S.

I think Mr. Akins response fits quite well in answer to your blog.

www.jimmyakin.org/liturgy/

Since you brought this thread back up, here is what another person in the “WAY” has to say:

Color emp. mine.

popebenedict16.blogspot.com/2005/12/liturgy-benedict-xvi-brings.html

heathcliff huxtable said…
i belong to the “way” and have experience with the liturgy, first off, I was told during the catechesis that the sacraficial aspect of the mass was a result of pagan inculturization shortly after constantine’s reign when the eucharist went from the catecombs and homes into basilicas. they said that the original primitive understanding of the eucharist was a celebration of the passover of Christ and was strictly a sacred banquet and not a sacrifice to appease God who didn’t need it.

at the end of the way’s mass, we would hold hands and dance around the table and sing some jewish song. i also remember people becoming very upset when we were told we had to recive the bread on our hands sitting down.COLOR=Red] one lady started to cry and the priest told her it was the devil doing it.

they also do not let outsiders into their liturgical celebrations. it is very secretive as well and i have some serious reservations about the group. they were started in the 60’s by a kiko who was an artist and a lady named carmen who was supposidely an ex-nun. the priest was a 60’s liturgist who was more about the “spirit” of vaticanll and not the documents themselves.

i think you can see the dubious origin of the way’s liturgy but aside from all of the errors, they have brought many people closer to Christ and doctrinally are pretty orthodox.

Here I must note that after further inquiry the priest eventually admitted the Mass was a sacrifice.

Although the priest initially saying our Most Holy Sacrifice is a pagan inculturization, I would not consider this doctrinally orthodox.
 
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Walking_Home:
they also do not let outsiders into their liturgical celebrations.
Yes they do, as I described in an earlier post to this thread.

~~ the phoenix
 
the phoenix:
Yes they do, as I described in an earlier post to this thread.

~~ the phoenix
Please consider this:

An individual church can have anywhere from 1 to ? Neocatechumenal communities attached to it. Each community represents a particular stage in Neocatechumenal development.

Come Saturday, each community has their own mass in different places. While you walked into one, there are many other Neo-cat masses occuring that regular people do not know off.
 
My former parish was something of an anomaly, I guess.

Perhaps because I was an active member of the Christ Renews His Parish renewal team, I was actually told where the Neocatechumenal Way Mass was held on Saturday evenings and invited to attend, on at least one or two occasions.

There were a couple of reasons why I declined joining the Neocatechumenal Way:
  1. The group stated that they were basically for Catholics who had grown up without much instruction in the Faith. That didn’t describe me, because my mother was an orthodox CCD teacher who also wrote articles for the Homiletic and Pastoral Review … and when she saw that my Catholic school’s religion textbook was watering down the Faith, she pulled me out of Catholic school, sent me to public school for reading, writing, and 'rithmetic, and diligently homeschooled me herself in the Catholic faith.
  2. I overheard members of the Renewal Team who were also Neocatechumenal Way members stating that a member was denied permission to miss a weekend retreat when that member had a conflict due to an urgent family emergency. The member in question was faced with the choice of either turning their back on family to attend the Neocatechumenal Way retreat or else be penalized by losing all of the standing that they had earned in the Neocatechumenal Way up to that point … former perfect attendance counted for nothing. Well, that raised the red flag for me … I didn’t want to join what sounded like an overly controlling cult.
~~ the phoenix
 
Thank you to all who have Posted into this Thread…I am now somewhat more educated on the subject of NeoCatechumat-ism.

I am sure, quite sure, that eventually Rome shall discern the truth of matters and make a proclomation on the subject as a whole … Rome moves slowly but very thoroughly which is comforting - tho at times The Church has amended an existing decision on some matters. This too is comforting since it indicates a relative willingness to admit a mistake.

Barb, Sth. Aust.
 
this letter concerning the Way. i dont know if its true but actually the way has been approved by the pope. its literguy and everything. the pope holds the Ways mass in high regard.

some have been asking why they get to have the mass their way. the answer is they dont. every part of the mass had to be approved first before celebrated. and it was. a few bishops who had concerns about the mass addressed their issues to the Holy Father. The Pope to to help these bishops accept the way, went with Kiko’s idea to atand when the Eucharist is brought to them. this was the only thing changed.

the way is not a fanatical group or cult. if it was the pope would not hold it in such high regard. people make these assumotions because of what they have read on the internet. the internet is one of the worst places to research about the way because of how easy it is to not know if what you are getting on is the truth.
 
this letter concerning the Way. i dont know if its true but actually the way has been approved by the pope. its literguy and everything. the pope holds the Ways mass in high regard.

some have been asking why they get to have the mass their way. the answer is they dont. every part of the mass had to be approved first before celebrated. and it was. a few bishops who had concerns about the mass addressed their issues to the Holy Father. The Pope to to help these bishops accept the way, went with Kiko’s idea to atand when the Eucharist is brought to them. this was the only thing changed.

the way is not a fanatical group or cult. if it was the pope would not hold it in such high regard. people make these assumotions because of what they have read on the internet. the internet is one of the worst places to research about the way because of how easy it is to not know if what you are getting on is the truth.
Unfortunately, I resepctfully would have to disagree with you. The Holy Father has had some very strong concerns regarding the Neocatechumenal Way’s method of celebrating the Mass, not with the group itself.

Furthermore, contrary to what Kiko Arguello noted, no special permission was granted to the Movement to celebrate the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass in that manner.

My rector used to have to celebrate this particular liturgy for the Movement. He believed that it was contrary to the liturgical norms of the Church. The Church considers the Mass her greatest treasure and she has to protect it. The Movement’s version of the Mass (which was supposed to stop as of last December 2007) goes against the liturgical norms and guidelines of the Church.

I have personally seen this and it did not resemble neither the Ordinary Form of the Mass nor the Extraordinary Form of the Mass. In fact, the look on my rector’s face as he had to preside over told the story. Furthermore, the group did not want to attend the parish’s Sunday liturgy, only to have their own Mass.

This is how Sander Magister, of the reputable and fairly orthodox online magazine Chiesa, reported it in December 2005:
Until recently, the founders and directors of the Way had shielded these practices by claiming they had received verbal authorization from John Paul II. But with Benedict XVI, playtime is over.
And it’s coming to an end for the liturgical abuses practiced throughout the Church.
Inasmuch as the letter has been quoted on many occasions throughout this thread, I will post some of it for the sake of explanation:
In the celebration of the Holy Mass, the Neocatechumenal Way shall accept and follow the liturgical books approved by the Church, without omitting or adding anything. Furthermore, in regard to some elements the guidelines and clarifications are emphasized as follows:
  1. Sunday is the “Dies Domini” as the Servant of God Pope John Paul II wished to illustrate in the Apostolic Letter on the Lord’s Day. Therefore the Neocatechumenal Way must enter into dialogue with the diocesan bishop in order to make it clear that the community of the Neocatechumenal Way is incorporated into the parish even in the context of the liturgical celebrations. At least one Sunday per month, the communities of the Neocatechumenal Way must participate in the Holy Mass of the parish community.
  1. The homily, because of its nature and importance, is reserved to the priest or deacon (cf. Codex Iuris Canonici, can. 767 § 1).
  1. On the exchange of peace, permission is granted to the Neocatechumenal Way to continue using the indult already granted, pending further instructions.
  1. On the manner of receiving Holy Communion, a period of transition (not exceeding two years) is granted to the Neocatechumenal Way to pass from the widespread manner of receiving Holy Communion in its communities (seated, with a cloth-covered table placed at the center of the church instead of the dedicated altar in the sanctuary) to the normal way in which the entire Church receives Holy Communion. This means that the Neocatechumenal Way must begin to adopt the manner of distributing the Body and Blood of Christ that is provided in the liturgical books.
If you note, the only thing that they were given a two-year transition was the manner in which Holy Communion was received. Everything else is supposed to have changed as soon as possible.

According to later reports from Chiesa, the message, it seems, hadn’t been filtered down the pipes because a year later, things were still going on as usual. And, it seems that a month after the two-year transition came to an end (January 2008), the practices were still going strong.

In fact, a diocesan prelate asked me for a copy of the letter from the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments because the Neocatechumenal members were still alleging that they would continue the status quo. He asked me for the document a couple of weeks ago. The new administrator of the Cathedral also wants to see the document as well because the Neocatechumal members were still pressing for this particular liturgy. In fact, they told him that their Mass had been approved, which runs contrary to what the document that I quoted clearly states.

Now, they also mentioned that the Holy Father was going to adapt the Sign of Peace to their method. While there is truth to that, it is not the complete picture as the idea for that does not come from the Way, but, from the Ambrosian Rite celebrated in Milan, which has a centuries-old tradition behind it. Thus, the Way has nothing to do with this proposal; it comes from the Ambrosian Rite.

We can enjoy movements and support their work; however, when they begin to employ practices contrary to what the Church permits and when they are making unauthorized changes to the Mass, then, we have to step back and obey the Holy See.
 
Unfortunately, I resepctfully would have to disagree with you. The Holy Father has had some very strong concerns regarding the Neocatechumenal Way’s method of celebrating the Mass, not with the group itself.
Furthermore, contrary to what Kiko Arguello noted, no special permission was granted to the Movement to celebrate the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass in that manner.
My rector used to have to celebrate this particular liturgy for the Movement. He believed that it was contrary to the liturgical norms of the Church. The Church considers the Mass her greatest treasure and she has to protect it. The Movement’s version of the Mass (which was supposed to stop as of last December 2007) goes against the liturgical norms and guidelines of the Church."
the pope has just signed the ways statutes if he is so greatly against it then he should not of sighned it. if you go to the Way’s internet site it has links were you can read about the statutes.
The Way has never been told to stop its mass, ever. I dont understand were these things come from.
 
the pope has just signed the ways statutes if he is so greatly against it then he should not of sighned it. if you go to the Way’s internet site it has links were you can read about the statutes.
The Way has never been told to stop its mass, ever. I dont understand were these things come from.
The Holy Father approved the statutes, but, with a very big string attached, mainly that they stop the liturgical abuses within their celebrations of the Mass. He made it clear to them that they needed to take care of this situation before anything could be approved, hence the two year “grace period.”

The letter that has been quoted comes directly from the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacrament. It is legitimate and it was written by the Congregation at the expressed wishes of the Holy Father.

Please don’t misinterpret this commentary; however, organizations are not likely to post anything negative about themselves on their own websites. This is not to insult the group, but, any organization will present themselves in the best possible light in their websites.

An article written in June by Sandro Magister of Chiesa, explains this situation:
On December 1, 2005, Cardinal Francis Arinze, prefect of the congregation for divine worship, sent them a letter, in the name of the pope, to call them back to faithful observance of the liturgical regulations. And the following January 12, Benedict XVI in person urged them to obey. But in practice, this twofold reminder fell on deaf ears almost everywhere.
On February 22, 2007, in an audience with the clergy of Rome, Benedict XVI made it clear that the new statutes would not be approved if they did not follow these instructions.
And in the end, the pressure worked. The new statutes approved last May 11 require the Neocatechumenals to celebrate the Mass following the general liturgical regulations of the Roman rite. They must receive communion standing. The homily can no longer be replaced with a variety of comments. Their Masses on Saturday evening will be “part of the Sunday liturgical service of the parish,” and will be “open to other members of the faithful as well.”
The only concessions: they can receive communion “while remaining in their places,” and they can exchange the sign of peace before the offertory instead of before communion. But it must be noted that the latter arrangement is already used in the Ambrosian rite in the archdiocese of Milan. And in the near future, it could also be introduced into the Roman rite, according to what Benedict XVI himself foreshadowed in the post-synodal exhortation on the Eucharist, “Sacramentum Caritatis.”
According to the new statutes, all of the Neocatechumenal communities in the world must immediately adhere to the new rules in celebrating the Mass.
Here is the link to the entire article:

chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/articolo/205382?eng=y

I would encourage you to read the entire article. The news may not be what one would want to hear, but Chiesa is a very reliable source.

Rosetta, I am a Cursillista. Even though I agree with the principles of the group, I do not agree with how my local organization has been handling the Mass and have let them know. The Mass is non-negotiable. No one, no group, no priest, no layman, has the authority to amend the Mass to their wishes. You cannot do that. With the Neocatechumenal Movement, Pope Benedict has made that perfectly clear. Unfortunately, there are some local groups that still insist on having the Mass their way, and this is going against what the Holy See has decreed.
 
The Holy Father approved the statutes, but, with a very big string attached, mainly that they stop the liturgical abuses within their celebrations of the Mass. He made it clear to them that they needed to take care of this situation before anything could be approved, hence the two year “grace period.”
This is how it is. Many of thesee letters come from bishops or cardinals, the Way is told to listen to these men, but in the end the pope has the final say.

When the Pope sighned their statutes the only thing he changed was this. Instead of sitting when they recieve Eucharist, because so many bishops had objected to that, he followed what Kiko suggested and had everyone stand. They remain at their seats but stand, this is symbolic to show that they stand when Jesus comes to them. The Pope very much liked this idea. The reason the Priest comes to the congregation is because he is the servant of the people. The Holy Father greatly liked how this was shown in the mass as well. the 2 year grace period was not a grace period it was to find out how the parishes would accept the way and to see wht the arguments were against it so that they could e mended. But as i said before the only thing Changed was the standing, and this was the idea of Kiko that the Pope greatly liked.

Never have they been told to “reign in their wild ways” by the Pope. Pope John Paul 2 on many occasoins expressed how much he loved the Way. Pope Benedict 16 also expressed how much he loved the Way. He meets With Kiko and Carmen often, at World Youth Day he did this also.

There have been people who do not understand the way and for that reason they are greatly offended when they come to the mass or liturgy. If you attend a catacisis perhaps you will better understand them. But as they say it is not for everyone.
 
This is how it is. Many of thesee letters come from bishops or cardinals, the Way is told to listen to these men, but in the end the pope has the final say.

When the Pope sighned their statutes the only thing he changed was this. Instead of sitting when they recieve Eucharist, because so many bishops had objected to that, he followed what Kiko suggested and had everyone stand. They remain at their seats but stand, this is symbolic to show that they stand when Jesus comes to them. The Pope very much liked this idea. The reason the Priest comes to the congregation is because he is the servant of the people. The Holy Father greatly liked how this was shown in the mass as well. the 2 year grace period was not a grace period it was to find out how the parishes would accept the way and to see wht the arguments were against it so that they could e mended. But as i said before the only thing Changed was the standing, and this was the idea of Kiko that the Pope greatly liked.

Never have they been told to “reign in their wild ways” by the Pope. Pope John Paul 2 on many occasoins expressed how much he loved the Way. Pope Benedict 16 also expressed how much he loved the Way. He meets With Kiko and Carmen often, at World Youth Day he did this also.

There have been people who do not understand the way and for that reason they are greatly offended when they come to the mass or liturgy. If you attend a catacisis perhaps you will better understand them. But as they say it is not for everyone.

It is obvious you have been deceived on that our last and current Pope “love” the Neocatechumenal “Mass”.

More likely —stuff like what Arguello is trying to pass off as a Mass – let our late Pope John Paul II to write the following and to mandate the document in the second link.

adoremus.org/EcclesiaDeEucharistia.html#anchor566973

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html
 
This is how it is. Many of thesee letters come from bishops or cardinals, the Way is told to listen to these men, but in the end the pope has the final say.

When the Pope sighned their statutes the only thing he changed was this. Instead of sitting when they recieve Eucharist, because so many bishops had objected to that, he followed what Kiko suggested and had everyone stand. They remain at their seats but stand, this is symbolic to show that they stand when Jesus comes to them. The Pope very much liked this idea. The reason the Priest comes to the congregation is because he is the servant of the people. The Holy Father greatly liked how this was shown in the mass as well. the 2 year grace period was not a grace period it was to find out how the parishes would accept the way and to see wht the arguments were against it so that they could e mended. But as i said before the only thing Changed was the standing, and this was the idea of Kiko that the Pope greatly liked.

Never have they been told to “reign in their wild ways” by the Pope. Pope John Paul 2 on many occasoins expressed how much he loved the Way. Pope Benedict 16 also expressed how much he loved the Way. He meets With Kiko and Carmen often, at World Youth Day he did this also.

There have been people who do not understand the way and for that reason they are greatly offended when they come to the mass or liturgy. If you attend a catacisis perhaps you will better understand them. But as they say it is not for everyone.
However, there were other problems with the Mass, for example the manner in which the exhortations by the laity were made.

Rosetta, I have been to one such Mass and I found it very problematic. My rector, who had to celebrate this particular liturgy for them, also had strong reservations about the practices.

The issue of Holy Communion is not the only change that was requested. The Holy Father exhorted them, through the letter he directed the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments to write, that they needed to follow the liturgical documents of the Church. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is not a do-it-yourself project. No movement has the right to treat the Mass as their own personal property.
 
i am in the Way. and have been my whole life. the really only problems people have with the mass is that it is diffrent. we are not changing the mass it is just the same as yours. isnt it more important that the people come for the mass, come to recieve jesus in the Eucharist. to often people focus on the rules the laws but jeesus came to fullfill the laws. the mass done by the early christians were celebrations. they had no set liturgy they would just celebrate that jesus has saved them.

The Ways mass is no diffrent form regular mass except for how the Eucharist is recieved and the echos. the echos are when the congregation tells about what struck them in the readings concerning their life. it is not a homliy, only the priest can give the homily. usually the children speak first because as it says “out of the mouth of babes”.

i have never heard of this letter ever!! many people write to the way witout the Popes authority. and trust me we know all about what people saty about us. If you read out statutes it clearly defines what they way does. now the “grace period” was actually called experientum. please excuse my spelling. this was to see if the Way actaully had value. and it does, many people have converted because of the catachesis. i myself am a catacist.

at some churches the Way is in charge of the conformation classes. many priests do not like it but look at the good it does. the Way helps the people in their parish. the mass is open to all who want to come but many dont want to. please before you cast all these judgments at least attend a catacisis till the end. perhaps it wont change your mind but this way you will know somewhat of what you are talking about.
 
Rosetta, while your support for the group is laudable and understandable, I think that perhaps some distinctions should be made.

I have been to one Neocatechumenal Way service. I happened to be there by accident due to circumstances beyond my control. My previous pastor was in the beginning stages of Alzheimers and had wandered into our parish. It was my task to take him to the former Episcopal Vicar who was the pastor at what is now the Cathedral. I knew that something was happening at the church, but, I wasn’t quite sure what it was until I saw the configuration of the sanctuary.

This was about 8PM and the pastor had already celebrated two weddings, a funeral and the anticipated Sunday Mass. My former pastor and I were seated at a side pew as we watched the whole service play out. The flowers on top of the altar were rather strange, but, even more disconcerting was the fact that the chairs were arranged in a circle and they were all gathered in the sanctuary.

While the prayers were th ones used for the Mass, as were the readings, everything else was radically different, from the composition of the bread to the sacred vessels, including a huge octagon chalice and a very large paten. The Liturgy of the Word was very long, due in part to the excessive commentary that seemed to have bled into the readings. The homily was not even a homily at all. Mind you, the celebrant is the best homilist in the diocese; however, he wasn’t given the chance to do much preaching, as the community pretty much took over.

Part of me wanted to bolt out the door, especially with the singing, which was not singing, but, more like wailing. This is not meant to be disrespectful, but, that is what it sounded like. My former pastor turned to me and asked me what had happened to the priest at this parish. “Is this even Catholic,” he asked me. Even though he was in the beginning stages of Alzheimer’s, his mind was clear enough to figure out that this wasn’t normal. He couldn’t remember if he had eaten that day or how he got to our city from another town, but, it sure registered to him that something was amiss that night. Furthermore, the look of angst on the face of the celebrant pretty much told the story. It wasn’t so much that he was tired (he enjoys celebrating Mass), but, this particular service was very draining and very difficut because it was against what the norms for the Holy Sacrifice require.

My former pastor did recognize the EP (even though it was in Spanish) and, it was moving to see him raise his hand during the Consecration, as though he were a concelebrant, and to bow his head at the elevation of each species. However, he still had questions about what was going on with the group.

The reception of Holy Communion was strange, as well, since the group remained seated at their places during the distribution.

All told, the service took almost two hours. Once the group left, my friend (the pastor) asked me what was up with our mutual friend (my former pastor). I explained the situation and he agreed to take care of him. I escorted my former pastor to the sacristy and I heard him ask our friend, “XXXX, just what in the world was going on out there?” The pastor had a look of consternation at what had just happened. He later told me that this was not something he enjoyed doing, but, he had to because it was at the bishop’s request.

I have also been to a couple of their meetings, since I had to open up the church for them, on occasion. While their catechesis is okay, ithey did do something rather strange when their seminar was over. They gathered outside, formed a huge circle, joined hands and began to dance. I somehow got sucked into the whirlwind and it was not the most comfortable feeling in the world.

Mind you, I am not a fuddy duddy, but, this was too much. However, I did not want to apear inhospitable (in fact, I had to open up and close after them on quite a few occasoins), but, I just didn’t want to do this. One time, the pastor, who didn’t want to dance, grabbed a baby and pushed me into the circle. :eek: He figured I should have a share in his pain.

Rosetta, these are good people and they have the best of intentions, but, it’s the manner in which they have celebrated the Mass that raises the huge, glaring red flag.

Thus, what they did in the past was no where near looking like the normal Sunday Mass you attend in your regular parish. It is no wonder that there were many objections to this particular format and why the Holy Father acted in the manner he did.

As for Jesus and the fulfillment of the law, remember,too, that He didn’t waste any time clearing the temple of the money changers and the animal vendors. He very much cared how He was to be worshipped and, through the Petrine Ministry, left this to the care of St. Peter and his successors.
 
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