Neocatechumenal Way

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What exactly does that mean? It’s pretty vague the way you ask it.
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Ok I’ll rephrase the question. What is the Holy Father meaning, when he says?
At the same time, the gradual growth in faith of the individual and of the small community should foster their insertion in the life of the large ecclesial community, whose usual place is in the liturgical celebration of the parish, in which and for which it is implemented
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myfathersson said:
Those that are interested, and are able to read Italian, the theological problems of the NCW have been clearly articulated and analysed by Fr Villa:

chiesaviva.org/speciali-anno-2000-12.html?download=10%3Aeresie-nella-dottrina-neo-cat

Otherwise, translate for an inferior version:

translate.google.com.au/translate?hl=en&sl=it&u=http://www.chiesaviva.org/speciali-anno-2000-12.html%3Fdownload%3D10%253Aeresie-nella-dottrina-neo-cat&prev=/search%3Fq%3Deresie%2Bnella%2Bdottrina%2Bneo%2Bcatecumenale%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D856
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I wouldn’t trust one word of Chiesa. I got about 2 paragraphs into one of their articles and saw glaring inaccuracies.
 
myfathersson said:
Ok I’ll rephrase the question. What is the Holy Father meaning, when he says?
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I am fairly certain that the Holy Father did not mean for communities in the Neocatechumenal Way to discontinue celebrating with their communities.

And even if he did, which of the 6 masses celebrated in my parish would be the appropriate one to celebrate with the larger community. After all, most people only regularly attend at a particular time. Should I celebrate with the Saturday 5:30 PM folks? Or should I celebrate with the Saturday 7:00 PM Italian Mass folks.

Or should I celebrate at 8:00 AM Sunday morning? Or 10:00 AM? Or 12 noon? Maybe the appropriate Mass is 7:00 PM Sunday evening.

Are all these masses separate from the larger parish community? I would say not. Equally, the Mass celebrated with the communities is also a parish mass as stipulated in the statutes. Also, this Mass is open to all members of the parish community. You do not have to belong to a Neocatechumenal community.

So I see all of this as a red herring.

Can we get on with the business of evangelization?
 
myfathersson said:
Those that are interested, and are able to read Italian, the theological problems of the NCW have been clearly articulated and analysed by Fr Villa
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…that Fr. Villa, who, by the way, thinks that Pope Paul VI was a free mason. Those that are interested, can also read that one of the major premises of the work is that the NCW has no Statute (of course, the article was composed before the Statute of the NCW; so that premise has fallen flat on its face). I would be curious why someone posts a link to rubbish like that.
 
myfathersson said:
Unless he is formed in a NCW seminary - in which case it is the NCW who ultimately decides.
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You mean to propose that the formation of the diocesan missionary “Redemptoris Mater” Seminaries deprives candidates of their freedom of will? Again a brainwashing theory…
The diocesan missionary “Redemptoris Mater” Seminaries that I am familiar with give very solid formation. A good number of them have no separate faculty from their diocesan (non-missionary) counterparts (meaning the seminarians take the exact same classes as the rest of the diocesan candidates). In Rome, I think they study in the Gregorianum.
 
Are all these masses separate from the larger parish community? I would say not. Equally, the Mass celebrated with the communities is also a parish mass as stipulated in the statutes. Also, this Mass is open to all members of the parish community. You do not have to belong to a Neocatechumenal community.
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So I see all of this as a red herring.
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Well, you know that the NCW Eucharists are not ‘open to all members of the parish community’. Even the fact that each community has its own Eucharist implies that it is restrictive. It seems to me that the Holy Father is saying that the puropse of the small ecclesial community celebration is to lead the member, and the community, into the large ecclesial community. Why would he say this if he believed that “Equally, the Mass celebrated with the communities is also a parish mass”?
I wouldn’t trust one word of Chiesa
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that Fr. Villa, who, by the way, thinks that Pope Paul VI was a free mason
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What does it matter whether Chiesa is trustworthy or not - or whether Fr Villa believed Pope Paul VI was associated with the Masons. It is the theology at issue, not some ‘red herring’ ad hominem. Fr Villa’s analysis is excellent and still applies despite being made prior to the promulgation of the Statutes. Or has the theology changed since then?
You mean to propose that the formation of the diocesan missionary “Redemptoris Mater” Seminaries deprives candidates of their freedom of will? Again a brainwashing theory…
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Not that they are deprived of their free will. But essentially brainwashed, yes.
 
It seems you have a very limited experience with the formation that occurs in the Redemptoris Mater seminaries. They are no more brainwashed than anyone else who enters the seminary. Regarding the theological issues, if you so wish I could waste mine and everyones time going over that document you posted when it is factually incorrect. Ive already mentioned a few times that doctrinal errors in such a large group as this would have been remedied by the Holy See, but that doesnt seem to satisfy your need to claim that things are heretical.

And the reason there are many eucharests is not for it to be restrictive, but to live it in small communities with what is essentially a random assortment of people that have become brothers. As I have mentioned before that there are parishoners do come to the eucharests without even being interested in joining a community. Many take a while to get used to the added length, but those that dont mind it often return.

I agree that the words of the Holy Father that you posted are complex. The issue is that if the source of faith of the brothers of communities has come from walking in the ‘tripod’ then you cant change that and expect it to be the same. The truth is that there is a different life that can be found in celebrating the eucharest in a community where efficaciousness of the sacrament may be made present. So the question is, how can you retain your source of faith and yet integrate that faith into the parish? Through the ministries that the church offers is one way. Through doing mission to find those people that are not coming back (a very large group are those that receive confirmation and never come back after) is another. And in general involvement in the parish.
 
Hi Itari,

I am sorry, but this sounds absurd, do you claim that the sacrament is less efficacious if the Eucharist is celebrated during the normal parish mass?
Itari said:
The truth is that there is a different life that can be found in celebrating the eucharest in a community where efficaciousness of the sacrament may be made present.
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Well it depends on your understanding of how the sacrament works. A basic assumtion is that the recepient has faith in order to receive it. If, lets say, you need to go get some water, is it more effective to collect it in a strainer or in a basket? Well the ‘intactness’ of this bucket comes from faith. The majority of people have poor to no faith, so if you send a person without faith to mass they will tell you that they stopped believing in magic as a child.

Now if you read carefully what I said, I write using very specific words, you will see that I meant the following. Based on a quick google search the word efficaciousness has the following definition: “having the power to produce a desired effect,” What I wrote is not that the sacrament magically becomes more efficacious, but that it its effectiveness is made more apparent. Why? Because for those that go they are able to collect water using a bucket instead of the strainer. Now if for you the bucket is already at hand then go on to the regular mass, but for the majority of people, those who are not in church to whom we have a duty to look for, their faith does not exist in such a way which can receive the graces given them by the sacrament.
 
myfathersson said:
Well, you know that the NCW Eucharists are not ‘open to all members of the parish community’. Even the fact that each community has its own Eucharist implies that it is restrictive.
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inasmuch as having a 9am and an 11am Mass is restrictive, because only those will participate in one of them who prefer the time or the particular differences there might be in that celebration.
It seems to me that the Holy Father is saying that the puropse of the small ecclesial community celebration is to lead the member, and the community, into the large ecclesial community. Why would he say this if he believed that “Equally, the Mass celebrated with the communities is also a parish mass”?
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So what do you think the words “part of the Sunday liturgical pastoral work of the parish” mean if not that it is also a parish Mass? Wouldn’t the Holy Father do something about this clause in the Statute if he believed otherwise? The apparent contradiction you propose is false. People are brought to the large ecclesial community by being brought to love and serve God, regardless of which Mass they choose to attend, as long as the Eucharist truly becomes the source and summit of their lives. The Holy Father’s words point out the fact that the Mass may be celebrated in small community, not that it is “separate”, which it is not.
 
I am from Uganda( Africa) in my early 20s and am in the way… Its is indeed worthwhile to walk the way. about agape; yes we share a meal after celebrations including the Eucharist occasionally. For instance when we are welcoming a new community, or welcoming children who have just received first holy communion like next Sunday ( corpus Christi) among other occasions. the agape is to celebrate God’s love for us kind of like what youy do on xmass at home or easter. the food is not the point but a Crucial part of the celebration.

About our liturgy; We are completely in communion with the church.:blessyou::blessyou::blessyou::blessyou::blessyou::blessyou::blessyou::blessyou:
 
I’m very happy to hear “agape” and “full communion with the church”. We (Catholics) need you to stay in the church. Truly, one of the most beautiful blessings of Catholicism is that we truly exemplify the diversity of the many parts but all ONE body of Christ.
 
myfathersson said:
Well, you know that the NCW Eucharists are not ‘open to all members of the parish community’.
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That is an absolutely false statement. You should get your facts straight before you opine on things you know little about. There are a number of reasons the Eucharist is celebrated in small communities. None of them have a single iota to do with restrictiveness.
 
Itari said:
Now for anyone that wants a copy of the catechesis they are filed in the Consilium pro Laicis so you have to work through that office to get one.
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A rather disingeneous statement.

Keeping such documents secret, hidden from adherents and outsiders alike, this whole sequential initiation pattern reminds me of Gnostics, Freemasons, Scientology and such.

Most uncatholic a practice, I should say.

I would expect a transparent organisation to offer an official Q&A answering theological, liturgical, financial etc. scrutiny considering all the controversy. It’s quite telling it does not.

Why does it shirk bright daylight?
 
**I joined when it came to my parish. As with all spiritual opportunities within the Church - people have good experiences and some have negative ones.

I had a very negative one for several reasons and would not in all good conscience recommend it - not because of my experience rather some of the language used in the Catechesis sessions. This apostolate may be for many parishes - it tore the parish I belong to apart.

I would suggest some of the spiritual opportunities that have stood the test of time.**
 
Hello everybody,
I’m a Spanish girl, and I’m planning on doing a course in the UK. I would like to know about the Neocatechumenal Way in this country, I know that there are communities in Glasgow and London… what about other cities? I would welcome any information that you can provide me, because I want to attend to a community while doing the course, so this information will be decisive to choose the city to do the course in.
Thanks a lot, God bless!
 
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