Nephilims have human mothers and were fathered by angels?

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Ghosty wrote:
There is no Catholic doctrine regarding the interpretation of that passage either way. Your idea is most certainly not a part of Catholic teaching either. My point is that the traditional Jewish interpretation is that these spirits did indeed mate with humans and produced Nephilim. That has always been the Jewish understanding, and was apparently the understanding (non-doctrinal) of the Apostles since they quoted Enoch in a number of places.

My point is that this is NOT a pagan superstition of Mohammed, but rather a very pious belief from Judaism and Christianity. The Church has never ruled, to my knowledge, that this belief is contrary to the Truth. It has never spoken officially on the matter.
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Nope, only Nephilim, who are described as very abnormal giants with a whole host of evil inclinations. The Flood was supposed to take care of them. What’s more, I don’t know that this is what actually occured. I didn’t say I believe it one way or another, only that it comes from Jewish tradition, and the work in question was quoted a number of times by the Apostles.

Quote:
And can you say that angels whether good or bad can make babies from human beings?

No, I can’t say that either way. I only “know” that according to Jewish and early Christian tradition (not Sacred Tradition), some spiritual beings fathered the Nephilim with human mothers. These spiritual beings were definately of the bad sort, or “became” bad by fathering the Nephilim, as they were punished by being “locked away in darkness” as described in 2 Peter.
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I found this to be interesting so I want some folks here to give an insight of what Ghosty is trying to say.

Pio
 
Are you asking if we agree that the nephilims had mothers and were fathered by angels?

I don’t know if it’s true but it’s what I was taught as an Evangleical.
Or was it as a JW? Now I’m not so sure but I know I picked that up somewhere along the way?? Isn’t that why the world was so wicked before the flood?
 
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hlgomez:
Ghosty wrote:

I found this to be interesting so I want some folks here to give an insight of what Ghosty is trying to say.

Pio
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Genesis 6:1-4
1 And after that men began to be multiplied upon the earth, and daughters were born to them, 2 The sons of God seeing the daughters of men, that they were fair, took to themselves wives of all which they chose. 3 And God said: My spirit shall not remain in man for ever, because he is flesh, and his days shall be a hundred and twenty years. 4 Now giants were upon the earth in those days. For after the sons of God went in to the daughters of men, and they brought forth children, these are the mighty men of old, men of renown.

2 “The sons of God”… The descendants of Seth and Enos are here called sons of God from their religion and piety: whereas the ungodly race of Cain, who by their carnal affections lay grovelling upon the earth, are called the children of men. The unhappy consequence of the former marrying with the latter, ought to be a warning to Christians to be very circumspect in their marriages; and not to suffer themselves to be determined in their choice by their carnal passion, to the prejudice of virtue or religion.

3 “His days shall be”… The meaning is, that man’s days, which before the flood were usually 900 years, should now be reduced to 120 years. Or rather, that God would allow men this term of 120 years, for their repentance and conversion, before he would send the deluge.

4 “Giants”… It is likely the generality of men before the flood were of a gigantic stature in comparison with what men now are. But these here spoken of are called giants, as being not only tall in stature, but violent and savage in their dispositions, and mere monsters of cruelty and lust.
The Navarre says about Genesis 6:1-4:
(Concerning the Nephilim): Alluding perhaps to a myth in vogue in ancient times, to the effect that giants were the offsrping of women who mated with beings of a higher order, the sacred writer is stressing here the headway that sin and disorder have made. In this passage we are told that God put a limit on man’s lifespan as a punishment for sin. We cannot work out what the expression “sons of God” means here. Jewish tradition and some ancient Christian writers read it as meaning fallen angels; but that explanation does not fit in with the spiritual nature of angels. Therefore, it has been interpreted as meaning good men, the descendants of Seth who indiscriminately took as wives the descendants of Cain, here called the “daughters of men”. This is the explanation given by St. Augustine (De civitate Dei, 15, 23), St. John Chrysostom (Homiliae in Genesim, 22, 4), St. Cyril of Alexandria (Glaphyra in Genesim, 2, 2) and other Fathers. Mankind’s moral decline on account of pride and abuses of marriage prepares the way for the upcoming account of the flood.
 
Hi,

I’ve always been baffled on this. I read a translation of the book of enoch and it seems to back the nephilim story a little. Not sure which is true…But i wouldn’t take it too seriously.
 
The Navarre says about Genesis 6:1-4:
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(Concerning the Nephilim): Alluding perhaps to a myth in vogue in ancient times, to the effect that giants were the offsrping of women who mated with beings of a higher order, the sacred writer is stressing here the headway that sin and disorder have made. In this passage we are told that God put a limit on man’s lifespan as a punishment for sin. We cannot work out what the expression “sons of God” means here. Jewish tradition and some ancient Christian writers read it as meaning fallen angels; but that explanation does not fit in with the spiritual nature of angels. Therefore, it has been interpreted as meaning good men, the descendants of Seth who indiscriminately took as wives the descendants of Cain, here called the “daughters of men”. This is the explanation given by St. Augustine (De civitate Dei, 15, 23), St. John Chrysostom (Homiliae in Genesim, 22, 4), St. Cyril of Alexandria (Glaphyra in Genesim, 2, 2) and other Fathers. Mankind’s moral decline on account of pride and abuses of marriage prepares the way for the upcoming account of the flood.
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I agree more on this interpretation of the early fathers of the church, not by some other so called “Christian writers” which I can’t find any. We also should remember that some of the early “Christian writers”, if any had subscribed to the notion that angels can mate with humans, are themselves heretics.

Pio
 
I am not very familiar with this section of the Bible. From a Catholic perspective, how is this viewed? In other words, why would this be included in Holy Scripture and in what sense are we to study it?

DId my question make sense?

thanks, everyone, for your patience with me.
 
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LSK:
I am not very familiar with this section of the Bible. From a Catholic perspective, how is this viewed? In other words, why would this be included in Holy Scripture and in what sense are we to study it?
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“The unhappy consequence of the former marrying with the latter, ought to be a warning to Christians to be very circumspect in their marriages; and not to suffer themselves to be determined in their choice by their carnal passion, to the prejudice of virtue or religion.”

Be wary of who you marry :).

There are things to consider in a marriage BESIDES chemical attraction and feelings of “love”.

Note that this was the initial stages of the downfall of the Earth’s population at that time, and shortly thereafter things had degraded so far that God felt compelled to “wash it away”.

I believe God intends for us to view these early scriptures as subtle lessons on how very small- almost harmless concessions in how we value marriage, sexuality, and relationships- can lead to very dire consequences when not considering the moral and common sense aspect of our decisions.
DId my question make sense?

thanks, everyone, for your patience with me.
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Hope that helped, and I hope I understood your question the way you meant it to be understood. 🙂

Blessings!
 
Yes, 1 Enoch gives a more detailed version of this corruption, to include the names of the angels involved, as well as what they taught mankind that polluted them so much(it wasn’t just about sex).

As another veiw of this tradition, I remember reading a few years back on some website on how this story is a retelling of certain greek myths, particularly surrounding Atlantis. In this veiw, the “giants” were the Titans, and the flood was Zeus sinking Atlantis (rather than the entire world being deluged) in his overthrow of the Titans’ rule.

As to how a Catholic is supposed to approach the subject, I don’t know yet, but Shiann’s interpretation sounds good to me.
 
The “Christian writers” in question would be the Apostles, since they quoted the story of Enoch that describes in detail the nephilim.

2 Peter 2:4 describes a scene from Enoch when it says:

4For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment.

The sin in question was mating with human women. This is almost an exact description of what occurs in the Book of Enoch.

And Paul, in 1 Corinthians 11:

6If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head. 7A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. 8For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; 9neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. 10For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head.

The idea being that women must be modest to avoid invoking lust in the angels. Why else would he advise modesty “because of the angels”?

Now, this is NOT to say that these are official readings. The Apostles did not teach directly that angels did mate with human women, but it does seem that they believed the story, at least in part. The letter of Jude also references the Book of Enoch, indicating a widespread use of the story amongst early Christians, and espescially the Apostles.

I’m not saying this is official Church teaching, or even Apostalic teaching, but the Book of Enoch WAS apparently read by the Apostles, and believed to a great extent. Even if they believed it, we are not obliged to.
 
The idea being that women must be modest to avoid invoking lust in the angels. Why else would he advise modesty “because of the angels”?
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I am not sure what the Church has to say about it, but a very common interpretation ties it in to another verse where it says that the angels report to God on our dealings on earth, so Paul means that we don’t want the angels to catch us doing anything wrong to report to God.
 
I am not sure what the Church has to say about it, but a very common interpretation ties it in to another verse where it says that the angels report to God on our dealings on earth, so Paul means that we don’t want the angels to catch us doing anything wrong to report to God.
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That certainly works too. The Church has not spoken out definatively on this matter, is my main point. I’m not even sure what I believe in this matter, in fact I don’t really care one way or another.

I did find an interesting point from the Catechism, though:

441 In the Old Testament, “son of God” is a title given to the angels, the Chosen People, the children of Israel, and their kings. It signifies an adoptive sonship that establishes a relationship of particular intimacy between God and his creature. When the promised Messiah-King is called “son of God”, it does not necessarily imply that he was more than human, according to the literal meaning of these texts. Those who called Jesus “son of God”, as the Messiah of Israel, perhaps meant nothing more than this.

The passage in Genesis in question is from Chapter 6:

1 When men began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose.

Now, one could argue that the meaning of the term here is one of the ones besides angels, but angels is not only applicable, it’s the most relevant since the relationship between God and man hasn’t yet been established in the manner that “sons of God” implies when refering to humans.
 
why did they produce giants, and isnt it possible that the sons of god mention in genesis, are somthing other then human and angel. unless its just a figuritive story.
 
I have heard the angel interpretation and I ahve also heard the interpretation that the environment/genetics was such a way that made the people that big. I have also heard that it was because the good people mated with the bad people which is why the people turned so bad which caused the flood. So basically I have ehard a lot of different views on the subject.
 
There are 2 sides to the question. Most Church Fathers did not believe that this is speaking of Angels (spiritual beings) as the explanation of St. Augustine quoted above explains.

Others believed that it MIGHT be angels; actually many believed that the ANTICHRIST was going to be conceived this way. BUT angels CANNOT produce children. So what’s the solution? These days we have artificial insemination. Fr. Montague Summers believed that certain demons “succabus” attacked men and when the men ejaculated their seman was preserved (through angelic power) and when the same or another angel “incubus” attacked a woman it would inseminate her with that seman. This he wrote in the 1920’s way before IVF ever existed. thedavincicodedemolished.com/witchcraft-paganism-exorcism.html

As to the “giants” produced from such union, is it hard to believe, THESE DAYS, with the advent of **GENETIC manipulation ** that the demons, who are so much more intelligent than man, could have manipulated the genes in the fertilized egg to produce men of supperior hight, strength, intelligence, speed… ? It is possible.

For those who might scoff at the notion of women (or men) having sexual relations with demons as a fantasy; this phenomenon occured in most cultures; even today there are occult books teaching people how to call forth an “angel” for that purpose. I actually remember **LUCY LIU ** once said on TV that when she was young she had sexual relations with a spirit. It seems to be still happening today.
 
well certainly there is lessons for us about marriage etc as said. But obviously something happened back then, we are not clear what. The story with the Nephilims would stand if one thinks anything satan does is to imitate God and perhaps this was yet another plan?? And God put a end to it.

Here is a link to get some more thought on the subject

alienresistance.org

There is another whole side non christians would say christians are wholly unaware of.
 
The thread actually stopped in July of last year; it just happened to get resurrected by freesoulhope.

In other words, you aren’t to blame 😃
 
Heeeeeeeeeeeyyyyyyy 😃 wooooooooooooow :o Whats wrong with a little reserrection now and then. :mad: 😛
 
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freesoulhope:
Heeeeeeeeeeeyyyyyyy 😃 wooooooooooooow :o Whats wrong with a little reserrection now and then. :mad: 😛
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Nothing at all! Just wanted to ease Kitty Chan’s conscience, and assure her that she had not commited murder 😉
 
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