Nero Cesar and Anti-Christ

[Mike_Olson]

So if Nero Cesar was the Anti-Christ what does mean to the book of Revelation? I mean if the Anti-Christ was him has “end time” prophecy been fulfilled? Has this all taken place during the Roman Empire?

 

[philipbenedict]

By definition Nero Caesar was not an Anti-Christ. He savagely persecuted the Christians but did not imply any supreme religious deception (pseudo-messianism).

 

[philipbenedict]

I think it means that he will have to come back to do it. It has not happened yet!

 

[porthos11]

Revelation has an immediate meaning which has been fulfilled, otherwise it would have meant nothing to the early Christians. It primarily refers to the time surrounding the destruction of Jerusalem and the persecution of Christians under Nero and possibly Domitian. The first and literal meaning of Revelation is the promise that God will triumph over the pagan Roman Empire, already having judged apostate Jerusalem. It describes end-times, but for early Christians, the end-times was the destruction of the Temple, signifying the definitive passing of the Old Law.

Of course, it has eschatological meaning, which says that all the first-century signs signify the final triumph of Christ and the Church, and so we are open to meaning of some great events in the future.

The Church has never required anyone to take Revelation 100% literally.

See The Lamb’s Supper by Scott Hahn for more details.

 

[Todd_Easton]

Mike_Olson:

So if Nero Cesar was the Anti-Christ what does mean to the book of Revelation? I mean if the Anti-Christ was him has “end time” prophecy been fulfilled? Has this all taken place during the Roman Empire?

How’s this…
Assuming that the visions of Revelation are chronological, if Nero was the first beast of Revelation chapter 13, (Revelation doesn’t use the word Antichrist.) then the end of Nero’s influence in the world in chapter 19 would correspond to his death, or more probably to the end of the persecution of Christians in the Roman Empire by Constantine I in A.D. 313, or to the establishment of Christianity as the state religion of the Roman Empire by Theodosius I around A.D. 394. That means we are either somewhere in the middle of a long heavenly thousand year reign of Christ and his saints as described in chapter 20 awaiting the final release of Satan from his prison and his seduction of the nations (perhaps through an individual Antichrist or simply through an anti-Christian, secular messianism). Or, if Satan has already been released from his prison (chapter 20, verse 7), then his seduction of the nations (verse 8) is underway right now. In either case, we still await the final full-out assault on the Church (verse 9a) which will only end with Christ’s second coming and the defeat of the devil’s troops and the defeat of the devil himself (verses 9b-10); followed by Christ’s white throne last judgment of the living and the dead (verses 11-15); and the new heavens and new earth of chapter 21.

 

[Mike_Olson]

Thanks for the replies! Revelation has always confounded me. More comments would be welcome.

 

[Fidelis]

Mike_Olson:

Thanks for the replies! Revelation has always confounded me. More comments would be welcome.

Let me recommend some resources, in ascending order of depth and thoroughness:

The Time Is Near
Five Common Misinterpretations of the Book of Revelation
catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0209fea5.asp

Will Catholics Be Left Behind?
Carl Olsen’s Catholic Website about the “Left Behind” series and End Times topics:
carl-olson.com/rapture_articles.html

The Navarre Bible Commentary- Revelation
scepterpublishers.org/product/?FULL=123

The End: A Study On The Book of Revelation
Tape Series by Scott Hahn
(Study Guide Available)
saintjoe.com/p/prod_desc.pl?id=169

That should get you started!

 

[Shibboleth]

We always like to think that the Scriptures that we currently have translated are the infallible documents, but then pops up something that makes us take a new look at things.

Well it has happened again. For years we have had a collection of Oxyrhynchus manuscripts that predate most of the existing scriptures in our possession. Until recently due to decay these manuscripts have been illegible but thanks to technology we can now read most of them.

Anyways these manuscripts have the number of the beast as 616 in Revelations not 666. This is not an entirely new discovery as we have other manuscripts that support 616 as well.

It will be interesting if we change our Biblical Translations on this in the future.

 

[JimG]

porthos11:

Revelation has an immediate meaning which has been fulfilled, otherwise it would have meant nothing to the early Christians. It primarily refers to the time surrounding the destruction of Jerusalem and the persecution of Christians under Nero and possibly Domitian. The first and literal meaning of Revelation is the promise that God will triumph over the pagan Roman Empire, already having judged apostate Jerusalem. It describes end-times, but for early Christians, the end-times was the destruction of the Temple, signifying the definitive passing of the Old Law.

Of course, it has eschatological meaning, which says that all the first-century signs signify the final triumph of Christ and the Church, and so we are open to meaning of some great events in the future.

The Church has never required anyone to take Revelation 100% literally.

See The Lamb’s Supper by Scott Hahn for more details.

What he said!

Revelation’s original meaning to first century Christians had to do with their times, not ours! We can also see in it an eschatological meaning for our own or future times, but that is secondary.

 

[kenny333]

you know i have omens like lucifur sayin my name in the song come to daddy quote (note to kenny come to daddy) the head of nero is on the black tv that you see a few times neo is on the wall with the troll in the begging

by artist (aphex twin)

video link below

youtube.com/watch?v=5Az_7U0-cK0

listen for my name kenny

what is a apex twin— it is your past ghost from your last lives

i also have the powers to shake ground and obtain a crystal skull which takes a long time for more on crystall skulls vist this link and how it turns to crystall go to the second link

link 1

science.howstuffworks.com/crystal-skull.htm

link 2

sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6THR-4326628-2R&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=d2d49c413ed9d21c77edbf837643fd08

first link read the second paragraph
second link read the abstract

im sort of like a dragon ball z charater
for my pic vist my myspace link

myspace.com/kenny3337

im like a god because i have the power of fire and to fly
(the power of the universe)

gods like nero, budda, kali, jesus, and the other gods

nero could start fires which is why they thought he started the fires,

budda could shake the ground which is why they called him fat which he is not
also some pics of nero fat because of that even doe he is not

kali would start earthquake and burn city to destroy them

jesus could walk on water and lift up mountains

u know gravity is a electric force pulling on you ( you have that power
and the power of fire because alot of electricity can start fires)

i have notic that when i sit i have more power

most people who died from Spontaneous combustion died in there chair

I have noticed that when i spark a burn in my arm or stomach that the next day it wont happen which basicly says i can evolve from this burning like evolving from fire slowly with your own bio-chemicals

some people did not have the power i mean manually an atomatic trigger awoke this too fast and there bodys were not ready for the massive amouts of nervous chemicals with out the protective crystall all that power will kill you —which is too much for me to say but if you read this far you deserve to know that much but like with the crystalls i wont tell you how to do it but

you should meditate on it if you want

using your eyes will mulipulate your energy to any color or shape

what im sayin is that im nero and im god but i go by kenny, neo, and neon not nero because people would think im a wanna be which i am

kenny is one of my omen as well as the prefix III thats behined my last name

if you look at the last album in the last pic in red i look like the exorcist look at the silver picture closly in the last album i have a red corner eye that resemly a heavenly satanic image

me reincarnated from him with that power would make me higher that all the gods on earth a god to worshiped and lusted

 

[Ron_Conte]

Nero was a foreshadowing of the Antichrist. St. Thomas held that the Antichrist was one person who would be born and take power in a future time.

 

[thistle]

Nero was a foreshadowing of the Antichrist. St. Thomas held that the Antichrist was one person who would be born and take power in a future time.

I just posted this in another thread. Its an extract and I have to say I have not read the whole document.

“As far as the antichrist is concerned, we have seen that in the New Testament he always assumes the lineaments of contemporary history. He cannot be restricted to any single individual. One and the same he wears many masks in each generation.” —Cardinal Ratzinger (POPE BENEDICT XVI), Dogmatic Theology, Eschatology 9, Johann Auer and Joseph Ratzinger, 1988, p. 199-200

 

[Crimson_Seraph]

Nero was dead by the time the Apocalypse was written. Make no mistake the Antichrist will come and indeed he may walk the earth in this time. His spirit has been in the world since the days of Saint John, but there is coming a day when he shall be revealed.

 

[Ron_Conte]

I just posted this in another thread. Its an extract and I have to say I have not read the whole document.

“As far as the antichrist is concerned, we have seen that in the New Testament he always assumes the lineaments of contemporary history. He cannot be restricted to any single individual. One and the same he wears many masks in each generation.” —Cardinal Ratzinger (POPE BENEDICT XVI), Dogmatic Theology, Eschatology 9, Johann Auer and Joseph Ratzinger, 1988, p. 199-200

The above quote is from Joseph Ratzinger’s private theology, so it is not an act of the Magisterium. Also, the expression ‘cannot be restricted to any single individual’ does not assert that there will never be a single individual who is properly called the Antichrist, but merely asserts that the concept applies also to those who foreshadow the Antichrist and to sins that prepare for his arrival, such as the sin of denying Christ.

This talk by the Pope speaks of the Antichrist as one individual:
zenit.org/article-24235?l=english
The rest of this text announces that before the arrival of the Lord, there will be the apostasy and the revelation of the no better defined “wicked one,” the “son of perdition” (2:3), which tradition will later call the Antichrist.

 

[ryanoneil]

So if Nero Cesar was the Anti-Christ what does mean to the book of Revelation? I mean if the Anti-Christ was him has “end time” prophecy been fulfilled? Has this all taken place during the Roman Empire?

It is similair to the fulfillment of Isaiah 7:14.

Therefore the Lord himself will give you this sign: the virgin shall be with child, and bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel.

It was initially fulfilled in Isaiah 8:3-4, but after this initial fulfillment the people of God taught that it still had another future fulfillment. And we see the second fulfillment in Mat 1:23.

The same applies to the Apocalypse. An event can be a prophecy of a still-future, final fulfillment.

 

[billsearcher]

Where (if anywhere) in scripture does it say that “anti-christ” was one identifiable and particular man who would show up in history?

 

[thistle]

The above quote is from Joseph Ratzinger’s private theology, so it is not an act of the Magisterium. Also, the expression ‘cannot be restricted to any single individual’ does not assert that there will never be a single individual who is properly called the Antichrist, but merely asserts that the concept applies also to those who foreshadow the Antichrist and to sins that prepare for his arrival, such as the sin of denying Christ.

This talk by the Pope speaks of the Antichrist as one individual:
zenit.org/article-24235?l=english
The rest of this text announces that before the arrival of the Lord, there will be the apostasy and the revelation of the no better defined “wicked one,” the “son of perdition” (2:3), which tradition will later call the Antichrist.

Thanks.

 

[Crimson_Seraph]

Where (if anywhere) in scripture does it say that “anti-christ” was one identifiable and particular man who would show up in history?

Mentions of him in Daniel, Thessalonians, the Epistles of John, and indeed the Revelation of John. Church history has always identified this person as the Antichrist.

 

[ryanoneil]

Where (if anywhere) in scripture does it say that “anti-christ” was one identifiable and particular man who would show up in history?

Wisdom is needed here; one who understands can calculate the number of the beast, for it is a number that stands for a person. His number is six hundred and sixty-six.
(Rev 13:18)

 

[billsearcher]

Wisdom is needed here; one who understands can calculate the number of the beast, for it is a number that stands for a person. His number is six hundred and sixty-six.
(Rev 13:18)

Thanks; but I was asking about the anti-christ and whether the bible mentions it as one particular and identifiable person.

I can find no such scripture.