Net Neutrality

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It seems to me the governments argument is “we want to make sure you continue to have the freedom of the net protected from the major “corrupt” corporations who might eventually one day want to restrict it. So take the power to restrict it away from them and give it to us…”

I have deep concerns about a government who forces religions to violate their beliefs to have any power at all to restrict websites like this one which may be opposed to those government policies. Isn’t that the foundation of the 1st Amendment?

We already have the freedom they propose, and in a free market society, if there is a need someone will come up with a solution. Hence we have both CNN and Fox and Breitbart and the Huffington Post…
 
I thought the net neutrality debate dealt with who would control bandwidth. If ISPs are allowed to favor profitable giants such as Netflix, and give them a priority share, smaller sites (such as this one - CAF) would load slower, or maybe not at all. I have heard it likened to a monopoly, where the big guys crowd out the little guys who are unable to compete financially, and it seems to me we will have far less diversity online if this is allowed to happen. But maybe I’m not understanding the issue.
 
“The Obama administration said that it would not let the public see its 332 page net neutrality plan until after the FCC voted on its implementation.” en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_neutrality

Sound familiar…

In a very real sense we do not have a full picture. My thought is: government secrecy plus more governmental power is not a good thing. Particularly as this administration has not only disregarded the 1st amendment, but actively persecuted press members and their families.
 
I thought the net neutrality debate dealt with who would control bandwidth. If ISPs are allowed to favor profitable giants such as Netflix, and give them a priority share, smaller sites (such as this one - CAF) would load slower, or maybe not at all. I have heard it likened to a monopoly, where the big guys crowd out the little guys who are unable to compete financially, and it seems to me we will have far less diversity online if this is allowed to happen. But maybe I’m not understanding the issue.
No, you understand it.

The idea of the internet is that it’s an end-to-end system. Anyone with an internet connection should be able to get to any web page anywhere.

What some big ISPs would like to do is charge not only you (for your internet service), but content providers (for the right to reach you). So Time Warner Cable could charge a fee to Netflix (your example) to stream movies to you. You’d also be paying TWC, of course. And they could reach a deal with Netflix under which, for a price, they’d restrict Netflix’s competitors from reaching you (by throttling their streaming, or charging them a prohibitive fee, or various other means).

And, since TWC also produces some content, either on its own or in partnership with others, they could block their competition from reaching you.

Net neutrality requires that the internet be treated more like the telephone communication system. Phone service providers cannot charge you more based on who’s calling you. They cannot decide that they will allow calls from, say, telemarketers to get through with high sound quality (for a fee, of course), while degrading the signal for calls from your Aunt Josephine in Iowa, for example.

Seems like a very good idea to me.
 
“The Obama administration said that it would not let the public see its 332 page net neutrality plan until after the FCC voted on its implementation.” en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_neutrality

Sound familiar…

In a very real sense we do not have a full picture. My thought is: government secrecy plus more governmental power is not a good thing. Particularly as this administration has not only disregarded the 1st amendment, but actively persecuted press members and their families.
👍
 
“The Obama administration said that it would not let the public see its 332 page net neutrality plan until after the FCC voted on its implementation.” en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_neutrality

Sound familiar…

In a very real sense we do not have a full picture. My thought is: government secrecy plus more governmental power is not a good thing. Particularly as this administration has not only disregarded the 1st amendment, but actively persecuted press members and their families.
I thought the net neutrality debate dealt with who would control bandwidth. If ISPs are allowed to favor profitable giants such as Netflix, and give them a priority share, smaller sites (such as this one - CAF) would load slower, or maybe not at all. I have heard it likened to a monopoly, where the big guys crowd out the little guys who are unable to compete financially, and it seems to me we will have far less diversity online if this is allowed to happen. But maybe I’m not understanding the issue.
The proposal is to let the government control access to the internet. Right now, internet suppliers give priority to those who are their biggest customers. That’s not unlike any business that gives volume discounts. But the internet providers do not exercise control of content. If the government is in charge of the internet, they will be able to determine who gets priority access and even who gets access at all.

The stated initial goal is to make sure that some companies that previously were only able to have slower access can get faster access. But once the control has been transferred, the government can exercise that control in any number of ways.

Right now, if you feel that an internet provider is treating you unfairly, you can seek redress from the courts. But it will be much harder to seek redress if you are trying to fight the government rather than a corporation.
 
No, you understand it.

The idea of the internet is that it’s an end-to-end system. Anyone with an internet connection should be able to get to any web page anywhere.

What some big ISPs would like to do is charge not only you (for your internet service), but content providers (for the right to reach you). So Time Warner Cable could charge a fee to Netflix (your example) to stream movies to you. You’d also be paying TWC, of course. And they could reach a deal with Netflix under which, for a price, they’d restrict Netflix’s competitors from reaching you (by throttling their streaming, or charging them a prohibitive fee, or various other means).

And, since TWC also produces some content, either on its own or in partnership with others, they could block their competition from reaching you.

Net neutrality requires that the internet be treated more like the telephone communication system. Phone service providers cannot charge you more based on who’s calling you. They cannot decide that they will allow calls from, say, telemarketers to get through with high sound quality (for a fee, of course), while degrading the signal for calls from your Aunt Josephine in Iowa, for example.

Seems like a very good idea to me.
+1

This is about consumer protection - ensuring that the Internet remains an open, so companies can’t snarl or forbid the use of their networks for competition reasons. Tech companies already do this.
 
No, you understand it.

The idea of the internet is that it’s an end-to-end system. Anyone with an internet connection should be able to get to any web page anywhere.

What some big ISPs would like to do is charge not only you (for your internet service), but content providers (for the right to reach you). So Time Warner Cable could charge a fee to Netflix (your example) to stream movies to you. You’d also be paying TWC, of course. And they could reach a deal with Netflix under which, for a price, they’d restrict Netflix’s competitors from reaching you (by throttling their streaming, or charging them a prohibitive fee, or various other means).

And, since TWC also produces some content, either on its own or in partnership with others, they could block their competition from reaching you.

Net neutrality requires that the internet be treated more like the telephone communication system. Phone service providers cannot charge you more based on who’s calling you. They cannot decide that they will allow calls from, say, telemarketers to get through with high sound quality (for a fee, of course), while degrading the signal for calls from your Aunt Josephine in Iowa, for example.

Seems like a very good idea to me.
You know, that’s a reasonable analysis of net neutrality as an abstract idea, but there is a big difference between an abstract idea of net neutrality and a specific piece of secret legislation. I’m not really sure that this analysis is correct in regard to the legislation, nor am I at all sure that anyone at all (including me of course) can possibly have an accurate analysis of a bill that we are not allowed to see. It is difficult to see how a bill that restricted throttling internet traffic based on its source could possibly take over 300 pages to say, unless there were more to it. I’d pretty much like to keep the government out of the Internet as much as possible. I can’t imagine they would make it better.

In addition, AFAIK, this legislation is aimed at solving a problem that we mostly don’t have, in case we might have it later. Aside from a few tentative forays into the area, I don’t think the major ISPs are actually doing this. They are fighting the government’s power to regulate them like a phone company (which, by the way, spends a lot of money proving that it is following the regulations–I would expect prices to go up for internet service). But as far as I’ve seen, they aren’t for the most part actually violating net neutrality, they’re just trying to keep their options open.

Frankly, for probably the majority of internet users, there are choices of where to get your service from. IIRC, I have a choice between four different high-speed providers. If one of them started throttling my service, I’d move to another one. If it ever became the majority practice, that would be the time to consider laws on the subject.

This isn’t one of those “letting the genie out of the bottle” situations, where once it happened, you couldn’t stop it. In fact, it would be just as easy, and a lot better, to see what things companies actualy try to do (and keep trying to do–there isn’t any point in making a law against something once everybody realizes that it doesn’t work out and they all stop doing it) before trying to outlaw them. New regulations mean new tax money spent, new bureaucrats, and in the end higher costs for internet services as well. And that’s assuming that the government doesn’t start trying to restrict the internet in other ways, if they have the power to do it.

–Jen
 
It seems to me the governments argument is “we want to make sure you continue to have the freedom of the net protected from the major “corrupt” corporations who might eventually one day want to restrict it. So take the power to restrict it away from them and give it to us…”

I have deep concerns about a government who forces religions to violate their beliefs to have any power at all to restrict websites like this one which may be opposed to those government policies. Isn’t that the foundation of the 1st Amendment?

We already have the freedom they propose, and in a free market society, if there is a need someone will come up with a solution. Hence we have both CNN and Fox and Breitbart and the Huffington Post…
  1. Freedom will decrease
  2. The security risk will increase
 
You know, that’s a reasonable analysis of net neutrality as an abstract idea, but there is a big difference between an abstract idea of net neutrality and a specific piece of secret legislation-
It’s not exactly legislation, and it’s not so secret. A summary is available here, and the full text of the order is expected to be released shortly.
 
+1

This is about consumer protection - ensuring that the Internet remains an open, so companies can’t snarl or forbid the use of their networks for competition reasons. Tech companies already do this.
And when CAF gets a letter from the FCC stating that this site must be more “neutral” and open to defending other religions - will we still think this was all about “consumer protection?”
 
It’s not exactly legislation, and it’s not so secret. A summary is available here, and the full text of the order is expected to be released shortly.
Possibly not. But it increases the powers of the government, and they haven’t yet released it. So I’ll probably keep calling it secret legislation (until they actually release it), even if it’s not 100% accurate. 😃

–Jen
 
+1

This is about consumer protection - ensuring that the Internet remains an open, so companies can’t snarl or forbid the use of their networks for competition reasons. Tech companies already do this.
What happens if they force ABC, NBC, PBS or even the BBC to have links and video of Rush LImbaugh and Sean Hannity on their webpages to be more “fair”?

What if they say that public schools need to do represent religion more to live up to diversity standards----even if that means using state and public resources to do so?

What happens when union websites are required to post positive information about right-to-work legislation, and if they don’t, they are fined and maybe even their sites are suspended from service until they comply?

See, big government is “fun” when it goes your way and use other people’s resource at the point of a fine or a gun even. But when others get their say or the opposite party gets into power and chooses to start working in the system…not so much.
 
And when CAF gets a letter from the FCC stating that this site must be more “neutral” and open to defending other religions - will we still think this was all about “consumer protection?”
Not going to happen. Net “neutrality” has nothing to do with the content of any websites. Absolutely nothing.

What it does do is keep my ISP from throttling my downloads when I’m trying to get on CAF because CAF isn’t able to pay a big fee to the ISP. In other words, ISPs must treat CAF neutrally.

The FCC isn’t in the business of regulating the content of religiously-oriented websites, and the net neutrality order does nothing to get them into that business.
 
Not going to happen. Net “neutrality” has nothing to do with the content of any websites. Absolutely nothing.

What it does do is keep my ISP from throttling my downloads when I’m trying to get on CAF because CAF isn’t able to pay a big fee to the ISP. In other words, ISPs must treat CAF neutrally.

The FCC isn’t in the business of regulating the content of religiously-oriented websites, and the net neutrality order does nothing to get them into that business.
Government also wasn’t in the business or regulating which couples you could sell a cake to. That’s now changed.

In fact, there is a lot of things government wasn’t regulating but now is.
 
What happens if they force ABC, NBC, PBS or even the BBC to have links and video of Rush LImbaugh and Sean Hannity on their webpages to be more “fair”?

What if they say that public schools need to do represent religion more to live up to diversity standards----even if that means using state and public resources to do so?

What happens when union websites are required to post positive information about right-to-work legislation, and if they don’t, they are fined and maybe even their sites are suspended from service until they comply?

See, big government is “fun” when it goes your way and use other people’s resource at the point of a fine or a gun even. But when others get their say or the opposite party gets into power and chooses to start working in the system…not so much.
Again, not going to happen.

But sure, let’s engage in this persecution fantasy. If the government wants to eliminate free speech and make everyone toe the government line and all that, they don’t need an order from the FCC regulating ISP business practices to do it.

This has nothing to do with content.
 
And when CAF gets a letter from the FCC stating that this site must be more “neutral” and open to defending other religions - will we still think this was all about “consumer protection?”
Or in World News when we can’t criticize the government or politicians.
 
Possibly not. But it increases the powers of the government, and they haven’t yet released it. So I’ll probably keep calling it secret legislation (until they actually release it), even if it’s not 100% accurate. 😃

–Jen
👍
 
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