Never able to vote again?

[2cats]

I’m a staunch Democrat who disagrees with almost every aspect of the Republican platform except life issues, which I understand are non-negotiable for Catholics. I also understand that, barring extreme circumstances, I’m not permitted to vote for a candidate who is not pro-life.

Unless an extremely moderate Republican comes along (which seems unlikely, the way both parties are being co-opted by their extremists), I can’t see myself ever voting Republican.

So I guess that means I will abstain from voting forever, or until the Dems nominate someone pro-life. (And I see the chances of that happening are just about nil.)

From other posts I’ve read, I suspect the overwhelming majority of posters on these boards are politically conservative, but is there anyone else out there in my boat who has basically stopped voting?

 

[vera_dicere]

The system where I am is a little different to the American system, we have a multi party system and indepedants so we can vote for mroe then just A or B.

Now, my problem is the party that is exceptionally pro-abortion, pro-gay marriage, and pro a whole heap of other thigns I find morally detestable also has all the other things I agree with, like helping the poor et cetera - kind of like our version of the Democrats, so I don’t vote for them. But our version of the “republicans” tends to have more pro-life members and while I disagree with some of their policies, I tend to agree with a good deal of their policies, so for me, while I don’t like someof what I’m voting for I vote for the “republican” version based on their pro-life stance.

Of course, with that said, issues like abortion, euthanasia are conscience votes so there’s no official party line, so you can get MPs in both parties who are pro-abortion or pro-life. There is one party that’s all about the environment who does have a “you have to be pro-abortion or vote pro-abortion if you join up” so whiel I really like their policies I won’t ever vote for them.

Last election I voted the “republican” version, and even though I had some concerns, and would have liked ot have voted for a more “christian values” party, it ended up being a 'two horse race" and I really wanted to knock the “democrat” party out of govt. because they had done a good job of damaging the moral fabric of our society.

Of course, with that said, if the “democrat” version party got rid of all the liberal pro-aborts, I’d happily vote for them again - and that could actulaly happen because a lot of people didn’t vote for them this time around because they were sick of the liberal social engineeering the party had done whilst in govt.

 

[Rascalking]

If you choose never to vote again, you give up your right to complain about ANY aspect of poltics. Vote, vote, vote. I’m pretty passionate about that.

 

[Sherry_G]

You could write in a candidate of your choice, thereby exercising your right to vote and making a political statement of support for a person who measures up to your standards.

You may even wish to consider becoming a candidate yourself? Voting is not only a right, it is a responsibility. In addition, once any politician is in office, please continue to follow up and voice your opinion about their work, such as learning about any bill under consideration and speaking up in letter or email about your concerns. My local and state representatives do not represent my views, however I continue to follow their work and let them know what I think about the issues. We can always make a difference, just by being involved. Don’t just sit on the sidelines and say or do nothing, please. Speak your mind, respectfully and intelligently. Who knows what your opinions expressed might accomplish. And don’t forget to pray for our politicians, too.

 

[Nec5]

If you choose never to vote again, you give up your right to complain about ANY aspect of poltics.

That’s an old argument that never really worked. If all the candidates are essentially “for” the system and you want real change, then your vote does not really matter. It’s like choosing between dog vomit and pig vomit. No thanks. And yes, I do still get to complain.

 

[Mark77]

**If you take no action to stop grave evil like abortion, then you are a part of the problem, not the solution!

There are no perfect candidates, we must select the “least awful” & prioritize them by their stance on issues like the Right to life, which is preeminent as defined by the teaching of the Church.

Social justice, caring for the poor etc. is a key tenant of our Catholic Faith, but is secondary to ensuring every person has the right to life, from conception to natural birth.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC);

The inalienable right to life of every innocent human individual is a constitutive element of a civil society and its legislation:

"The inalienable rights of the person must be recognized and respected by civil society and the political authority. These human rights depend neither on single individuals nor on parents; nor do they represent a concession made by society and the state; they belong to human nature and are inherent in the person by virtue of the creative act from which the person took his origin. Among such fundamental rights one should mention in this regard every human being’s right to life and physical integrity from the moment of conception until death."80

"The moment a positive law deprives a category of human beings of the protection which civil legislation ought to accord them, the state is denying the equality of all before the law. When the state does not place its power at the service of the rights of each citizen, and in particular of the more vulnerable, the very foundations of a state based on law are undermined. . . . As a consequence of the respect and protection which must be ensured for the unborn child from the moment of conception, the law must provide appropriate penal sanctions for every deliberate violation of the child’s rights."81(CCC 2273)

CA has a great resource “Voters Guide for Serious Catholics!”

shop.catholic.com/product.php?productid=16453&cat=274&page=1
**
Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

mark

 

[St_Francis]

I’m a staunch Democrat who disagrees with almost every aspect of the Republican platform except life issues, which I understand are non-negotiable for Catholics. I also understand that, barring extreme circumstances, I’m not permitted to vote for a candidate who is not pro-life.

Unless an extremely moderate Republican comes along (which seems unlikely, the way both parties are being co-opted by their extremists), I can’t see myself ever voting Republican.

So I guess that means I will abstain from voting forever, or until the Dems nominate someone pro-life. (And I see the chances of that happening are just about nil.)

From other posts I’ve read, I suspect the overwhelming majority of posters on these boards are politically conservative, but is there anyone else out there in my boat who has basically stopped voting?

There is a good argument to be made for not voting, which is that you find yourself morally unable to vote.

For example, I probably come closest to being Republican, but I disagree with a lot of what they do and say they want to do, etc. But I am totally against the Democrats, even without the moral issues of homosexual “marriage,” abortion, and the like.

But suppose Giuliani had won the R primaries? I would not have been able to vote for him, and I would be unable to vote for Obama. Should I sin by voting, if I do not see a proportionate reason *for *voting for one of the two?

And I think my husband has only voted once… he hates 'em all!

 

[Wowbagger]

I’ll disclaim this by saying that I am a staunch conservative, and I am lucky enough to agree with almost everything in the Republican party platform. (Even though I despise or distrust a great many of its actual politicians.) However, I also sympathize very much with your position.

My mother was a Democrat for most of her life. Even though she was a Catholic and understood the voting principles in general, she couldn’t bring herself to vote for a Republican, and pulled the lever for Carter, Mondale, and Dukakis in '80, '84, and '88. It wasn’t until 1992 that that changed. Frustrated with the anti-life path the Democrats had taken, she attended a Democratic party caucus (we live in Minnesota, go caucuses!), caucused for the pro-life movement, got elected as a state delegate, and then got elected again as a national delegate, and went to the 1992 Democratic National Convention at Madison Square Garden in New York City, ready to cast her tiny protest vote for pro-life Democrat Gov. Bob Casey of Pennsylvania.

The Democratic Party wanted a unanimous nomination vote for Clinton. The pro-life delegation was, to put it simply, unacceptable. Their wardrobes were vandalized, they were harassed, they were expelled from their seats near the front row, and, in the end, they were physically beaten up by male heavies from the Minnesota delegation, then thrown out of the convention because death threats had been called in against them. (Walter Mondale sat in the row in front of the pro-lifers throughout the entire assault, and said nothing at all. He was a man without honor.)

So that was the end of my mom’s sojourn as a Democrat. She conceded that (1) the Democrats were irredeemably pro-abortion, and (2) the Democrats really weren’t the nice people she’d always imagined them to be. She started voting Republican in the next election, and gradually took on some Republican views, like tax cutting and Reaganism… but even today she has an entire lifetime of liberal political philosophy simmering just under the surface, and occasionally breaks out with some unexpected opinion that makes all her fashionable conservative friends look at her funny. (For instance, just tonight she was saying what a great idea it was for the local government to circumvent a referendum and impose a sales tax on a county in order to construct a giant downtown sports complex with government money. She’s brilliant, really, but I just don’t understand that point-of-view.) Even today, I am sympathetic to those who, like you, 2cats, are stuck with a choose between one party you think is basically good, but murderously mistaken on a few amazingly important issue, and another party that is actually composed of evil people.

I told that whole story just as a way of saying: I’m not in your boat, 2cats, but I get it.

My first recommendation is to reconsider Republicanism. It’s a bit broken down at the moment, and I’m not all that sure that winning the midterms is going to help fix what’s wrong with our party… but, at its best, Republicanism is a beautiful philosophy of governance that elegantly intertwines the limited government created by the U.S. Constitution with the principles of social justice mandated by Jesus Christ, to create a prosperous, happy, healthy, and free People. If you give the GOP a second, closer look, and you realize that it’s actually a great party, then your problem is solved: you can vote GOP and like it.

My second recommendation, if the first fails, is to vote Republican anyway. There are a lot of really important issues today, from immigration to health care, poverty to the wars overseas, and the budget crisis. What Washington does about those issues matters enormously, and lives – real lives – hang in the balance. Nonetheless, against the vast ocean of evil that is legal abortion in this country, everything else, even if you wrapped it up in a great big multi-issue ball and threw it at Rush Limbaugh’s head, all of it would add up to a raindrop in that ocean. In a race between a pro-life Democrat who was wrong about everything else and a pro-abortion Republican I completely agreed with, I would unhesitatingly vote for the Democrat. (This actually happened in the Minnesota governor’s race in 1990.) Abortion, as my dad likes to say, is more than one major issue among several. It is not even enough to say that it is the biggest issue at present. Abortion is, both by its nature and by its scope, the dominating political issue. It is the alpha and the omega of political discourse in the twenty-first century. It must end. If that means you hold your nose and vote for somebody who’s going to hurt the country or the state in a dozen other ways… I think you should do it.

However, you don’t have to do it. The bishops have made some pretty clear statements that leave you and your conscience some leeway. Another option is to vote third-party, or to write in a candidate, or to run for office yourself. You can do that if you simply cannot bring yourself to vote for a Republican. I think you’re wrong on several counts with that… but, you can take any of the alternative options and remain a Catholic in good conscience. What’s more, if enough people feel the same way you do, eventually those third party candidates are going to become serious contenders. You may not feel like it at the time, but your protest vote does matter… especially in these shaky times, when confidence in the two parties is lower than it has been since Reconstruction.

[CONTINUED]

 

[Wowbagger]

I think the one thing you should not do is not vote. We are all called to participate in our civil government however we can, and, in a democratic republic, voting is the fundamental way in which we do that. I don’t think I can absolutely say that withdrawal is the wrong option… and I can even think of circumstances where withdrawal is the only right option (for example, right before the start of a civil war fought to protect the rights of slaves and/or the unborn)… but it’s certainly the option I’d be least comfortable with, as a Catholic. Withdrawal from the political process is for very extreme circumstances, and you still have alternative options in the third-party and write-in candidates.

I hope that helps. Good luck! And thank you for heeding the Church’s teaching and refusing to cast a vote on behalf of the abortionists… even though you agree with them on so many other issues. That takes courage and integrity. I’m pleased to see a pro-life Democrat still worthy of the name.

 

[Tsuwano]

I’m a staunch Democrat who disagrees with almost every aspect of the Republican platform except life issues, which I understand are non-negotiable for Catholics. I also understand that, barring extreme circumstances, I’m not permitted to vote for a candidate who is not pro-life.

Unless an extremely moderate Republican comes along (which seems unlikely, the way both parties are being co-opted by their extremists), I can’t see myself ever voting Republican.

So I guess that means I will abstain from voting forever, or until the Dems nominate someone pro-life. (And I see the chances of that happening are just about nil.)

From other posts I’ve read, I suspect the overwhelming majority of posters on these boards are politically conservative, but is there anyone else out there in my boat who has basically stopped voting?

We definitely share the same boat, though I refuse to stop exercising my political rights. I tend to vote for individuals rather than along party lines. Coming from a state that is traditionally Democratic and yet conservative in many ways, I haven’t found it too difficult to find candidates I can support on state and local levels. It is a bit more difficult on the national level and I have sat out presidential elections in the past.

 

[JohnDamian]

If there is no candidate who you can morally support destroy your ballot; or stand for office (/encourage others to stand for office).

Democracy stops working when people fail to exersise their rights.

 

[Rascalking]

That’s an old argument that never really worked. If all the candidates are essentially “for” the system and you want real change, then your vote does not really matter. It’s like choosing between dog vomit and pig vomit. No thanks. And yes, I do still get to complain.

Complain all you want, you just won’t be taken seriously by most reasonable people.

If you want real change, choose a political party and work from the bottom up.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I’m a staunch Democrat who disagrees with almost every aspect of the Republican platform except life issues, which I understand are non-negotiable for Catholics. I also understand that, barring extreme circumstances, I’m not permitted to vote for a candidate who is not pro-life.

Unless an extremely moderate Republican comes along (which seems unlikely, the way both parties are being co-opted by their extremists), I can’t see myself ever voting Republican.

So I guess that means I will abstain from voting forever, or until the Dems nominate someone pro-life. (And I see the chances of that happening are just about nil.)

From other posts I’ve read, I suspect the overwhelming majority of posters on these boards are politically conservative, but is there anyone else out there in my boat who has basically stopped voting?

I’m in a similar, but not exactly similar, situation. I was a “cradle Democrat”. Always voted Democrat. Held office in the party. Worked elections, and did a fair job of it. I’ll admit, I was more of a “Harry Truman”, “John Kennedy”, “Scoop Jackson”, “Stuart Symington” kind of Democrat. But that was part of the party, and a big part of it. Even most of it once upon a time.

I could no longer support the party after abortion became its chief religion. I no longer vote democrat or support them. I vote for Republicans, and even support some of them with my money and time. But I didn’t become a Republican, mainly, I guess, out of a sense of duty to the “Democrats of Old” that, to me, represented party ideals. To me, it was a matter of priorities, like this:

1. Abortion and human vivisection (fetal stem cell research) are #1. The Popes support this position and, even if I was not Catholic, I would consider it #1 because of what I think of as the “Dracula factor” in it. I think it’s dehumanizing and very dangerous to society.
2. “Social justice”. It took me awhile to realize that the Democrat party of my activist days no longer exists. It has been taken over by far left elitists who really don’t care a thing about the truly needy and never do a thing for them anymore. I truly believe that the Dem party of my activist days was. But it absolutely isn’t anymore. All it’s interested in now, (besides genital politics) is buying constituencies among the middle class and buying corporate contributors with tax dollars.

So, while the Repubs don’t do anything for the truly needy either, and are just as popular with big business as the Dems are, I return to point #1, and that gives me no choice in the matter. I feel it is a moral imperative to vote against abortion, human vivisection and its supporters without fail. That includes Dems and Repubs. But there are few of the latter, and virtually all of the former.

So, does that make me a “negative voter”? I guess it does. But sometimes it’s more important to oppose a huge evil than it is to vote in favor of something.

 

[2cats]

Thanks to everyone for your responses! I had never seriously considered the write-in option but I will certainly give it some thought. And I especially appreciate the posts from conservatives who took the time to respond kindly and thoughtfully even though we disagree politically. I have a lot to think about.

 

[manualman]

I’m almost exactly like Ridgerunner, minus the having held office.

Watch and participate at the LOWEST level of Democratic politics available and do your best to introduce a pro-life voice. Here in Illinois it wasn’t THAT long ago I was able to vote for a decent D governor’s candidate for office (Glen Poshard). He lost, of course, to a crook. But I tried.

No reason you can’t vote for decent human being Democrats in primaries even if it is a Hail Mary move. Volunteer to help in campagins too. Prayers get answered!

 

[Ridgerunner]

I’m almost exactly like Ridgerunner, minus the having held office.

Watch and participate at the LOWEST level of Democratic politics available and do your best to introduce a pro-life voice. Here in Illinois it wasn’t THAT long ago I was able to vote for a decent D governor’s candidate for office (Glen Poshard). He lost, of course, to a crook. But I tried.

No reason you can’t vote for decent human being Democrats in primaries even if it is a Hail Mary move. Volunteer to help in campagins too. Prayers get answered!

I once felt the same way. That is, until my wife, who held statewide party office, had the temerity to give a speech to party committee people in which she encouraged including and supporting prolife Democrats within the party’s embrace. She was later told by the Central Committee never to do that again because it was “divisive”. “Divisive???” In other words, there was only room for abortion supporters, as your own experience demonstrates.

A Democrat candidate for state office came to me shortly after my wife and I resigned our offices, seeking our support. We did know a lot of people. I asked him his position on abortion. “Well” he said, “you have to go along with those people or they’ll ensure your defeat, even if they have to support your opponent to do it.” He said he, himself was prolife, but he had to go along.

I told him I couldn’t support him, and supported his genuinely prolife opponent instead.

To me, that what you have to do. You oppose evil and those who promote evil by their actions. To do otherwise is sharing in the evil yourself.

One last thing. We used to have a saying among party workers that a person who didn’t vote or who threw away his vote on a third party candidate, was “casting half a vote for the opposition”. If you’re prolife and waste your vote by not voting for the prolife candidate, you’re helping the forces of abortion. That’s just a fact.

 

[manualman]

One last thing. We used to have a saying among party workers that a person who didn’t vote or who threw away his vote on a third party candidate, was “casting half a vote for the opposition”. If you’re prolife and waste your vote by not voting for the prolife candidate, you’re helping the forces of abortion. That’s just a fact.

I used to feel THAT way. Until I reflected on George HW Bush’s presidency. (Not Dubya). I’m pretty convinced that his pro-life position was phony politics. I’m not convinced that Republicans are unable to find principled pro-lifers without a public record on the matter when they need to. Souter and Kennedy convinced me that at least certain elements in the republican party are playing us prolifers for fools. They WANT abortion legal to guarantee our constituency (the same way some cynical Democrats WANT minorities to be doomed to perpetual victimhood and thus Democratic constituency). For all his faults, W Bush seemed better than that.

Next time I think I detect a phony republican pro-lifer I will NOT automatically give him my vote. I expect consistent pro-life track record (which is why you won’t catch me voting Giuliani or Romney). If I believe I have good reason to believe somebody is a phony, I WILL vote third party or even write-in. If enough of us do so, we will weed out the phonies (because they will notice the surge in 3rd party voters and see what they lost).

 

[1234]

If you choose never to vote again, you give up your right to complain about ANY aspect of poltics. Vote, vote, vote. I’m pretty passionate about that.

Agree. You can vote in local elections, for ex. State elections. Abortion is legal by Roe v. Wade, which is national.

As for national elections, you should refrain from voting if your beliefs re abortion trump your beliefs regarding a government’s support of war, attitudes towards social justice, available health care, affordable education for all, and support of the Constitution and Bill of Rights. If your concern for those unborn outweighs your concern for those who have been already born, then stop voting.

People who support reproductive rights feel that criminalizing abortion will merely drive it underground and not decrease its frequency, only its danger. They believe that the most effective ways to eliminate abortion are with sex education and contraception,as well as developing a strong social support system for single mothers, as so many studies have shown, and which is the practice in Europe. People who want to criminalize abortion often oppose sex education, contraception and a strong social network, which makes no sense whatsoever.

Romania criminalized both contraception and abortion. It ended up with orphanages teeming with irreversibly damaged children. Is this what you want?

 

[manualman]

1. People who support reproductive rights feel that criminalizing abortion will merely drive it underground and not decrease its frequency, only its danger. They believe that the most effective ways to eliminate abortion are with sex education and contraception,as well as developing a strong social support system for single mothers, as so many studies have shown, and which is the practice in Europe. People who want to criminalize abortion often oppose sex education, contraception and a strong social network, which makes no sense whatsoever.
2. Romania criminalized both contraception and abortion. It ended up with orphanages teeming with irreversibly damaged children. Is this what you want?

1. Except that your premise is demonstrably flawed. The rate of crisis pregnancy, promiscuity and unwed mothers has CONSISTENTLY been proportional with the availability and cultural respectability of contraception and the amount of “values - free” sex education provided to the populace. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. We only had different results when we had a culture that respected sex as the purview of married couples and expected others to live by that code.
2. False dilemma. Romania was a country in civilizational collapse around the time of the fall of communism. Hardly transferable to America (yet). Abortion was illegal and/or punishable for the vast majority of Western civilization history. Our problems snowballed AFTER it was legalized. I’m not aware of anyone here arguing for contraception to be outlawed. True contraception (not abortifacients) doesn’t violate anyones fundamental human rights. It should be outlawed, but only when the culture debating the idea has matured to the point when most of the people in it recognize if for the destructive force that it is. Kinda like cigarettes (though we aren’t quite there yet either).

 

[1234]

Unwed pregnancy and abortion in countries without contraception and legal abortion was never measured accurately. Nor was infanticide and illegal abortion NOR the number of mothers who died after an illegal abortion. The reason that Brazil legalized abortion was because so many women were dying from illegal abortions. The rate of illegal abortions without maternal death can never be measured accurately. Unwed pregnancy and illegal abortion has been rampant in Catholic Europe, Mexico, Central and South America until the 20th century. And yes, the RCC would like to make not only abortion but also contraception illegal, as it thinks that both are immoral and the RCC feels free to try to impose its moral attitudes on non-Catholics. Fortunately, the US Constitution forbids this.

Those supporting legal abortion differ only in strategy from those opposing abortion. Everyone opposes abortion. But criminalizing abortion will only drive it underground where NO ONE will be able to estimate the number of abortions performed. It will also create a huge market for those who can skirt the law, not only for illegal abortions, but abortions in clinics on Indian reservations and rivers, like casinos, which have created legal precedents, also in Canada, Mexico and the Caribbean. It would be impossible to try to prevent medical abortions, which are increasingly common. The drugs used are generic, manufactured in the US, and safe. As they are not used specifically for abortion, their manufacture cannot be prevented.

The reason we don’t outlaw cigarettes is that it can’t be enforced. This country learned something through Prohibition. After alcohol was made illegal, its consumption skyrocketed. There were thousands of illegal speakeasies in Manhattan alone and millions throughout the US. At the same time, the US lost its valuable alcohol-related taxes, which were important to a nation impoverished by the Great Depression. Prohibition failed immediately, and the constitutional amendment which enabled it was eventually repealed, the only instance in our country’s history. This country has enough unenforceable laws. One of the main reasons marijuana is being legalized (through making it ‘medicinal’) is to end the farce of trying to enforce its illegality, and to try to undercut the immensely wealthy and powerful marijuana-based drug cartels in Mexico.

As in Prohibition, if abortion were made illegal, hundreds to thousands of clinics would spring up through various loopholes, producing millions of illegal abortions, and making a lot of people rich. Illegal abortion would be far more lucrative, and a lot less safe, than legal abortion.