Never ending torture in hell

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When people in their lives and at their death reject god they reject everything that goes with him such as beauty, love, joy, peace, mercy, understanding, and other holy and good people. (Howard storm nde experiencer).

They accept for companions those fallen angels who likewise rejected god.

Of interest is that those who served satan as satanist the devil torments even more in hell according to Mary Agreda in her book city of god.

Bk
 
City of God was written by St. Augustine. Did the author you reference comment on Augustine’s book or write a book with the same title?

The Catholic Church teaches that we do not KNOW with certainty that anyone is in hell. I would not risk it myself, but the teaching is that we can’t know with certainty.
 
City of God was written by St. Augustine. Did the author you reference comment on Augustine’s book or write a book with the same title?

The Catholic Church teaches that we do not KNOW with certainty that anyone is in hell. I would not risk it myself, but the teaching is that we can’t know with certainty.
BlueKnight is talking about Ven. Mary of Agreda’s book, “The Mystical City of God”, which is a compilation of her many visions. 😉

While the Church teaches that we cannot know for certain if any particular person is in Hell (such as Judas, or Hitler, etc.), we certainly do know that there are people who are already in hell, along with the fallen angels. CCC 1035 "The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire."617 The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs. "
 
City of God was written by St. Augustine. Did the author you reference comment on Augustine’s book or write a book with the same title?

The Catholic Church teaches that we do not KNOW with certainty that anyone is in hell. I would not risk it myself, but the teaching is that we can’t know with certainty.
The Mystical City of God
( A awesome book by the way ) 🙂

themostholyrosary.com/mystical-city.htm
 
BlueKnight is talking about Ven. Mary of Agreda’s book, “The Mystical City of God”, which is a compilation of her many visions. 😉

While the Church teaches that we cannot know for certain if any particular person is in Hell (such as Judas, or Hitler, etc.), we certainly do know that there are people who are already in hell, along with the fallen angels. CCC 1035 "The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire."617 The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs. "
Thank you for clearing up the book title. I appreciate it. Obviously, I’m not familiar with that book. Thank you, too, Techno.

The teaching you pointed out does say, of course, that those who die with a mortal sin on their soul go to hell, and I believe that, too. However, the Church teaches that we do not know if people ask for God’s forgiveness with their dying breath, and if they do, if God forgives them.

I certainly believe hell does exist, and I do believe the fallen angels are there.
 
And this torment is a turning point for many people IF they realize and accept the great gift we have been given through the forgiveness of Christ. When all consolation is taken away and there is nothing left but your own depravity and the cross, God has surely got your attention.
There is no amount of sin that Christ has not conquered with his sacrifice.
Yes the turning point. We have the ability to regret and experience that in life. It is part of the healthy fear of God or rather in rejecting Him that partly leads us to accept His fix. We are drawn by His goodness and He frees us from facing any regret about the consequences of rejecting Him.
 
Why does it matter if the story is a parable or is factually “true”. The story is told by Truth himself.
Amen. And most if not all parables use factual settings. Still, a direct story of an actual event may help some accept it’s reality for what the facts are but also what it teaches. No excuses that some use with parables, that the lesson is more important than the make up story and its details.
 
I don’t believe the OP was questioning the eternal nature of Hell, but whether it’s constant torture of the type “favored” by some evangelicals. Certainly, eternal separation from God would mean eternal suffering, but of a different type than, for example, that depicted in a Bosch painting.
Well as you can see, the OP does question the eternalness of it. But yes, for a moment I thought maybe he was just questioning of torture and its manipulation , but it is more. Not sure what is favored by evangelicals or their constant torture, but the bosch paintings have always fascinated me (do not see the firey torment in them but more reaping what you sow stuff).
 
Thank you for clearing up the book title. I appreciate it. Obviously, I’m not familiar with that book. Thank you, too, Techno.
You’re very welcome. I was familiar with the book because my sister-in-law had a copy that was so dogeared, highlighted, and underlined, with the margins filled with little notes and comments, that it was completely falling apart. She absolutely loved that book. It was one of her favorite (of many) sources of daily meditation.
The teaching you pointed out does say, of course, that those who die with a mortal sin on their soul go to hell, and I believe that, too. However, the Church teaches that we do not know if people ask for God’s forgiveness with their dying breath, and if they do, if God forgives them.

I certainly believe hell does exist, and I do believe the fallen angels are there.
Exactly. That’s why we should never say anything like, “I think so and so must have gone to hell.”, because we have no way of knowing what happened to them at the moment of death. Only God can judge what happens to any soul.
 
What official Catholic Source claims the Church has abandoned the eternal torments of hell?
I didn’t say CC abandoned hell. I said it abandoned eternal torture.

Among Catholics: Pope John Paul II
This is a statement from Pope John Paul II made on July 28, 1999. Hell is not a place of fire and eternal suffering, he says. He describes it as separation from God, chosen by people using their free will, and only symbolically described as a fiery place of torment as a strongly portrayed reminder of the freedom from death believers have. He refers to the descriptions of torment as “improper use of Biblical images”
 
What official Catholic Source claims the Church has abandoned the eternal torments of hell?
None, because it hasn’t.

The Church is just expressing the reality of hell in a more profound way. First and foremost it is not a punishment by a vengeful God. Hell is chosen by those who go there and God loved everyone of them. Christ died for them. Flames, and the like, are a human expression of a deeper suffering. As others have said, imagine complete and utter separation from God for eternity.

Purgatory often suffers from the same images of fire and punishment. Our suffering in purgatory is the realization of just how much we have offended God through our sins. In order to convey the degree of this suffering images such as burning in flames are used.

So I don’t think the position of the Church has changed, just the way it chooses to express it, which, hopefully, brings us closer to the truth.
 
Thank you for clearing up the book title. I appreciate it. Obviously, I’m not familiar with that book. Thank you, too, Techno.

.
The Mystical City of God: Life of the Virgin Mother of God, manifested to Sister Mary of Jesus of Agreda:

Excerpt :

The dragon in agonizing efforts to escape,
said : O Woman, give me leave to hurl myself into hell,
for I cannot bear thy presence, nor will I ever venture to
come before Thee as long as Thou livest upon this world.
Thou hast conquered, O Woman, Thou hast conquered,
and I acknowledge thy power in Him who has made
Thee his Mother. Omnipotent God, chastise us Thyself,
since we cannot resist Thee

but do not send thy punishments
through a Woman of a nature so inferior to ours.
Her charity consumes us, her humility crushes us, and
She is in all things a living manifestation of thy mercy
for men. This is a torment surpassing many others.
Assist me, ye demons! But alas, what can our united
efforts avail against this Woman, since all our power
cannot ever deliver us from her presence until She her
self casts us forth? O foolish children of Adam, who
follow me, forsaking life for the sake of death, truth or
falsehood? What absurdity and insanity
is yours, (so in despair I must confess), since you have in your midst
and belonging to your own nature the incarnate Word
and this Woman ? Greater is your ingratitude than mine
and this Woman forces me to confess the truths, which
I abhor with all my heart. Cursed be my resolve to
persecute this Daughter of Adam, who so torments and
crushes me!
themostholyrosary.com/mystical-city.htm
 
Does anyone really say God tortures people in hell ? I do not even see that in rich man and Lazarus. That they are suffering yes, but do folks say God is doing it ?

My take on it is this.The more important and crucial saving someone is, the more important and crucial is the saving act (Calvary). The bigger the crime, the bigger the consequence and the bigger price for justice. You want to lessen the consequence ? Ok, that lessens the crime, and lessens the price needed to get out of it.

The bigger the dignity and nature of God and man, the bigger the consequence for sinning against those natures. Lessening the consequence lessens the dignity of those sinned against.
So you are saying that because of the dignity of God, created beings that fall short of salvation are tortured mercilessly for ever and ever in burning flames. Doesn’t this completely barbaric and sadistic act make God worse than Hitler and the Holocaust look like a day at the beach? I think we can agree that is not possible. Wouldn’t complete destruction be more humane? Also there is enough scriptures to support a second death final destruction without never ending torture. The verses that support eternal actions can be interpreted both ways. CT
 
Does it mean that the suffering is somehow less intense, or not eternal?
No, scriptures are clear that hell is eternal either by means of complete destruction, meaning total death (with no hope of resurrection) or by means of a place separate from God which would be awful in itself. My problem is with using images of fire literally like Dante’s inferno type world. That kind of torture lessens the goodness and justness of God which we both know is impossible.
CT
 
God doesn’t “send” anyone to Hell. He sent His Son to die for us just so we could be saved from Hell. But He did give us a free will and so “we” choose where we spend Eternity, NOT God. Eternity without GOD will be Hell. Seems we love to “blame” everything we don’t agree with on GOD. If it doesn’t go our way, we blame it on God. Are we ever THANKFUl for what HE has done for us? God Bless, Memaw
I agree with everything you said. What I am having a problem with is the pervasive teaching, esp in evangelical and pentecostal that God created a fire infested torture chamber called hell where people are tortured forever. This is unethical to the extreme and to ascribe that kind of behavior to God doesn’t make sense. The same God who said live your enemy, do good to those who persecute you would do just the opposite to those who fall short of salvation? I am not saying God doesn’t’ have a provision for people who reject Him, I am just saying that what ever that provision is it would be ethical and just (not cosmic overkill).

CT
 
I agree with everything you said. What I am having a problem with is the pervasive teaching, esp in evangelical and pentecostal that God created a fire infested torture chamber called hell where people are tortured forever. This is unethical to the extreme and to ascribe that kind of behavior to God doesn’t make sense. The same God who said live your enemy, do good to those who persecute you would do just the opposite to those who fall short of salvation? I am not saying God doesn’t’ have a provision for people who reject Him, I am just saying that what ever that provision is it would be ethical and just (not cosmic overkill).

CT
Evangelicals simply go by what the Bible says, and that’s it. We don’t know exactly what Hell is like, and what the fire represents but can you really criticize Christians for just accepting what the Bible teaches?

Rev 20:10 and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever…14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Mark 9:43 And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire. …47 And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell,

48 'where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched. ’

Rev 21:8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death. "
 
You do realize God is INFINITE Goodness and Love, right? Separation from God is separation from all that is good (besides merely existing, given that the soul is immortal). It’s a hell of a lot worse than you seem to be thinking it is.
Good point, perhaps the scriptures that teach second or final death are the more ethical after all and that’s the way to really look at this.
 
Evangelicals simply go by what the Bible says, and that’s it. We don’t know exactly what Hell is like, and what the fire represents but can you really criticize Christians for just accepting what the Bible teaches?

Rev 20:10 and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever…14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Mark 9:43 And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire. …47 And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell,

48 'where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched. ’

Rev 21:8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death. "
That you mentioned Mk 9:43. Do Evangelicals believe it too that they should cut off their hands or tear out their eyes when they sin? Interesting there.
 
That you mentioned Mk 9:43. Do Evangelicals believe it too that they should cut off their hands or tear out their eyes when they sin? Interesting there.
Catholic beliefs (from what I’ve learned from this forum) are much different than Evangelical beliefs in terms of justification and sanctification. We believe that it would be better to cut off our arm that causes us to sin than to have the arm causing us to sin. However, it starts with an arm or an eye, but how much must one cut out before their very own evil heart?

We also believe that none of us has the Faith and perfection as Jesus, but we don’t deny that He was serious. God would prefer us to enter Heaven armless than with sin. Likewise Jesus calls us to give away everything and follow Him; again we’re not doing this because we recognize we can never attain Salvation by our own works.

And finally, odd that you were only interested in what I quoted from Mark.
 
I don’t know what you think I said to make you think that I agree with you in any way, because I absolutely do not. I simply quoted Telstar’s post from the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which shows that Hell is an eternal separation from God that is described as “eternal fire.” Please re-read Telstar’s post to see where I am coming from, because what the Catechism teaches is the official teaching of the Catholic Church, as reviled by God Himself. For Jesus actually said, in regard to the wicked, “Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!”

May God, the Blessed Trinity, always enlighten you! 🙂
Yes, I misunderstood your quote. I will need to research apparent conflicts between what I am seeing in the Catechism and scripture. (I am curious though, you interpret everything in the catechism as directly from the mouth of God, something like a divine dictation?) I am not being facetious here but just trying to understand how other follow their faith. Thanks in advance for your sharing your faith.
 
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