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tabycat
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It was Danny Thomes, when he was a young actor and getting few, if any, acting jobs, prayed to St Jude and promised to build a hospital for children if he was succeful.
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AlanFromWichita
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[BIBLEDRB]mark 4:9[/BIBLEDRB]
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tabycat
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There were 2 or 3 “never fail prayers” poster earlier today, I did post on them. Just calling them ‘Catholic chain letters’. I doubt has/will do any good.
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Nimzovik
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Yes… Interesting that…It was Danny Thomes, when he was a young actor and getting few, if any, acting jobs, prayed to St Jude and promised to build a hospital for children if he was succeful.
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AlanFromWichita
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Yes, and they work best with a healthy side order of Catholic Guilt.There were 2 or 3 “never fail prayers” poster earlier today, I did post on them. Just calling them ‘Catholic chain letters’. I doubt has/will do any good.
Alan
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JRKH
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Nimzovik
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Hmmmmmmmm… I observe you are not dead yet… Perhaps…
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JRKH
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Precisely my point…
Prayers do not fail…Therefore saying that this or that specific prayer (set of words said x number of times) has “never known to fail”…Is a redundant and totally unnecessary statement…
Correct - All these pamphlets need is to have this silly statement removed. Instead they should espouse the true principle of prayer which is to submit our will to God’s and be willing to accept whatever He decides is best for us.
This is one of the things I’ve noticed about these prayers…(the few I’ve seen)…none ever contain the phrase “not my will but thine be done” (or something similar)…
So yea - these pamphlets could be wonderful if they promoted good sound spiritual and prayer practice…
Peace
James
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JRKH
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Correct…But I never see the rosary “advertized” with the claim, “never known to fail”.
See - to a certain degree we’ve expanded the conversation to include things that are fine and legitimate. The Church provides indulgences for certain prayers and so forth…All legitimate and above board…But they don’t have to advertize “never known to fail” because the Church knows that no prayer ever fails…
So that is my only point…the “claim” that is attached to these things…these "chain prayer’ thingees…
Peace
James
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JRKH
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Yea -CT…I’m afraid that this thread kinda took off in a couple of strange directions…I never intended it to include legitimate promises…
My sole purpose was to poke fun at the “Advertizing”…“this prayer never fails”…Well “Duh”
…Prayers never fail…Peace
James
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AlanFromWichita
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I wonder how many novenas were said in support of v. against the candidate who became president. We could see whose prayers worked.Yea -CT…I’m afraid that this thread kinda took off in a couple of strange directions…I never intended it to include legitimate promises…
My sole purpose was to poke fun at the “Advertizing”…“this prayer never fails”…Well “Duh”
Peace
James
(I really don’t want an answer
)Alan
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Nimzovik
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All this brings up another aspect of prayer methinks…
If we are praying *within *the Lord’s will (say the unification of all Christians) should we not have faith (confidence) in the efficacy of the prayer?
Are we not told to keep banging on the door of heaven so to speak?
What is the point of prayer - to a degree- if we can not expect results?
When we ask for food - should we expect a stone or a snake?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm…
If we are praying *within *the Lord’s will (say the unification of all Christians) should we not have faith (confidence) in the efficacy of the prayer?
Are we not told to keep banging on the door of heaven so to speak?
What is the point of prayer - to a degree- if we can not expect results?
When we ask for food - should we expect a stone or a snake?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm…
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AlanFromWichita
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This is a great point, I think. When I’m praying for a kind and understanding heart, or to help understand other people better, I don’t have to wonder if it’s God’s will.
Alan
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benjammin
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So here’s my question. Does the clergy promote this. There is was a priest at my Catholic High School who was a very holy and young priest and since then has become a very prominent speaker in my diocese. Anyway he told us that if we said a certain novena (I forget which one) that we would get anything we wanted. He even mentioned how he got his car because of this prayer (though he mentioned how his brother was a big help). So is the clergy behind some of these prayers? I’m all for praying, but praying for material success, especially when it is something completely non related to faith, seems superstitious to me. Am I wrong to feel this way.
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JRKH
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Simply put…It depends…
It is true that we can ask for anything, but it is equally true…even MORE true…that we should structure our prayer life on the Our Father…Look at how this prayer is structured.
Call on and praise God
Ask that His will be done
Only then should one ask for things…basic needs, forgiveness, protection…
This all fits with what Nimzovik mentions a couple of posts up about praying within the Lord’s Will. Christ Himself asked not to be crucified…but added, “thy will and not mine…”
Novena’s are wonderful things - don’t get me wrong. But where they fit is in the discipline of them. Like fasting or some other spiritual sacrifice a Novena calls one’s mind to God for a specific purpose or intention. But whether the answer will be what you expect or hope for…well…that is why you need to be open to God’s will.
And tied to this is that we should seek to conform our will to God’s. The more conformed we are to Him the less likely it is that we will ask for things that He doesn’t want us to have.
Make sense?
Peace
James
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JRKH
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Amen brother Amen…
The key in what you say is “praying within the Lord’s Will”, for truly that is what we need to seek. To conform ourselves to the Lord…to God for we are told that we need to be perfect (in Love) as our Heavenly Father is perfect. (Mt 5:48)
The more we conform to God’s will, the more our prayers will fit with His desires for us and the more likely that we will get precisely what we pray for.
Peace
James
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maltmom
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This is the part that so many forget. When the answer is no I try to remember that when God says no that means he has something better planned for me.
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BobCatholic
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If God says no to a request (that is for something good), the prayer has failed.
A prayer for something evil will always fail.
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Nimzovik
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Hmmmmm … again.
If I recall correctly, in the Diary of St. Faustina Our Lord tells Faustina that when we pray for the conversion of sinners (How could the conversion of sinners be anything other than God’s Holy Will?) it is a prayer that is always heard. Soooo… should we be able to assure ourselves that The Lord will ‘save’ the person we pray for? Should we not be granted a degree of confidence (assurance) from heaven? ( A prayer that never fails
)Of course the conundrum is that the conversion of any particular (or general for that matter) sinner is also contingent upon the will of the sinner.
Hmmmmmmmmm…
Yet the prayer is “heard”…yes? We do not choose God - He chooses us - right? So the sinner(s) we pray for should be saved. Yes? How… circular.
Hmmmmmm…
Like praying for a personal healing of own selves. I have known people to pray for years upon years to be healed. So **when **is the answer to a prayer for a self healing a “No?” Is it a “No” just because it has not happened (the healing) in say, 20 years?
Methinks not. Why? Because St. Paul prayed for a healing and did not stop until he got an answer. A literal answer. A definite - “No” from heaven - not only a “No” but also a reason as to why the answer is “No”.
Soooooooooooo… Methinks no prayer is wasted. At the very least it refines the person on some level or other while praying.
But the Big question for me is … how can I pray with -what was it called(?) expectant Faith(?), with confidence, if I always have to add “if it is heaven’s will?” Of course the conversion of sinners is Heaven’s will - yes? At what point do I stop praying for a particular sinner and actually rely on Heaven (confidence) to grant the prayer of the conversion of a sinner?
I guess… I stop when I am actually** told **to stop, by heaven - much like when St. Paul was told why he was not healed.
I just know that, in the battlefield of prayer, I am also so very capable of mistaking ‘feelings’ for an answer from Heaven. Self delusion is a very scary thing.
All this confusion is compounded of course, by having grown up in the sixties…
Deeeeeeppp Sighhhhhhh…
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Nimzovik
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It is enough to make me knaw off my big left toe. ‘He who must not be named’ as one poster put it, is President once again.I wonder how many novenas were said in support of v. against the candidate who became president. We could see whose prayers worked.
(I really don’t want an answer
Alan
I too prayed my self dry in this regard.
Hmmmm… Did not an old testament Prophet pray for days and not get an answer becasue the angel that had to deliver to the Prophet the message, had to first wage war and get help in regard to combatting opposing forces?
Eeeps! The ramifications of my previous statement just raised the hair on the back of my neck.
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