New Advent vs. Catholic Answers - Who's Right

[Catechist]

Does Cathlic Answers faithfully reproduce works of the early fathers?? New Advent uses the word 'presides", Catholic Answers uses “presidency”. That’s a huge gap.

in the Catholic Answers tract - The Authority of the Pope: Part I

Ignatius of Antioch

. . . to the church also which holds the presidency, in the location of the country of the Romans, worthy of God, worthy of honor, worthy of blessing, worthy of praise, worthy of success, worthy of sanctification, and, because you hold the presidency in love, named after Christ and named after the Father" (*Letter to the Romans *1:1 [A.D. 110]).

Compare to

New Advent - The Epistle of Ignatius to the Romans
… to the Church which has obtained mercy, through the majesty of the Most High Father, and Jesus Christ, His only-begotten Son; the Church which is beloved and enlightened by the will of Him that wills all things which are according to the love of Jesus Christ our God, which also presides in the place of the region of the Romans, worthy of God, worthy of honour, worthy of the highest happiness worthy of praise, worthy of obtaining her every desire, worthy of being deemed holy, and which presides over love, is named from Christ, and from the Father,

 

[PhilVaz]

Catholic Answers: …to the church also which holds the presidency, in the location of the country of the Romans…
vs.
New Advent: …which also presides in the place of the region of the Romans…

and

CA: …because you hold the presidency in love…
vs.
NA: …and which presides over love…

Another translation I’ve seen is “presides over the love-community” or such. CA is probably using Jurgens translation (The Father of the Early Fathers, three volumes, 1970s), while NA uses the older Fathers of the Church multi-volume set from the 1950s I think, the standard Catholic source you find at your local university library (my U.S.F. has them). An Orthodox book The Primacy of Peter says on this passage:

“We find the first direct evidence about the priority of the Roman Church in the writings of Ignatius of Antioch. Speaking of the Church of Rome, Ignatius uses the phrase ‘which presides’ in two passages… The Roman Church ‘presides’ in love, that is, in the concord based on love between all the local churches. The term ‘which presides’ [Greek given] needs no discussion; used in the masculine it means the bishop, for he, as head of the local church, sits in the ‘first place’ at the eucharistic assembly, that is, in the central seat. He is truly the president of his church…[Ignatius] pictured the local churches grouped, as it were, in a eucharistic assembly, with every church in its special place, and the church of Rome in the chair, sitting in the ‘first place.’ So, says Ignatius, the Church of Rome indeed has the priority in the whole company of churches united by concord…In his period no other church laid claim to the role, which belonged to the Church of Rome.” (page 126-127)

This paragraph equates “which presides” with “truly the president” since the meaning is similar. One would have to check the Greek of St. Ignatius to find the best translation.

Phil P

 

[JaneFrances]

This discrepancy has been discussed in these forums recently. While, I agree that the specificity could be most accurately derived from a direct quotation in the original Greek of Ignatius, the point ultimately is that those who hold the “presidency” “preside.” Thus, there is very little distinction between the two when the content of each translation is analyzed.

 

[Pjs2ejs]

Aren’t preside and president forms of the same word? Go grab any two Bibles and you’ll see this millions of times. I don’t think it changes the meaning, do you?

 

[El_camino]

Here’s from a more impartial source: www.ccel.org

“Ignatius, who is also called Theophorus, to the Church which has obtained mercy, through the majesty of the Most High Father, and Jesus Christ, His only-begotten Son; the Church which is beloved and enlightened by the will of Him that willeth all things which are according to the love of Jesus Christ our God, which also presides in the place of the region of the Romans, worthy of God, worthy of honour, worthy of the highest happiness, worthy of praise, worthy of obtaining her every desire, worthy of being deemed holy,(819819 Or, “most holy.”) and which presides over love, is named from Christ, and from the Father, which I also salute in the name of Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father: to those who are united, both according to the flesh and spirit, to every one of His commandments; who are filled inseparably with the grace of God, and are purified from every strange taint, * abundance of happiness unblameably, in Jesus Christ our God.” (Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Romans 1:1)

But also Ignatius said:

“You [the church at Rome] have envied no one, but others you have taught. I desire only that what you have enjoined in your instructions may remain in force” (ibid., 3:1).

So this kind of clarifies what he meant above, but regardless of how this passage of Ignatius is understood, I think what Ireneaus of Lyon, who lived around the same time as Ignatius, makes the case very clear, when he said:

“But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the succession of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. With that church, because of its superior origin, all the churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world, and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition” (Against Heresies 3:3:2 [A.D. 189]).

All churches must agree with the Church of Rome according to Ireneaus.

Many blessings,

E.C.*