New and Improved Rapture

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CopticChristian

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Every now and again I watch TBN. I have seen this guy Perry Stone and listened to him for a short time. In essence he says that the reason that the Rapture and millenial teaching was not mentioned in any bible commentary in the past was because there was no Israel.

I am not wanting to get into a discussion about the existence of Israel. I have my opinion on that. What I was wondering is that this guy was saying that in effect because there is an Israel following world war II it would stand to reason that the teaching would surface. In effect it sounds to me like 2 things.
  1. Revalation is progressive
  2. This guys website is the new and improved dispensationalism, repackaged, similar to what is being done by the Baptists, ie saddleback Church ala Rick Warren.
This is his website
voe.org/

This is the talk on the rapture I spoke of
media.voe.org/

Do others see this as just plain old Darbyism, repackaged to look unlike what you see John Hagee doing? Do others see this as progressive revalation?

Should I stop watching TBN?
 
Perry Stone…😃 LOL.
Only Jack Van Impe provides more entertainment. They seriously ought to consider doing his show with a laugh track.

Dispensationalism is a constant evolving theology. The FOUNDATION of the system is the belief in a restoration of Biblical Israel. So its kind of hard not to discuss Israel when talking about this theological system. Paleo-Dispensationalists (declaring copyrite on the word as of now.;)), as in Darby, looked only to a future Israel of the Millenium, but after 1948 that all changed. Post-1948 Dispensationalism began to see prophecy fullfilled in the creation of the Jewish State. For Perry to declare “Revalation is progressive” is a nice PC way of saying ‘we gotta keep changing our story’. :rolleyes:
Many years ago my wife asked a diehard Dispy this question:
“If the State of Israel ceased to exist tomorrow, what would that do to your theology”?
I have never seen a person react to such a question. It was as if he were asked if there were no God. I half expected him to implode and see smoke coming out his ears.
Kind of tells you what these guys have faith in: their own reasoning.

Our Jewish friends (and any Israelis) should be the most offened at this ‘theology’. Because it basically teaches God will draw all the Jewish people to Israel.
And then kill them.
I mean…do Israelis really wanna support these guys?
 
Another run of the mill sola scriptura Southern Evangelical Church. They are a dime a dozen down here.

I noticed his bible verse shooting machine gun was loaded with verses from the KJV Bible - typical for East Tennesee where VOE is located. You can get lynched for bringing an RSV into some areas of East Tennesee.

I don’t know why any Catholic would give the theology taught by that Church any serious consideration other than to learn what their arguments will be when they try to converty your kids.

-Tim-
 
CopticChristian said:
Every now and again I watch TBN. I have seen this guy Perry Stone and listened to him for a short time. In essence he says that the reason that the Rapture and millenial teaching was not mentioned in any bible commentary in the past was because there was no Israel.

I am not wanting to get into a discussion about the existence of Israel. I have my opinion on that. What I was wondering is that this guy was saying that in effect because there is an Israel following world war II it would stand to reason that the teaching would surface.<—Rapture teaching is hundreds of years old. It predates WW II and the formation of the Israeli State in 1948. In effect it sounds to me like 2 things.
  1. Revalation is progressive
  2. This guys website is the new and improved dispensationalism, repackaged, similar to what is being done by the Baptists, ie saddleback Church ala Rick Warren.<–I went to the Church for about 2 years and I don’t think I ever heard Warren or any of his preacher staff talk about the rapture or any new version of it. Not that he doesn’t believe in it, but I don’t think they preach on it much, maybe not at all based on my experience.
This is his website
voe.org/

This is the talk on the rapture I spoke of
media.voe.org/

Do others see this as just plain old Darbyism, repackaged to look unlike what you see John Hagee doing? Do others see this as progressive revalation?

Should I stop watching TBN?
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This guy, whoever he is might just be trying gain some fame for coming up with something new to get people talking about him.
Or maybe you’re wrong about his notion that rapture teaching:rolleyes: didn’t come about until after WW II?
 
The teaching of the rapture antedates the state of Israel, since it surfaced in the 1800s, and Israel did not appear as a modern state until 1948.

The Rapture, however, can be found only in a severe twisting of scripture to make it fit.

ICXC NIKA
 
babylonsfalling said:
This guy, whoever he is might just be trying gain some fame for coming up with something new to get people talking about him.
Or maybe you’re wrong about his notion that rapture teaching:rolleyes: didn’t come about until after WW II?
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No, I am not wrong. If you listen to his video you will hear him say that the reason it was not taught is because there was no Israel to relate prophecy to.:eek:🤷
 
GEddie said:
The teaching of the rapture antedates the state of Israel, since it surfaced in the 1800s, and Israel did not appear as a modern state until 1948.

The Rapture, however, can be found only in a severe twisting of scripture to make it fit.

ICXC NIKA
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Good point. I believe he is saying that it did not “surface” as something taught. He did not say that the notion surfaced.
 
jam070406 said:
Yes. Stop watching TBN.
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Ya know, the funny thing is that there is TBN with a mix. There is Daystar that is Baptist and then some other statiion with Mike Murdoch talking about Malachi, the gates of heaven, law of the seed, EWTN and BYU. Not much choice.😊🤷
 
CopticChristian said:
No, I am not wrong. If you listen to his video you will hear him say that the reason it was not taught is because there was no Israel to relate prophecy to.:eek:🤷
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Then the guy is VERY VERY ignorant of the history of what he talks about. His whole premise is off because it’s common knowledge that rapture teachings:rolleyes: are hundreds of years old.

I doubt his stuff will get off the ground, even with rapture believers. They’ll stick with old rapture theology.
 
GEddie said:
The teaching of the rapture antedates the state of Israel,<—That’s what I was saying. since** it surfaced in the 1800s, **<—I think I read somewhere that it was 1700’s in England maybe? and then brought to the US and Israel did not appear as a modern state until 1948.

The Rapture, however, can be found only in a severe twisting of scripture to make it fit.

ICXC NIKA
Click to expand...
Much of the end times theology and the various sub-theories about who the latest anti Christ is supposed to be is just as goofy as the rapture itself. It all comes together in a bizarre mish-mash what to read symbolically, what to read literally and how to mix both the literal and symbolic into current headlines about world leaders and world events. And of course it all changes when world leaders and events change, AND every end-of-the-world-expert has a different take on all the different variables. Very bizarre hobby.:confused:

I almost got caught up in that stuff as a kid, back in the 80’s when Ronald Wilson Reagan (six letters in each name) was supposed to be the latest anti Christ and the former Pope was supposed to the false prophet.
 
babylonsfalling said:
Much of the end times theology and the various sub-theories about who the latest anti Christ is supposed to be is just as goofy as the rapture itself. It all comes together in a bizarre mish-mash what to read symbolically, what to read literally and how to mix both the literal and symbolic into current headlines about world leaders and world events. And of course it all changes when world leaders and events change, AND every end-of-the-world-expert has a different take on all the different variables. Very bizarre hobby.:confused:

I almost got caught up in that stuff as a kid, back in the 80’s when Ronald Wilson Reagan (six letters in each name) was supposed to be the latest anti Christ and the former Pope was supposed to the false prophet.
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I never got caught up in it. I had many Protestants trying to get me to read Revalation and see if I could make sense of it and of course they thought they could. I came across a book “rightly dividing the word of God” by a Reformed writer. You can always count on a reformed writer to battle the fringe elements. I also was introduced to a variety of other sources including Scott Hahn’s study on Revalation and he mentions David Chilton’s days of Vengance. I believe that as long as someone understands that there is Historic Premillinealism, Amellianism, Postmillenialinism and Premillianilism in that order historically then understanding can be obtained. Thanx.👍
 
Yes please stay away from TBN and stick with EWTN you can even watch EWTN on the computer.
 
JustaServant said:
Perry Stone…😃 LOL.
Only Jack Van Impe provides more entertainment.
Click to expand...
I like Jack and apparently, he has spoken well of the Catholic Church, probably in detriment to how he is viewed by ‘some’ other Protestants. But JVI when I use to see him, I thought was okay… you know about 6-8 weeks ago, he had a big falling out with TBN, you can find it in a websearch. At the same time, I’m not sure if he should have criticized this Rick Warren, one of the heads of the Assemblies of God from what I gather, the guy Obama invited to give prayers but that is now a bit off topic … TBN is a mixed bag but some of their programs I find acceptable or at least, did in the past. I use to live in a town without much tv but we did get TBN. And I think they still show Davey and Goliath around noon on Saturdays 😉 So, they do have some good programming, I think they sometimes show decent spiritual movies all night as well. All of this prophecy stuff, JVI is okay with me, but let’s face it, Prophetizing is also Profiteering for most of these people.

TBN is not the enemy but it seems a lot of those shows are profit oriented however, that’s where Jay Seckulow started being in the news, Jay’s okay. Some of them are okay. But sure, EWTN is better. If you want to see someone that is hostile to Catholicism, of course, it is Swaggart’s channel, also, I know the 7th day Adventist did have some tv. So TBN at least is not like these people.
 
I like Jack and apparently, he has spoken well of the Catholic Church, probably in detriment to how he is viewed by ‘some’ other Protestants.
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:banghead:

Please take it from somebody who used to be a part of this nonsense.
Jack Van Impe is no friend to Catholics. His ‘friendship’ to Catholics is about two things:
1, Money to his ‘ministry’,
2. Converts.
Am I saying Impe is lying when he claims to be a ‘friend’ to Catholics?
Yes.
As for TBN, the entire purpose of the channel is to make money by any means possible. Paul and Jan Crouch are scam artists.
 
The only reason you can watch spiritual movies on TBN is because it has been paid for by the group promoting the movie or TBN has not been able to sell that time spot.

That is why you see so many different versions of Christianity on that channel. It’s all paid programming.

EWTN is paid for by our donations only. There is no paid programming. 🙂
 
Miriam1947 said:
The only reason you can watch spiritual movies on TBN is because it has been paid for by the group promoting the movie or TBN has not been able to sell that time spot.

That is why you see so many different versions of Christianity on that channel. It’s all paid programming.

EWTN is paid for by our donations only. There is no paid programming. 🙂
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On my cable channel there are a couple stations which are religious in nature, but they also show movies and old TV shows. I think the days of networks like TBN which run 24/7 marathon fund raising are coming to an end (thank God).
 
JustaServant said:
:banghead:

Please take it from somebody who used to be a part of this nonsense.
Jack Van Impe is no friend to Catholics. His ‘friendship’ to Catholics is about two things:
1, Money to his ‘ministry’,
2. Converts.
Am I saying Impe is lying when he claims to be a ‘friend’ to Catholics?
Yes.
As for TBN, the entire purpose of the channel is to make money by any means possible. Paul and Jan Crouch are scam artists.
Click to expand...
Van Impe is going after Schuller Senior and Rick Warren for something call “Chrislam”. Ya gotta love Protestants without any central authority and no one speaking on behalf of Protestant thought conclusively. I would go nuts trying to figure out who to listent to.:banghead::rotfl:
 
JustaServant said:
:banghead:

Please take it from somebody who used to be a part of this nonsense.
Jack Van Impe is no friend to Catholics. His ‘friendship’ to Catholics is about two things:
1, Money to his ‘ministry’,
2. Converts.
Am I saying Impe is lying when he claims to be a ‘friend’ to Catholics?
Yes.
As for TBN, the entire purpose of the channel is to make money by any means possible. Paul and Jan Crouch are scam artists.
Click to expand...
Nobody’s forcing you to watch it.
 
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