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Joe_Kelley
Guest
It’s a conspiracy to relieve you of $9.95 plus shipping and handling.
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saint_rafael
Guest
Of coarse the Vatican was lying about the first part of the secret that was released in 2000. Anyone who actually read the vision would have had to come to the conclusionthat it has nothing to do with the attempted assasination of Pope John Paul II.
Cardinal Sodano must think Catholics are complete idiots if they are going to believe his crazy interpretation.
In the text that was released, the Bishop in White (Pope) leaves a half ruined city walks and prays over dead corpses, walks up a hill with clergy and laity and is shot DEAD by soldiers who in turn kill everyone else. Two angels recover the blood of the Pope and sprinkle the martyrs with it.
How in the world is this related to Pope John Paul being shot by one man and RECOVERING? There was also no soldiers and there was no ruined city associated with the assasination attempt.
Cardinal Sodano has yet to clarify the contradiction of the Pope dying in the vision and Pope John Paul II recovering from a single shot and living.
Cardinal Sodano must think Catholics are complete idiots if they are going to believe his crazy interpretation.
In the text that was released, the Bishop in White (Pope) leaves a half ruined city walks and prays over dead corpses, walks up a hill with clergy and laity and is shot DEAD by soldiers who in turn kill everyone else. Two angels recover the blood of the Pope and sprinkle the martyrs with it.
How in the world is this related to Pope John Paul being shot by one man and RECOVERING? There was also no soldiers and there was no ruined city associated with the assasination attempt.
Cardinal Sodano has yet to clarify the contradiction of the Pope dying in the vision and Pope John Paul II recovering from a single shot and living.
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saint_rafael
Guest
They were charged to reveal the secrets. They had revealed already the fist two secrets which were the vision of hell and the prediction of WWII.
Mary requested that the Third Secret be revealed by the Pope of 1960. Pope John XXIII refused and refused to do what the secret said, because of that, the Church is in serious trouble.
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saint_rafael
Guest
This is no mere apparition or private revelation. In reality this is a direct intervention from heaven that concerns the fate of the Church and the world.
This private revelation unlike others, contain grave prophesies for the future of the world and Church. Mary came to Earth and gave the faithful warnings.
100,000 people saw the miracle of the sun in 1917. This is the biggest miracle since the beggining of the Church.
Only a fool would ignore this great message fom heaven. Without Marian devotion we cannot be saved.
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TheDoctor
Guest
St. Rafael: You were really really emotional and not thinking straight when you typed this, right? Now, in the calm light of day, you realize that this is nowhere taught by the Church, right?
Just a kind word of advice: In order for me to take you seriously, I first have to know that you are a Catholic who understands the faith. You do little to foster that belief by statements like this.
I am working on deepening my personal devotion to Mary because I think it helps bring me closer to Jesus, but this devotion is not necessary for my salvation (and I think Mary would agree with me on that here).
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
Fatima is a private revelation. It is not a de fide of the faith. A faithful Catholic may believe that nothing special happened at Fatima.
This is a bit problem some of those who believe in Fatima have, that it is something that is at the same level of a dogma of the Church and that everyone has to believe in it.
It isn’t and we don’t have to believe in it.
As for your calling others fools but not believing in something that the Church actually tells them they do not have to believe in, well that is very Christian of you.
Here is the relevant section from the Catechism.
There will be no further Revelation
**66 "The Christian economy, therefore, since it is the new and definitive Covenant, will never pass away; and no new public revelation is to be expected before the glorious manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ."28 Yet even if Revelation is already complete, it has not been made completely explicit; it remains for Christian faith gradually to grasp its full significance over the course of the centuries.
**
67 Throughout the ages, there have been so-called “private” revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.
Christian faith cannot accept “revelations” that claim to surpass or correct the Revelation of which Christ is the fulfillment, as is the case in certain non-Christian religions and also in certain recent sects which base themselves on such “revelations”.
28 DV 4; cf. 1 Tim 6:14; Titus 2:13.
As for Marian Devotion being required to be saved. This is not what the Catholic Church Teaches.
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Carolinagirl411
Guest
well I read this
… Cardinal Mario Luigi Ciappi, Pope John
Paul II’s personal papal theologian, quoted
in the journal Catholic, March 2002
so wouldn’t the heads of the Church not want this secret known b/c it would promote doubt and fear and mistrust in the congregation of Catholics? If I was told that Mary appeared and told these children that the Pope or Bishops would start the “falling away” I would not want to listen to them anymore! Makes sense why the Church would refuse…but I don’t like the fact that they were given a directive and ignored it.
Code:
“In the Third Secret it is foretold, among other things, that the great apostasy in the Church will begin at the top.”Paul II’s personal papal theologian, quoted
in the journal Catholic, March 2002
so wouldn’t the heads of the Church not want this secret known b/c it would promote doubt and fear and mistrust in the congregation of Catholics? If I was told that Mary appeared and told these children that the Pope or Bishops would start the “falling away” I would not want to listen to them anymore! Makes sense why the Church would refuse…but I don’t like the fact that they were given a directive and ignored it.
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saint_rafael
Guest
Technically Catholics don’t have to believe in private revelations, but most people I have met who do not believe in Fatima or other apparitions use this same excuse.
It is usually a sign of weakness is their Catholic faith. They don’t have any marian devotion, devotion to saints, or any of the other apparitions.
This is usually due to Protestantism, modernism, or the effects of Vatican II.
True Catholicism understands that God has continued to directly communicate with his Church through messages to her saints. Mary has appeared many times on Earth and Fatima was one of extreme importance.
Catholics know they don’t have to believe in them , but they do because they have faith. They believe that God sends Mary to communicate with us. This apparations have occured in reality.
We have no hangups when it comes to believing in all the wondeful exchanges God has decided to make known with humanity.
We believe in the communion of saints and the rich history of their contribution to the Church.
It is usually a sign of weakness is their Catholic faith. They don’t have any marian devotion, devotion to saints, or any of the other apparitions.
This is usually due to Protestantism, modernism, or the effects of Vatican II.
True Catholicism understands that God has continued to directly communicate with his Church through messages to her saints. Mary has appeared many times on Earth and Fatima was one of extreme importance.
Catholics know they don’t have to believe in them , but they do because they have faith. They believe that God sends Mary to communicate with us. This apparations have occured in reality.
We have no hangups when it comes to believing in all the wondeful exchanges God has decided to make known with humanity.
We believe in the communion of saints and the rich history of their contribution to the Church.
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saint_rafael
Guest
I am dead serious. I am very devoted to Mary and consider myself to be one of the many passionate Marian Catholics. I always advocate the rosary and the brown scapular. I have petioned Rome for the fifth Marian dogma of Mary of Mary as co-redemptrix and Mediatrix of all graces.
I merely stated what the giants of the Church have said. All the great saints are Marian.
I suggest everyone read the writings of St. Louis De Montfort and St. Alphonsus De Liguori.
True Devotion to Mary by St. Louis De Montfort
Glories of Mary by St. Alphonsus De Liguori
The Church has always been at it’s greatest when Marian devotion was high among the faithful. In epochs were there was trouble and apostasy, Marian devotion was low.
After Vatican II, the Church regulated Mary and Marian devotions to second-class status. It is no wonder we have a lack of faith and apostasy in our times.
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
Thats one opinion.
Another one I have heard is that those who expend so much energy into private revelations do so because their faith is so weak that they need messages from God rather than relying on the wealth of public revelation.
As for devotion to Mary, one does not have to go to private revelation to have a strong devotion to Mary.
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Volodymyr_988
Guest
How “Marian were Sts. Peter, Paul, Clement I, and Ignatius of Antioch?”
I have a scapular (actually a 5-in-1 scapular), have devoted my self to Our Lady according to St. Louis de Montfort (with whom I share a birthday!), and believe in the apparitions of Guadalupe, Fatima, Lasalette, Pontmain, and Quito. But I will not hold them up with Scripture, Tradition, and the Magisterium. You cannot require people to believe in your pet Apparition. To do so smacks of heresy. (I’m not calling you a heretic personally.)
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t68ware
Guest
Forgive my ignorance on this subject, but what is everybody talking about?? As a Protestant, I am quite ignorant of what everybody is discussing.
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bpbasilphx
Guest
Of coarse the Vatican was lying about the first part of the secret that was released in 2000.
Since apparently you know so much about what the third secret really is, why don’t you relay it exactly and completely to us here in these fora–and tell us how YOU happend to find out.
Since apparently you know so much about what the third secret really is, why don’t you relay it exactly and completely to us here in these fora–and tell us how YOU happend to find out.
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Carolinagirl411
Guest
Isn’t viewing Mary as co-redemptrix one of the main reasons why Protestants do not like the Catholic Church. makes me EXTREMELY uncomfortable. I believe Mary is there to point us in the direction of Christ but she is not a co-redemptrix. Only Christ died to redeem us of our sins!
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saint_rafael
Guest
We are talking about Our Lady of Fatima.
In 1917, in the town of Fatima, Portugal, Mary appeared to three children. She appeared every month on the 13th until the last appearance on October 13, 1917. Mary called for repentence, rosary prayer, and devotion to her Immcaculate Heart of Mary in reparation for those who blaspheme her.
Mary gave them three secrets about the future. The first was a vision of hell. The second was prediction of World War II. The last secret was partly revelaled by the Vatican in 2000. It talks about the death of a Pope along with many Catholics. The second part of this last secret has not been revealed. It start with “In Portugal the dogma of the faith will always be preserved etc…”
The “etc” has not been revealed.
Mary promised everyone a miracle on her last appearance on Oct. 13, 1917. 100,000 people witnessed the miracle of the Sun. Atheists were immediately converted to Catholicism. The sun danced in the sky, came crashing unto Earth and stopped close to Earth before going back to the sky. It has been raining and the ground was soaked. Immediately after the miracle, when all the people had got up from the ground because they thought it was the end of the world, they found all their clothes were dried.
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Volodymyr_988
Guest
The argument is that co is derived from the Latin cum meaning “with” so she aided in our Redemption by her “Yes” or fiat (not the car ) and in a way we are all co-redemptors from Col 1:24
[SIGN]Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ, in my flesh, for his body, which is the church: [/SIGN]
But since she co-operated with God unlike no other being she deserves the title of Co-Redemptrix.
That’s the argument anyway.
) and in a way we are all co-redemptors from Col 1:24[SIGN]Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ, in my flesh, for his body, which is the church: [/SIGN]
But since she co-operated with God unlike no other being she deserves the title of Co-Redemptrix.
That’s the argument anyway.
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saint_rafael
Guest
I could care less what Protestant heretics think. When we proclaim a dogma, it is for the glory of the Church. This would be an extremely wonderful way of nourishing and strenghtening the faith of Catholics.
Christ is the only redeemer, but becuause Mary is the mother of God she brought the redeemer into the world and Jesus so loves his mother that he allows her as a creature to co-operate with him to become a co-redemtrix.
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saint_rafael
Guest
I didn’t say I knew what last part of the secret was, but that the first part of the third secret released by the Vatican in 2000, does not fit their interpretation.
The first part of the secret was released at the beatification ceremony for Jancita and Francisco in 2000.
Anyone can can read the text for themselves. After reading the text, try and explain how that vision is in any way remotely connected with the assassination attempt of Pope JPII. It is ludicrous that they tried to explain it by linking it to Pope John Paul II.
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stmaria
Guest
If the full Third Secret has been revealed, then why did Pope John Paul say that the Third Secret contains a “troubling” message, of predictions of “oceans flooding entire continents, people annihilated suddenly, by the millions, from one instant to the next.”
“If a message announces that millions of people are going to die,
one doesn’t really wish to have it made public. Many want to know it only out of curiosity, but they forget that** knowledge brings responsibility.”**
There is no doubt in my mind that the decision had been made by previous Popes to release only part of the Third Secret.
Ewtn-
ewtn.com/library/ISSUES/ENDNEAR.TXT
It is known that John Paul II has read and meditated on the text,
and has shown the letter to Ratzinger. But neither man has ever
spoken publicly about the contents -except once.
According to a report from more than 15 years ago, John Paul spoke
about the “Third Secret” to a group in Fulda, Germany, on a visit
there on November 17,1980. His words were tape-recorded.
What emerges is a picture rather more disturbing than the one
painted by Ratzinger last month.
In that private gathering, the Pope spoke of a “troubling”
message, of predictions of “oceans flooding entire continents,
people annihilated suddenly, by the millions, from one instant to
the next.”
“We must be well prepared,” the Pope said, “for great trials in
the near future, which can even require the sacrifice of our
lives.” And he explained why he had not made the message public:
“If a message announces that millions of people are going to die,
one doesn’t really wish to have it made public. Many want to know
it only out of curiosity, but they forget that knowledge brings
responsibility.”
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peary
Guest
I don’t consider Art Bell to be an authority on anything LOL. I also take whatever Malachi Martin has to say with a grain of salt (if that much). He left the Jesuit Order and later the priesthood to pursue a literary career. Sister Lucia is involved in the release of the Third Fatima Secret from the very beginning as the Vatican and the pope (John Paul II) sought her direct (name removed by moderator)ut prior to its release. She said there is nothing more to be said about it, and also stated that the rumors of great chastisements that are reported to be part of the Third Secret are false.
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