New Book on Third Secret!!!

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saint_rafael said:
Fr. Gruner has never seen the secret. Fr. Malachi Martin has.

Fr. Malachi Martin was the secretary to Cardinal Bea in the late 50’s and early 60’s. Fr. Malachi Martin read the third secret along with a few close associates of Pope John XXIII on a February morning in 1960. All those who read it took an oath to never reveal the secret their whole lives.

It was this famous meeting in which Pope John XXIII told everyone that he was not going to release it as Mary had requested.
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**This is just wrong. Malachi Martin never saw the third secret of Fatima! And John XXIII didn’t have to release the message to anyone because it was meant only for the pope and no one else. Sister Lucia has time and again explained that the secret was meant only for the pope; it was not meant for the world. She also was involved directly with the Vatican and John Paul II in the release of the secret back in 2000. When John XXIII initially requested to see the secret back in 1960, it was brought to him, he took it out of the envelope, read it, placed it back inside, told his secretary to put it back, and then said that it didn’t involve his pontificate or the world at this time. And that was that.
 
peary said:
**This is just wrong. Malachi Martin *never ***saw the third secret of Fatima! And John XXIII didn’t have to release the message to anyone because it was meant only for the pope and no one else. Sister Lucia has time and again explained that the secret was meant only for the pope; it was not meant for the world. She also was involved directly with the Vatican and John Paul II in the release of the secret back in 2000. When John XXIII initially requested to see the secret back in 1960, it was brought to him, he took it out of the envelope, read it, placed it back inside, told his secretary to put it back, and then said that it didn’t involve his pontificate or the world at this time. And that was that.
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I don’t know much about Malachi Martin, but you need to qualify what you are saying about John XXIII and the secret. It is true that John XXIII read a text in 1960, but it is also true that he read a text in 1959. As for it only being for the pope, I will let the testimony of Fr. Schweigl speak:

“I cannot reveal anything of what I learned at Fatima concerning the Third Secret, but I can say that it has two parts: one concerns the Pope. The other, logically — although I must say nothing — would have to be the continuation of the words: In Portugal, the dogma of the Faith will always be preserved.” -September 2, 1952
Documented in Frere Michel’s The Whole Truth About Fatima, Vol. 3, pg. 710.
 
I’m glad that my post got some notice. I’m not going to try and refute everyone who objects. I just wanted to invite anyone who hasn’t completely suspended their use of reason to look at the facts and decide for themselves. But even when we know the reality of the situation, which is sad, we have to have hope and continue to suffer as long as Our Good Lord wills. Our Lady promised her Immaculate Heart would triumph in the end, so let us pray and work for that triumph! Keep praying for the Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI and all our bishops!
 
Mary requested that the Third Secret be revealed by the Pope of 1960. Pope John XXIII refused and refused to do what the secret said, because of that, the Church is in serious trouble.
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God does NOT communicate to the Church through private revelations. While I accept Fatima as real and true, the Church is in no “serious trouble” because a Pope refused to abide by a suppossed request from a suppossed apparition of Mary. It’s this kind of superstitious nonsense that gives Catholicism a bad name and taints the real honor we do and should give to Mary.

Pope John Paul II revealed the 3rd secret, if you don’t or can’t accept that I’d like to recommend you find another Church. THE MATTER IS CLOSED.
 
peary said:
**This is just wrong. Malachi Martin *never ***saw the third secret of Fatima! And John XXIII didn’t have to release the message to anyone because it was meant only for the pope and no one else. Sister Lucia has time and again explained that the secret was meant only for the pope; it was not meant for the world. She also was involved directly with the Vatican and John Paul II in the release of the secret back in 2000. When John XXIII initially requested to see the secret back in 1960, it was brought to him, he took it out of the envelope, read it, placed it back inside, told his secretary to put it back, and then said that it didn’t involve his pontificate or the world at this time. And that was that.
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He did read the secret. It is a historical fact that he was the secreatary of Cardinal Bea. Look it Up!

On December 26, 1957 Father Augustin Fuentes, who was preparing to become the postulator of the causes for beatification of Francisco and Jacinta Marto, met with Sister Lucy at her convent in Coimbra, Portugal. Here, he was able to converse with the Fatima seer at great length. Upon his return to his native Mexico, he gave a conference on the meeting, in which he reported Sister Lucy’s words. Father Alonso, the official Fatima archivist for 16 years, stressed that the account of this conference was published “with every guarantee of authenticity and with due episcopal approval, including that of the Bishop of Fatima.”

"Father, how much time is there before 1960 arrives? It will be very sad for everyone, not one person will rejoice at all if beforehand the world does not pray and do penance. I am not able to give any other details, because it is still a Secret. According to the will of the Most Holy Virgin, only the Holy Father and the Bishop of Fatima are permitted to know the Secret, but they have chosen to not know it so that they would not be influenced. This is the third part of the Message of Our Lady, which will remain secret until 1960."
-Sr. Lucia

fatima.org/essentials/opposed/frfuentes.asp
 
I could care less what Protestant heretics think. When we proclaim a dogma, it is for the glory of the Church. This would be an extremely wonderful way of nourishing and strenghtening the faith of Catholics.
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Well, when we set about doing things for the glory of the Church we’re missing the mark. A dogma reveals a truth. I for one as a Catholic would not feel anymore nourished or strengthened as a Catholic if this became Dogma.

By the way, Protestants aren’t heretics unless they were formerly Catholic.
 
saint_rafael said:
He did read the secret. It is a historical fact that he was the secreatary of Cardinal Bea. Look it Up!

On December 26, 1957 Father Augustin Fuentes, who was preparing to become the postulator of the causes for beatification of Francisco and Jacinta Marto, met with Sister Lucy at her convent in Coimbra, Portugal. Here, he was able to converse with the Fatima seer at great length. Upon his return to his native Mexico, he gave a conference on the meeting, in which he reported Sister Lucy’s words. Father Alonso, the official Fatima archivist for 16 years, stressed that the account of this conference was published “with every guarantee of authenticity and with due episcopal approval, including that of the Bishop of Fatima.”

"Father, how much time is there before 1960 arrives? It will be very sad for everyone, not one person will rejoice at all if beforehand the world does not pray and do penance. I am not able to give any other details, because it is still a Secret. According to the will of the Most Holy Virgin, only the Holy Father and the Bishop of Fatima are permitted to know the Secret, but they have chosen to not know it so that they would not be influenced. This is the third part of the Message of Our Lady, which will remain secret until 1960."
-Sr. Lucia

fatima.org/essentials/opposed/frfuentes.asp
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My personal recommendation is you worry less about PRIVATE REVELATIONS and more about the message of Jesus Christ as revealed in Scripture and by the Magesterium of the Church.
 
And John XXIII didn’t have to release the message to anyone because it was meant only for the pope and no one else.
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The Pope didn’t have to release the message because the Pope is not subject to orders that come from a PRIVATE REVELATION. Remember that folks, these are PRIVATE REVELATIONS…they are in NO WAY BINDING or DEFINITIVE.
 
peary said:
I don’t consider Art Bell to be an authority on anything LOL. I also take whatever Malachi Martin has to say with a grain of salt (if that much). He left the Jesuit Order and later the priesthood to pursue a literary career. Sister Lucia is involved in the release of the Third Fatima Secret from the very beginning as the Vatican and the pope (John Paul II) sought her direct (name removed by moderator)ut prior to its release. She said there is nothing more to be said about it, and also stated that the rumors of great chastisements that are reported to be part of the Third Secret are false.
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Who cares about Art Bell. All I said was that Fr. Martin gave an interview on the show and revealed the story about reading the Third Secret.

Fr. Martin saw that the Church was being liberalized and wanted out of the Jesuits. The Jesuits were on the verge of loosing their faith which they did. The Jesuits are a sad apostate group today.
Fr. Martin asked to be relieved of his vows of poverty and obedience, but not chastity. Pope Paul VI agreed.

When he came to New York, Cardinal Cooke gave him permission to continue as a priest with all the valid priestly functions, with the one condition that he wear secular clothes as not to get confused with priests from the diocese.

A great defense of Fr. Martin:
geocities.com/whkinfo1/malachi_martinsophia.htm
 
Without Marian devotion we cannot be saved.
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We’ve already had this discussion on another thread, that statement, in my humble opinion, is heresy. It is FOR SURE, NOT supported by the Church.
 
saint_rafael said:
Technically Catholics don’t have to believe in private revelations, but most people I have met who do not believe in Fatima or other apparitions use this same excuse.

It is usually a sign of weakness is their Catholic faith. They don’t have any marian devotion, devotion to saints, or any of the other apparitions.

This is usually due to Protestantism, modernism, or the effects of Vatican II.

True Catholicism understands that God has continued to directly communicate with his Church through messages to her saints. Mary has appeared many times on Earth and Fatima was one of extreme importance.

Catholics know they don’t have to believe in them , but they do because they have faith. They believe that God sends Mary to communicate with us. This apparations have occured in reality.

We have no hangups when it comes to believing in all the wondeful exchanges God has decided to make known with humanity.

We believe in the communion of saints and the rich history of their contribution to the Church.
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And some Catholics see Mary in a piece of toast or in a window pane or in a taco or a corn flake. The Church has stated CLEARLY that revelation came to an end LONG ago. Private revelations are meant for the edification of those who recieve them, they are not binding, not definitive, NOT NECESSARY.
 
**
I didn’t say I knew what last part of the secret was, but that the first part of the third secret released by the Vatican in 2000, does not fit their interpretation.**

In other words, saint rafael, you have no more idea about what the third secret really says than anybody else.
 
Yerusalyim said:
We’ve already had this discussion on another thread, that statement, in my humble opinion, is heresy. It is FOR SURE, NOT supported by the Church.
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I totally agree with you. This is AGAINST Church teaching and anyone who says we cannot be saved without Marian devotion is a heretic.
 
Carolinagirl411 said:
Isn’t viewing Mary as co-redemptrix one of the main reasons why Protestants do not like the Catholic Church. makes me EXTREMELY uncomfortable. I believe Mary is there to point us in the direction of Christ but she is not a co-redemptrix. Only Christ died to redeem us of our sins!
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**The term “co-redemptrix” does NOT mean “equal redeemer”!! It means that Mary COOPERATED with the grace of God and with the will of God to bring the Redeemer (Christ) into the world; at the Annunciation (Lk.1:38) Mary freely cooperated in giving the Second Person of the Trinity his human body which is the very instrument of redemption, as Scripture tells us: “We have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all” (Heb.10:10).

The prefix “co” in the title Coredemptrix does not mean “equal to” but rather “with”, coming from the Latin word cum. The Marian title Coredemptrix never places Mary on a level of equality with her Divine Son, Jesus Christ. Rather it refers to Mary’s unique human participation which is completely secondary and subordinate to the redeeming role of Jesus, who alone is true God and true Man.**
 
peary said:
**The term “co-redemptrix” does NOT mean “equal redeemer”!! It means that Mary COOPERATED with the grace of God and with the will of God to bring the Redeemer (Christ) into the world; at the Annunciation (Lk.1:38) Mary freely cooperated in giving the Second Person of the Trinity his human body which is the very instrument of redemption, as Scripture tells us: “We have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all” (Heb.10:10).

The prefix “co” in the title Coredemptrix does not mean “equal to” but rather “with”, coming from the Latin word cum. The Marian title Coredemptrix never places Mary on a level of equality with her Divine Son, Jesus Christ. Rather it refers to Mary’s unique human participation which is completely secondary and subordinate to the redeeming role of Jesus, who alone is true God and true Man.**
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Yes, but why declare this as a dogmatic statement? It doesn’t truly further our understanding or state a truth about Christ…it simply serves to confuse and divide. If an idea of Marianism doesn’t point to Christ is it worthwhile? I can just see our “devotion to Mary is necessary for salvation” crowd running amok with this if it’s declared a dogma of the faith.
 
I love conspiracy theories, all who adhere to these random beliefs that there is more to the secret or the vatican is hiding something is in grave error.

“by their works you shall know them” - show me what Paul VI, JP II and Benedict XVI has done wrong ? Paul VI against all popularity AFFIRMED a negative stance on one of the greatest threats to our modern society, contraception. JP II, how many people were converted by love and charity under his pontificate? His words touched so many people and he exemplified the gospel so truly in many ways.

Benedict XVI, we are blessed to have him, he has a great mind, very humble, no proud statements and is philosophically, theologically and spiritually very secure to lead us.

Remember that Jesus promised to be with His Church until the end of time, if someone wants to claim that the Vatican is misleading us with doctrinal errors, then they are contradicting scriptures.
 
I find it totally amusing to see so many people discussing authoritatively that which they know nothing about.
Prayers & Blessings
Deacon Ed B
 
Well I guess, IF there was more to the third secret they are keeping it b/c they know best…Like our government wouldn’t tell everyone that some horrible disaster was going to happen…like a huge asteroid was coming to destroy the earth and there is nothing they can do. To tell the public would cause mass panic and violence. If you can’t do anything about it then why cause that much problem!

Someone said that Pope John Paul talked about the third secret and mentioned continents being flooded with water, millions of people dying in an instant…No sense in releasing that if there is nothing we can do. If we need to know they will let us know

and if you know me then you’ll know that is very hard for me to accept b/c I am extremely curious lol but I will accept the authorities’ decision since it is their responsibility.
 
saint_rafael said:
He did read the secret. It is a historical fact that he was the secreatary of Cardinal Bea. Look it Up!

The very fact that he left the Holy Priesthood and has written books against John Paul II of blessed memory, creates a situation in which I don’t want to read what he has written and trust his words even less.
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