New Catholic - Cafeteria Catholics?

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

Thank you for your opinion. I’m sure you’ll understand that I choose to ignore it.

**I don’t understand why you would choose to ignore it. Why would anyone profess to believe with their bodies minds and souls all that the Catholic Church teaches when they don’t?

As a convert myself I cannot imagine saying the Creed if I did not believe it. And I certainly can’t imagine choosing to become Catholic if I did not believe it.

I think it can be compared to marriage. I don’t think it would be wise to make a decision to marry someone that you didn’t fully love and believe in. So how can it be wise to enter the catholic Church without that same love and belief?**

 

[Peach0218]

**I don’t understand why you would choose to ignore it. Why would anyone profess to believe with their bodies minds and souls all that the Catholic Church teaches when they don’t?

As a convert myself I cannot imagine saying the Creed if I did not believe it. And I certainly can’t imagine choosing to become Catholic if I did not believe it.

I think it can be compared to marriage. I don’t think it would be wise to make a decision to marry someone that you didn’t fully love and believe in. So how can it be wise to enter the catholic Church without that same love and belief?**

I agree. Receiving the Eucharist and professing the Creed are statements of belief, acceptance, and unity with the Church. Grandfather’s post was not intended to be offensive. It was simply meant to point out that it is illogical to profess through word and action that you believe in/agree with something if you don’t.

That being said, it’s natural that you might have questions about certain tenets of the faith but still feel Jesus calling you to His church. It is the spirit with which you approach these questions that really matters. Try not to be suspicious and dismissive of the parts you don’t understand. Jennifer makes a great point about searching for answers and praying for God to conform your will to His.

Personally, I am a cradle Catholic, but I definitely didn’t understand church teachings for much of my life (b/c my family is basically non practicing). It took a powerful encounter with Jesus during my college years to bring me back to a relationship with Him. I felt His call in my heart first, and I was then able to pose my questions to a brilliant priest (himself a convert) and begin several years of reading and study. That’s how I got started in the process of actually becoming Catholic I really feel passionately about continuing to explore, trusting God, and not letting yourself get in His way.

Feel free to PM me if you’d like book recommendations. I’m sure there is a thread on here somewhere with a list as well.

 

[HannahLisa]

My parents have remarked to me that they see a double standard in all religions, and that double standard is this:

Converts are expected to fully adhere to all the required teachings of the faith. For Catholicism, this means everything. People raised in a particular faith, though, can in a sense get away with not following everything, or even not knowing what they supposedly believe.

I’m not Catholic because I do not agree with all the Church’s teachings. If I’m going to be Catholic, I’m going to agree with all the teachings or at least accept the ones I don’t understand. I’m not at that point right now. When you look at everyday cradle Catholics, however, there are quiet a few who have no idea what the Church says and so do what they like in ignorance.

To the OP: It seems like you’ve already figured out that you’re where you’re supposed to be. May God bless you!!

 

[historyb]

Hi - I just converted last year, my DH was raised Catholic and we’re actively raising our little ones Catholic.

One of the things since I converted that I continue to struggle with is when I disagree with some of the teachings of the Church. Not where I know & agree with the teachings, and try my best to follow them - that’s different. Where I know and disagree with them and don’t really want to change my view/behavior to be in compliance. I think about what I will/am teaching my sons, and for some of these issues, I’m not ashamed of what I believe. In a way I see the Church’s beliefs as the ideal, but that we were given free will, and we know in our heart if what we are doing/believing is against God’s will. I don’t know - I’m very confused!

Are there teachings of the Church that you disagree with/don’t follow? How do you reconcile being Catholic without following 100% of the teachings? Whether they are small (say, fasting or attending a Holy Day of Obligation) or large (sex, birth control, divorce), can you be a good Catholic and not obey 100% of the teachings?

Please, no flame/blame. I know we all do the best we can - since we are a somewhat anonymous forum, I’d like to hear what you really do, rather than what you publicly say you do.

Thanks for your openness!

Thank you for the (name removed by moderator)ut. I talked with DH about it tonight - I think in some areas I may never agree with the Church. Maybe it’s because I’m coming into this as an adult, maybe it is because I was a devout Christian before I became Catholic… but it is strange to see things that I was taught are fine, even healthy (e.g. masturbation, sex within a marriage not intended for procreation). When I search my heart, and I think of what I know about the Bible, I think of Christ’s teachings and the 10 commandments, and those are what I know God wants for us to follow and where he wants us to focus. Part of humility is obedience, but is it obedience to the Church, or to God? In most of my life, I would say both are the same. But I think you can be a good Christian and a good Catholic and still disagree with the Church on some issues.

Some of the rest of it I want to follow, and some of it I just don’t get, no matter how logical the Church’s rules may seem. I do feel that some of the teachings are out of step with Christian life, but I’m at the same time glad that the Church is more conservative than most of society. It is a comfort to know that Her teachings are something to strive for.

I don’t know if I’m making sense. But I think this is a useful dialog and I hope that others will chime in too. Thank you –

I can say there are things I don’t agree with. One is the overboardness to the saints and Mary that catholics seem to lean toward, saying that musims have the same God as Christians; however I did convert as an Adult and I always say to people I am a Christian first and Catholic second. I have been away many times from the Church and came back, that may happen again I suspect.

The extra-Biblical stuff does naw at me sometimes, the reason I went back this time was to create unity in my household, I am trying though.

 

[anna1978]

Countrymom, I converted in 1989 for ONE reason: I came to believe that the Catholic Church is the Church Jesus founded through Peter!

Nothing else mattered! I didn’t even know ‘the rules’, and didn’t read a Cathechism until about 10 years later. To me, it’s not about the rules, it’s about following Christ. And yes, there ARE things I simply cannot wrap my mind round, like why masturbation and sex-without-finishing-in-the-vagina is wrong, to me, we waited until our marriage with having sex, now having sex is our ‘gift’ to eachother and we do in the bedroom what we want! Yes, I’ve read all the books, heard all the reasons…but to me they just sound contrived and hollow, if others believe it…great…but like you, I can’t. At least we didn’t have sex before marriage and at least we don’t contracept. If God has a problem with my views, I’ll answer to Him one day…but I just can’t believe He’s that petty and that concerned about what people get upto in bed… So, I understand you! On this board not a lot of people will agree with us though…

Oh, and as an ex-Mennonite: for me growing up ‘marriage’ was the coming together of two bodies and BECOMING ONE FOREVER! So, I don’t agree with annullments: you had sex, you’re ONE, end of story…even Jesus said He didn’t agree with divorce…So those are the two major things that after almost 20 years I still can’t agree with!

 

[jwashu]

*Another teaching that I struggle with is the concept of transubstantiation. Actually, I don’t even bother to struggle with it. How people can believe that a priest, by saying a few magic words, can change bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ is beyond me. I respect the fact that people can believe what they want to believe, but personally, I find it silly. *

Before I truly started to consider becoming Catholic I had these same feelings… deep in prayer one night I asked, how can I believe this, in pretty much the same statements you made above… I got an answer. Read the book of John, reseach the ECF and ask God what He wants you to believe about Real Presence.

My answer, which may be of help was this - Was I questioning God? The Priest has no power except from Him, was I questioning His ability, the Creator of the Universe, to make these the Body and Blood? and how was it that I could even question something I truly didn’t understand nor had made a real effort to understand…

I made that effort, I believe and I feel the strength and grace of our Savior everytime I take recieve the Eucharist.

In regards to other areas there are teachings that I struggle with. As a former Protestant and Counselor who actively encouraged birth control and masturbation for the enchancement of fidelity and chastity the Church’s teachings are very foregin.

However through years of study I have found Her teachings to be solid, to be correct. I may have believed one thing all my life but when I found out why the Church believed something… I knew it was correct. Thus my wife and I are studying JPII’s Theology of the body… it’s truly amazing. I may not agree with everthing but as I said at Confirmation - I accept the entire teachings of the Holy Catholic Church.

Yes we will all fail, we will all make mistake but through His Grace we pick ourselves up and try again. Salvation is a journey and there are probably some teachings it will take us years to understand. I believe what Christ wants from us is to make an effort, to understand and to follow him. If we focus on Him then many of those teachings we don’t understand or agree with will eventually make sense.

Joe

 

[kage_ar]

Adult convert here, and I converted because Christ led me to study study study - in fact, I converted many years before my husband did.

If I did not believe all that the Church teaches, I would not have converted - for me it would have been a lie. Did I wrestle with some teachings and issues - yup. My premise was one of us has to be wrong - me or the Catholic Church. I am one person who has a handful of decades experience - the Church is 2000 years old. She gets the benefit of the doubt based on that alone. Now, after a good decade plus in the Church, I can say that She is right 110% of the time

 

[newbetx]

Hi - I just converted last year, my DH was raised Catholic and we’re actively raising our little ones Catholic.

One of the things since I converted that I continue to struggle with is when I disagree with some of the teachings of the Church. Not where I know & agree with the teachings, and try my best to follow them - that’s different. Where I know and disagree with them and don’t really want to change my view/behavior to be in compliance. I think about what I will/am teaching my sons, and for some of these issues, I’m not ashamed of what I believe. In a way I see the Church’s beliefs as the ideal, but that we were given free will, and we know in our heart if what we are doing/believing is against God’s will. I don’t know - I’m very confused!

Are there teachings of the Church that you disagree with/don’t follow? How do you reconcile being Catholic without following 100% of the teachings? Whether they are small (say, fasting or attending a Holy Day of Obligation) or large (sex, birth control, divorce), can you be a good Catholic and not obey 100% of the teachings?

Please, no flame/blame. I know we all do the best we can - since we are a somewhat anonymous forum, I’d like to hear what you really do, rather than what you publicly say you do.

Thanks for your openness!

It took me 20 years after my conversion to come around on somethings! YOU ARE NOT ALONE. Don’t worry about it so much. Many here claim they can follow 100% of everything. Eventhough some don’t understand it, they can follow it. For the rest of us mear mortals (or morons) some think we should be shown the door.

I’ve been told (an I’m banking on this) the Church is patient. Pope JP II even referenced “The law of gradualness” or something. I’ve got to go look that up. One can NOT possibly accept all the teachings at one time. The Catholic Faith is TOO rich for that. As a “Cafeteria Catholic” myself, I understand. What we can’t do, is actively go against the teachings of the Church without attempting to understand the reasons behind them. For that we are granted time to study and pray. Personally, I can’t accept something that doesn’t make sense to me. I finally got off my behind and started studying things that I dissagreed with. Score today? Church 12, Newbetx 0. Everything is reasonably explainable. Yep, they don’t just make this stuff up.

So, if you find yourself in the Cafeteria, come on over to my table and we can chat. Together we can find the door to the banquet hall!

I will say that one thing that has led me to understand more than I ever thought I could is Theology of the Body. To me, it is a work that pulls everything together.

PM me anytime!

 

[Lhhs]

What is the definition of “good Catholic”?
I think that is a good place to start.

can you be a good Catholic and not obey 100% of the teachings?
!

 

[fellowChristian]

Do you think that when Moses came down the mountain all the people jumped for joy at the 10 Commandments?

God gives us these rules for a good reason.

What would happen if we had no laws?

Chaos.

Would we be happy?

No.

God wants us to be happy.

Hence the rules.

You can’t disagree with things you don’t understand or know.
It’s like a child saying he doesn’t like salmon when he’s never even tasted it.

 

[rayne89]

It is the physical transformation from bread and wine to the Body and Blood of Christ that I can’t believe.

Well you’re not the only one who has had difficulty believing.

1. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats of this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh."
2. The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “**How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”
   ** 53. So Jesus said to them, "**Very truly, I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
   ** 54. **Those who eat my flesh and drink my blood have eternal life, and I will raise them up on the last day;
3. for my flesh is true food and my blood is true drink.
4. Those who eat my flesh and drink my blood abide in me, and I in them.
   ** 57. Just as the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever eats me will live because of me.
5. This is the bread that came down from heaven, not like that which your ancestors ate, and they died. But the one who eats this bread will live forever."
6. He said these things while he was teaching in the synagogue at Capernaum.
7. When many of his disciples heard it, they said, "This teaching is difficult; who can accept it?"
   61.** But Jesus, being aware that his disciples were complaining about it, said to them, "Does this offend you?
   ** 62. Then what if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before?
8. It is the spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
9. But among you there are some who do not believe." For Jesus knew from the first who were the ones that did not believe, and who was the one that would betray him.
10. And he said, “For this reason I have told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted by the Father.”
11. **Because of this many of his disciples turned back and no longer went about with him.
    ** 67. So Jesus asked the twelve, “**Do you also wish to go away?”
12. Simon Peter answered him, "Lord, to whom can we go? You have the words of eternal life.**

As you can see from the Bible many left because of this teaching. You are trying to understand the divine with a mind that is human. Doubt is understandable. But I assure belief in the Eucharist is not silly. And why anyone would join a church when they believe the teachings are “silly” or worse “scary” is beyond my understanding.

 

[surfinpure]

When my husband and I converted four years ago, we did so based on the profound realization that the Catholic Church has the only real authority to teach faith and morals and to interpret Sacred Scripture. With that comes an understanding that we surrender our own preferences and our own opinions about those matters. We are highly fallible, but the teachings of the Church are infallible. We are incapable of making moral determinations on our own. Therefore, I cannot trust myself to say, “This is the way it is or ought to be,” because there is nothing to stand on there. I am not the judge, God is. He has given us His beautiful Truth in Scripture and the Magisterium, and if we choose to become Catholic, we accept the entire Truth, not merely pieces of it.

I understand what it’s like to struggle with certain doctrines. For a while after my conversion I had to accept that our reverence to the Blessed Virgin Mary was not worship, because I could not shake the Protestant notions I had been fed. Through years of prayer and blind faith, the Holy Spirit gradually opened my eyes and warmed my heart to loving the Holy Mother, and the process continues today. I know I am not yet where the saints are, but I am far from where I was.

So I encourage you, even if you do not understand, to humble yourself before God and accept what He has revealed through His Church. It may take some time for you to “own” it, but do not write it off because it is difficult. The laws He has given us are not ideals, any more than heaven is an ideal. If we truly wish to be saints – and only saints get into Heaven! – then we must submit ourselves to the higher authority and obey, and trust that faith and understanding will follow in God’s time.

 

[nobeerinheaven]

Can you be a good Catholic and not obey 100% of the teachings?

Absolutely not. Formal heresy - knowingly dissenting from the Church - results in latae sentiae, or automatic, excommunication (this is different from material heresy, where one has erroneous beliefs but doesn’t know it).

One cannot be at dissonance with the Church on any of her teachings without serious sin, and serious problems.

 

[onetimeposter]

Absolutely not. Formal heresy - knowingly dissenting from the Church - results in latae sentiae, or automatic, excommunication (this is different from material heresy, where one has erroneous beliefs but doesn’t know it).

One cannot be at dissonance with the Church on any of her teachings without serious sin, and serious problems.

So, people are robots…we cant follow our conscience?..Ive read a blurb about our conscience in the catechism…it plays a big role.

I think you can disagree with the Church and be a good Catholic. Didn’t the Catholic Church insist that the sun revolved around the earth and that the earth was flat…well, back in the day, if someone disagreed with that…did that make them a bad catholic worthy of ex-communication?

Let’s be reasonable.

 

[surfinpure]

So, people are robots…we cant follow our conscience?..Ive read a blurb about our conscience in the catechism…it plays a big role.

Read anything about “formation of conscience” lately? A poorly formed conscience is like a map of a flat Earth. It’ll lead you right off the edge and straight down.

 

[onetimeposter]

Read anything about “formation of conscience” lately? A poorly formed conscience is like a map of a flat Earth. It’ll lead you right off the edge and straight down.

Yes, but what about when the Church IS wrong…like when the Church thought the world was flat…

 

[surfinpure]

Yes, but what about when the Church IS wrong…like when the Church thought the world was flat…

An excellent question. We must never confuse infallibility with impeccability. The Church is only infallible in matters of faith and morals. Seeing as how the shape of the earth falls into neither category, nobody could ever be called a heretic for disagreeing about such a thing. God never promised that Peter would be impeccable.

 

[fear_n0_evil]

Yes, but what about when the Church IS wrong…like when the Church thought the world was flat…

When did the Church teach the world is flat???..The Galileo incident, or the Copernican Revolution was about heliocentricity, Heliocentricity is a reference system where the sun is at the center. I am sure you are not refering to Galileo. Not to be off topic but I would like to know if the Church taught this because as a new Catholic ( second year ) I would question the very thing that attracted and secured me as one of the faithful, that being — Church Authority.
I love this Authority because in cases of moral ambiguity I find a ROCK Solid insitution to guide and teach me the Right way to live. Ways I could never take hold of as a sola scriptura post modern xtian. So please tell me when the Church taught the earth is flat -----my faith is now in question.

 

[surfinpure]

When did the Church teach the world is flat???..The Galileo incident, or the Copernican Revolution was about heliocentricity, Heliocentricity is a reference system where the sun is at the center. I am sure you are not refering to Galileo. Not to be off topic but I would like to know if the Church taught this because as a new Catholic ( second year ) I would question the very thing that attracted and secured me as one of the faithful, that being — Church Authority.
I love this Authority because in cases of moral ambiguity I find a ROCK Solid insitution to guide and teach me the Right way to live. Ways I could never take hold of as a sola scriptura post modern xtian. So please tell me when the Church taught the earth is flat -----my faith is now in question.

Refer to my last post. The barque of Peter is not so feeble as to go astray because one man – even a pope – accepts or teaches some false scientific theory. I believe you are correct about the Church never teaching the “flat Earth,” but even if it had at some point, that would not fall under the heading of “faith and morals,” and therefore would be innocuous.

Even through persecution and corruption, the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church has never, not even once, erred in matters of faith and morals. That is why we are Catholic.

 

[fear_n0_evil]

Whew!!