New converts confessing abortion

[VivienneJ]

It is question of when the person was baptized. A question was the* first* baptism valid. If it was and the second was thus either a mistaken attempt to baptize or a conditional baptism --the mortal sins still need to be confessed.

And that should have been determined by the priest who baptised her. If her Catholic baptism was her first baptism because the one in her protestant church was deemed invalid, then all her sins prior to baptism have already been forgiven and do not need further confession. If her Catholic baptism was a conditional baptism her priest should have ensured that she made her confession.

Either way, the only person who should be asking about whether this is a matter for confession is the convert herself, not a friend (unless she has turned to this friend for advice) and the answers should be sought from the priest who baptised her (admitted her to the Catholic church) not anonymous people on the internet who have no way of knowing the facts.

 

[jecook]

With the March for Life looming large, our conversation turned to abortion and the Women of Grace episodes on EWTN with Rachel’s Vineyard representative Fr. Ben Cameron. We simply talked about the issue. I wasn’t trying to be her “conscience”, as I can only be my own. As she is relatively new to the faith I was trying to give her my best advice. Abortion is, along with murder, the most grievous of offenses to Our Lord. I was only suggesting that she make sure her information was correct, that’s all.

 

[triumphguy]

It is question of when the person was baptized. A question was the* first* baptism valid. If it was and the second was thus either a mistaken attempt to baptize or a conditional baptism --the mortal sins still need to be confessed.

And this issue was up to the priest to deal with during the RCIA process.

Parish priests take this issue really seriously, which is why you have to fill in all the forms in RCIA.

And since he baptized this person he must have decided that the first baptism (if there was one) was not valid (most likely because it did not use the Trinitarian formula).

 

[jecook]

It is my understanding that she has never confessed this particular sin ever, to anyone. I was only thinking that at some point it would have been included in an initial talk with an RCIA priest or a subsequent priest. If I wrong, then I am wrong.

 

[triumphguy]

With the March for Life looming large, our conversation turned to abortion and the Women of Grace episodes on EWTN with Rachel’s Vineyard representative Fr. Ben Cameron. We simply talked about the issue. I wasn’t trying to be her “conscience”, as I can only be my own. As she is relatively new to the faith I was trying to give her my best advice. Abortion is, along with murder, the most grievous of offenses to Our Lord. I was only suggesting that she make sure her information was correct, that’s all.

But if you are not careful you could also end up unsettling, upsetting, or unbalancing a person who has already been validly forgiven of all her sins, and who is trying to start a new life in Christ.

And if the person has ANY questions about the validity or not of her baptism then she needs to talk to the priest.

 

[Bookcat]

And this issue was up to the priest to deal with during the RCIA process.

Parish priests take this issue really seriously, which is why you have to fill in all the forms in RCIA.

And since he baptized this person he must have decided that the first baptism (if there was one) was not valid (most likely because it did not use the Trinitarian formula).

Yes but Priests or those involved in RCIA can make mistakes…

On the lists I have found – Church of Christ is noted as valid or at least one to look into the specifics.

 

[jecook]

Agreed. Thank you.

 

[jecook]

I’ve never seen an RCIA questionnaire. What questions are asked? Do they ask about various sins of the past or just about your religious background? Thanks.

 

[Bookcat]

But if you are not careful you could also end up unsettling, upsetting, or unbalancing a person who has already been validly forgiven of all her sins, and who is trying to start a new life in Christ.

Yes that too is a good point.

Prudence in how such is approached is important.

 

[Bookcat]

I’ve never seen an RCIA questionnaire. What questions are asked? Do they ask about various sins of the past or just about your religious background? Thanks.

NO they do not ask about sins.

 

[Bookcat]

And this issue was up to the priest to deal with during the RCIA process.

Parish priests take this issue really seriously, which is why you have to fill in all the forms in RCIA.

And since he baptized this person he must have decided that the first baptism (if there was one) was not valid (most likely because it did not use the Trinitarian formula).

Yes such is usually taken quite seriously

Yes but Priests or those involved in RCIA can make mistakes…

On the lists I have found – Church of Christ is noted as valid or at least one to look into the specifics.

 

[jecook]

As a cradle Catholic who returned devoutly to the faith almost five years ago, there is much to learn, and I am like a sponge that wants to soak it all in. I am so serious about my own path to eternal salvation that I pray wholeheartedly for all those I love to have the same beautiful journey with which I have been gifted. I think it’s always better to be on the safe side of forgiveness and every time I recollect a past sin that was buried deep within, that has never been confessed, I confess it at the next opportunity, as has been suggested by all the priests who hear my confessions. Amazing, the feeling of lightness when I remember and then confess the sin. Some of these I had forgotten for decades. The sacrament of Penance is just wonderful.

 

[Bookcat]

If one remembers a mortal sin --that was not confessed (a forgotten mortal sin) from after ones valid baptism --ones is obliged yes to confess it in the next confession.

 

[VivienneJ]

And this issue was up to the priest to deal with during the RCIA process.

Parish priests take this issue really seriously, which is why you have to fill in all the forms in RCIA.

And since he baptized this person he must have decided that the first baptism (if there was one) was not valid (most likely because it did not use the Trinitarian formula).

It is my understanding that she has never confessed this particular sin ever, to anyone. I was only thinking that at some point it would have been included in an initial talk with an RCIA priest or a subsequent priest. If I wrong, then I am wrong.

She did not and does not need to confess this particular sin, nor any other, mortal or venial committed before her baptism, because, as noted above, her priest baptised her on admission to the Catholic Church.

But if you are not careful you could also end up unsettling, upsetting, or unbalancing a person who has already been validly forgiven of all her sins, and who is trying to start a new life in Christ.

This ^ concerns me deeply.

I’ve never seen an RCIA questionnaire. What questions are asked? Do they ask about various sins of the past or just about your religious background? Thanks.

No no way do the RCIA forms ask about your past sins those would be dealt with exactly as they are for a cradle Catholic being confirmed, in the confessional, not on some form that anyone could read! But you do need to say if you have been baptised and into which church, then you need to produce the original, or certified copy of your baptism certificate so that the priest can make sure that the church that baptised you gave you a valid baptism.

On the lists I have found – Church of Christ is noted as valid or at least one to look into the specifics.

…and on looking into the particular Church of Christ, based on the certificate presented the priest baptised this lady, thereby washing away ALL her prior sins.

I would hope she knows she has been forgiven, but that does not mean that she does not still feel regret for her action, and particularly at this time, with abortion and the March for Life looming so huge - she does not need to be given a dose of guilt to add to whatever deep feelings she is experiencing.

 

[Bookcat]

…and on looking into the particular Church of Christ, based on the certificate presented the priest baptised this lady, thereby washing away ALL her prior sins.

.

I was not there --so I do not know.

The list I found notes their baptism is valid not invalid.

If it was a valid baptism that took place in that community the person needs to confess their mortal sins. If there was doubt about the baptism the person also needs to confess their mortals sins (as I noted above --noting the conditional baptism)

Only if the first baptism was invalid. Would a confession not be in order.

 

[triumphguy]

I’ve never seen an RCIA questionnaire. What questions are asked? Do they ask about various sins of the past or just about your religious background? Thanks.

they ask about prior/current marriage situation, and your sacramental history, the church where any sacraments took place, and certification form the church regarding any sacraments. So they get a pretty thorough understanding of the what, where, when and how.

As to sins - that’s left up to the pastoral care of the priest.

 

[Bookcat]

…and on looking into the particular Church of Christ, based on the certificate presented the priest baptised this lady, thereby washing away ALL her prior sins.

.

I was not there --so I do not know.

The list I found notes their baptism is valid not invalid.

If it was a valid baptism that took place in that community the person needs to confess their mortal sins. If there was doubt about the baptism the person also needs to confess their mortals sins (as I noted above --noting the conditional baptism)

Only if the first baptism was invalid. Would a confession not be in order.

 

[Quaesitor]

I am not attempting to judge this person,

By asking this question here, about this situation, it shows that you are, at least to me, judging this person. As others finally discuss around the 3rd page of comments, you can only do more harm by “suggesting” this to this poor woman. I wish people would stop assuming others are incapable of doing the right thing and always have to make rude comments about what other aught or should do. Isn’t it more Christ-Like to assume that the people responsible for assuring her entrance to the Catholic faith did it properly rather than improperly?

I’m sorry for being abrupt about this but I get really tired of things like this. It says in the bible all over the place to not judge others, and I think our world would be a way better place if people would stop doing it. I see so many people leave their respective faiths because they judge others about things they really can’t even begin to understand or relate too. It makes me sick.

 

[Bookcat]

I was not there --so I do not know.

The list I found notes their baptism is valid not invalid.

If it was a valid baptism that took place in that community the person needs to confess their mortal sins. If there was doubt about the baptism the person also needs to confess their mortals sins (as I noted above --noting the conditional baptism)

Only if the first baptism was invalid. Would a confession not be in order.

And the answer may be that the “Church of Christ” in question – may have no baptism or an invalid baptism. There seems there can be “more than one” that go by a name like that and I have found one of them being listed as no baptism or invalid baptism…